>> WE ARE RECORDING.
>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.
THE MARCH 22, 2023, MEETING OF
THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, CITY
LIGHT AND TECHNOLOGY COMMITTEE
BOARD WILL COME TO ORDER.
I'M SARA NELSON, CHAIR OF THE
COMMITTEE.
LET'S SEE.
COUNCILMAN SAWANT HAS ASKED TO
BE EXCUSED.
CITY CLERK PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
(ROLL CALL)
>> THREE PRESENT, ONE EXCUSED,
ONE ABSENT.
>> OKAY.
WE HAVE TWO ITEMS TODAY.
THE FIRST IS A ROUND TABLE
MEETING FOR ATTENTION AND
SUPPORT AND THE SECOND ITEM IS A
BRIEFING DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE
VOTE ON COUNCIL BILL 120532
WHICH WOULD ALLOW THE BOARD TO
JOIN WRAP, THE WESTERN RESOURCE
ADEQUACY PROGRAM.
WE WILL STEP INTO THE PUBLIC
COMMENT PORTION OF OUR VIDEO.
>> HELLO SEATTLE, WE ARE THE
EMERALD CITY, THE CITY OF
FLOWERS AND THE CITY OF GOOD
WILL BUILT ON INDIGENOUS LAND,
TRADITION TERRITORY OF THE COS
LIAS PEOPLE.
THE CITY COUNCIL WELCOMES REMOTE
PUBLIC COMMENT.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE A
SPEAKER AND PROVIDE A VERBAL
PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU MAY REGISTER
TWO HOURS PRIOR TO OUR MEETING
VIA THE SEATTLE CITY COUNCIL
WEBSITE.
HERE'S INFORMATION ABOUT THE
PUBLIC COMMENT PROCEEDINGS.
SPEAKERS ARE CALLED ON THE ORDER
IN WHICH THEY REGISTERED ON THE
COUNCIL'S WEBSITE.
EACH SPEAKER MUST CALL FROM THE
PHONE NUMBER THEY USED TO
REGISTER ONLINE.
IF YOU DID NOT RECEIVE AN E-MAIL
CONFIRMATION, PLEASE CHECK YOUR
SPAM OR JUNK MAIL FOLDERS.
A REMINDER: THE SPEAKER MEETING
ID IS DIFFERENT FROM THE GENERAL
LISTEN LINE MEETING ID PROVIDED
ON THE AGENDA.
ONCE A SPEAKER'S NAME IS CALLED,
THE SPEAKER'S MICROPHONE WILL BE
UNMUTED AND AN AUTOMATIC PROMPT
WILL SAY THE HOST WOULD LIKE YOU
TO UNMUTE YOUR MICROPHONE.
THATS YOUR CUE THAT IT SIS YOUR
TURN TO SPEAK.
CHANNEL BRAID CAST OR THROUGH
THE LISTENING LINE OPTION LISTED
ON THE AGENDA.
THE COUNCIL RESERVES THE RIGHT
TO ELIMINATE PUBLIC COMMENT IF
THE SYSTEM IS BEING ABUSED OR IF
THE PROCESS IMPEDES ITS ABILITY
TO CONDUCT BUSINESS ON BEHALF OF
THE CITY.
ANY OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE THAT'S
DISRUPTIVE TO THESE PROCEEDINGS
MAY LEAD TO THE SPEAKER BEING
MUTED BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
OUR HOPE IS TO PROVIDE AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR PRODUCTIVE
DISCUSSIONS THAT WILL ASSIST OUR
ORDERLY CONSIDERATION OF ISSUES
BEFORE THE COUNCIL.
THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD IS NOW
OPEN.
WE WILL BEGIN WITH THE FIRST
SPEAKER ON THE LIST.
PLEASE REMEMBER TO PRESS 125R 6
AFTERSTAR 6
AFTER YOU HEAR THE PROMPT OF YOU
HAVE BEEN UNMUTED.
THANK YOU, SEATTLE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
SO WE WILL CALL ON THE IN-PERSON
COMMENTER FIRST AND REMINDER
THAT WE ARE COMMENTING ON ITEMS
ON THE AGENDA.
IF YOU DON'T PLAN ON SPEAKING TO
ONE OF THE TWO ITEMS, YOU'RE
WELCOME TO LISTEN OR CHANGE YOUR
MIND ON WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO
TALK ABOUT BUT THAT'S OUR
PRACTICE FOR THIS COMMITTEE.
THE FIRST PERSON ON OUR LIST IS
ANGIE GERALD AND EVERYONE WILL
HAVE TWO MINUTES TO SPEAK.
>> GOOD MORNING, MY NAME IS
ANGIE GERALD.
THANK YOU FOR HOSTING THIS ROUND
TABLE TODAY.
MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE BEEN SMALL
LANDLORDS FOR 20 YEARS AND THIS
IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE SEEN
CITY COUNCIL INVITE SMALL
HOUSING PROVIDERS TO THE TABLE.
I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF A FRIEND
WHO HAD TO WORK TODAY.
pCHARLOTTE IS A SINGLE MOTHER WO
TEACHES MUSIC TO CHILDREN.
SHE'S PROVIDED AFFORDABLE
HOUSING TO A DIVERSE GROUP OF
PEOPLE AND THE VAST MAJORITY
HAVE BEEN WONDERFUL, HOWEVER,
SHE'S ALSO HAD TWO DIRE
SITUATIONS WHERE ONE HEN GANTT
BEGAN HARASSING AND THREATENING
ANOTHER TO THE LEVEL THAT POLICE
WERE CALLED.
SHE'S EXPERIENCE [INDISCERNIBLE]
FOR SEVERAL YEARS, CHARLOTTE
TRIED REACHING OUT TO COUNCIL IN
CONSTRUCTIVE WAYS, INCLUDING
ORGANIZING A VIDEO RECORDED
MEETING IN 2021 WITH COUNCIL
MEMBER MORALES ALONG WITH
CAREFULLY SUGGESTED REVISIONS TO
MU ANIES CAL CODE WRITTEN BY AN
EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY, ALL TO NO
AVAIL.
SHE'S GLAD THIS ROUND TABLE IS
HAPPENING BUT FOR HER IT'S EH
TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.
BECAUSE OF SEATTLE REGULATIONS,
CHARLOTTE IS PREPARING TO SELL
HER LITTLE PROPERTY AND MOVE HER
DAUGHTER AND BUSINES AND PETS
TO PORTLAND.
SEATTLE'S LOSS.
I HOPE COUNCIL BEGINS A FINKS
LEA RELATIONSHIP WITH HOUSING
PROVIDERS.
WE NEED MORE SEATTLE LIGHTS, NOT
FEWER, TO OFFER STABLE HOUSING
TO OTHERS BUT IT DEPENDS ON
COLLABORATIVE POLICY MAKING.
THANK YOU, AGAIN, FOR HOSTING
THE ROUND TABLE.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ALL RIGHT.
SEEING NO OTHER IN-PERSON
COMMENTERS, WE WILL MOVE TO THE
pREMOTE SPEAKERS.
LET'S SEE.
WE WILL START WITH LESLIE HOGUE,
PLEASE.
HI, I'M SPEAKING ON THE SMALL
HOUSING PROVIDERS.
MY HUHS AND I HAVE BEEN HOUSING
PROVIDERS FOR 30 YEARS.
HE'S A SCULPTOR AND I'M A
GRAPHIC DESIGNER.
WE HAVE WORKED TWO FULL TIME
JOBS ON TOP OF MAINTENANCE
REPAIRS.
WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PROUD OF THE
SERVICE WE PROVIDE AND IRE
APARTMENTS ARE MEL MAINTAINED
AND AFFORDABLE.
WE KNOW OUR TENANTS.
MOST OF THEM ARE LONG TERM.
WE HAVE NEGOTIATED PAYMENT
SCHEDULES, OFFERED WORK FOR RENT
AND EVEN A FEW RENT WAIVERS.
WE HAVE ATTENDED WEDDINGS AND EH
MET NEWBORNS.
WE ARE NOT UNIQUE AMONG SMALL
HOUSING PROVIDERS.
WE HOPED WHEN WE WERE OLDER THAT
RENT WITHOUT SUPPORT US.
WE HAVE NO EMPLOYER BENEFITS OR
PENSIONS.
I'M A CANCER SURVIVOR AND I KNOW
HOW SCARY IT IS TO BE ON THE
EDGE OF LOSING EVERYTHING.
WE'RE IN OUR LATE 60s NOW AND
RELY ON OUR RENTS TO SUPPORT US
BY THE ROOMMATE ADEN DEMME AND
THE FIRST IN TIME RULES WHICH
ALLOW [INDISCERNIBLE] IN
ADDITION TO TWO SMALL BUILDINGS
WITH ONE HOUSING[INDISCERNIBLE]
TWO SMALL BUILDINGS WITH ONE
HOUSING UNIT IN EACH.
WE SOLD OUR DUPLEX NOT TO MAKE
MONEY.
THE TIPPING POINT WAS THE
AVALANCHE OF RESTRICTIVE
LANDLORD TENANT LAWS WHICH TREAT
LANDLORDS AS ENEMIES AND NOT
ALLIES.
THE CITY COULD BENEFIT FROM OUR
EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE.
SMALL LANDLORDS PROVIDE A LOT OF
HOUSING.
IT'S A HUGE UNINTENDED LOSS.
>> THE NEXT TWO UP ARE JENNIFER
AND ADEN.
>> HI, I HOUSE 17 FAMILIES IN
SINGLE FAMILY HOMES MANY IN THE
QUEEN ANNE AND CAPITAL HILL
NEIGHBORHOODS.
pI HOPE THIS IS IF FIRST OF MAN
WONDERFUL DISCUSSION THAT HELP
BRING RESOLUTION TO OUR CITY'S
HOUSING CRISIS.
IT'S GOTTEN REALLY DIFFICULT TO
BE A HOUSING PROVIDE, TO A POINT
WHERE I, LIKE MANY OTHER
PROVIDERS, NO LONGER WANT TO
RENT OUR PROPERTIES.
THERE'S NO CONSEQUENCE WHEN
RESIDENTS DON'T PAY RENT.
FOR EXAMPLE, I HAD A TENANT LAST
MONTH WHO PAID HER RENT 17 DAYS
RATE.
HAD THERE NOT BEEN A DAILY
PENALTY, SHE MIGHT NOT HAVE EVER
PAID AND NOW THE CITY COUNCIL IS
PROPOSING CAPPING LATE FEES TO
$10.
THE CITY COUNCIL IS MISSING THE
POINT THAT HOUSING PROVIDERS AND
TENANTS REACH A FINANCIAL
RELATIONSHIP.
IF TENANTS ARE UPSET ABOUT
PAYING LATE FEES, THEY SHOULD
NOT PAY THE RENT LATE.
IF THIS IS SUCH A PROBLEM, THERE
SHOULD BE RENTAL ASSISTANCE
PROGRAMS OR AN AGENCY THAT CAN
HELP TENANTS WHO NEED FUNDS IN A
PINCH.
THIS ADDITIONAL BURDEN SHOULD
NOT BE PUT ON THE HOUSING
PROVIDERS.
THE RENTAL REGISTRATION AND
INSPECTION ORDINANCE PROGRAM IS
IN SHAMBLES.
THERE'S NO WAY FOR INDIVIDUALS
TO CONTACT THE PROGRAM AND GET
ISSUES RESOLVED.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE PROGRAM SENT ME
A LETTER THREATENING ME WITH A
$30 FINE FOR NOT REGISTERING THE
PROPERTY BUT THE PROPERTY WAS
REGISTERED.
I SENT BACK THE REGISTRATION AND
FOLLOWED UP WITH A PHONE COW CA
[INDISCERNIBLE] ISOLATED
INCIDENTS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
NEXT UP IS ADEN AND THEN JEFF.
>> GOOD MORNING.
MY NAME IS ADEN AND I'M A RENTER
IN DISTRICT SIX.
THI
THANK YOU, SARA, FOR CONVENING
THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR MOM AND POP
LANDLORDS TO ADDRESS THEIR
PROBLEMS THEY CONTINUE TO
ENCOUNTER FROM THE
EVER-INCREASING LANDLORD TENANT
LEGISLATION.
AS YOU CONTINUE TO EXPAND THESE
NEW LAWS, REGULATIONS AND
CONTROL, WE ARE GOING TO
DIMINISH THE MOM AND POP
LANDLORDS TINT AND TAKE
AFFORDABLE PRIVATE HOUSING OFF
THE MARKET.
I AM A SENIOR CITIZEN ON LIMITED
INCOME AND I DEPEND ON MY
HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY
POTENTIAL LANDLORD.
PLEASE STOP THREATENING IT.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
JEFF AND THEN FOLLOWED BY
NELIMA, PLEASE.
JEFF, PRESS STAR 6.
>> HI, MY NAME IS JEFF AND I'M
CALLING IN REGARDS TO THE SMALL
LANDLORD AGENDA ITEM.
I'M A SMALL LANDLORD IN SEATTLE
AND INCREASED REGULATIONS ON MY
ABILITY TO SCREEN TENANTS HAS
LEAD ME TO VACATE AND SELL ONE
RENTAL PROPERTY AND WITHHOLD AN
ACCESSORY UNIT FROM THE MARKET
SO REMOVING TWO HOUSING UNITS
FROM THE MARKET WHICH HARMS THE
SMALL HOUSING SUPPLY AND THE
MORE SMALL LANDLORDS LEAVE, THE
MORE CORPORATE LANDLORDS WILL
COME IN.
IN ONE PARTICULARLY MEMORABLE
CASE, I WAIVED A LATE FEE THREE
MONTHS IN A ROW AND THEN DECIDED
TO CHARGE A LATE FEE AND THE
RENT WAS SUBSEQUENTLY PAID ON
TIME.
I THINK THIS IS A GOOD OUTCOME
FOR ME AND MY RENTER.
IT'S A STABLE, REASONABLE
INTERACTION BETWEEN TWO PARTIES
TO A CONTRACT.
I FACE SEVERE CONSEQUENCES
MISSING MORTGAGE PAYMENTS,
PROPERTY TAXES AND OTHER BILLS
SO I THINK IT'S ASYMMETRIC FOR
LETTING TENANTS OFF THE HOOK.
>> OUR LAST SPEAKER IS NELINA.
THE OTHERS ARE LISTED AS NOT
PRESENT BUT WANTING TO TALK
ABOUT THE TREE ORDINANCE SO
THAT'S A DIFFERENT COMMITTEE,
SO.
>> THANK YOU FOR INCLUDING US
TODAY.
I'M SPEAKING ON THE TOPIC OF
SMALL HOUSE PROGRESS VIEDER.
MY FAMILY AND I OWN ONE SINGLE
FAMILY RENTAL AND WE HAVE RENTED
IT FOR SEVEN YEARS.
WE BOTH WORK FULL TIME JOBS AND
WE'RE PART OF A COMMUNITY, WE
VOLUNTEER FOR THE CITY AND WITH
NONPROFITS.
WE HAVE BEEN FORTUNATE TO HAVE
OUR FAMILY OF FOUR INCLUDING TWO
YOUNG CHILDREN RENT OUR HOME FOR
SEVERAL YEARS.
DURING THIS TIME, WE BUILT A
RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR TENANTS,
RESPOND TO ISSUES RIGHT AWAY AND
ALSO HAVE MADE COSTLY CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDING A ROOF,
GUTTERS, PAINT AND MORE WHICH IS
TOUGH IN SEATTLE'S MARKET.
STILL WE HAVE KEPT THE RENT WAY
BELOW MARKET, $300 TO $700 A
MONTH BECAUSE WE VALUE THESE
TENANTS.
THEY HAVE INFORMED THEM THAT
THEY'RE LIKELY MOVING OUT THIS
SPRING DUE TO THE VAST NUMBER OF
NEW POLICIES ENACTED IN THE CITY
OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS AND THE
SEVERE INCREASED RISK OF BEING A
SMALL LANDLORD, WE CAN SELL THE
PROPERTY WHICH RESULTS IN ONE
LESS AFFORDABLE UNIT AND SINGLE
FAMILY HOME FOR RENTALS IN
SEATTLE OR HIRE A PROPERTY
MANAGER WHICH WILL RESULT IN A
SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN RENT
NEITHER OF WHICH ARE GOOD FOR
RENTERS OR LANDLORDS, REALLY.
WE'RE NOT CORPORATIONS THAT CAN
EASILY ABSORB THE COST OF
POLICIES AND SEATTLE'S RENTAL
POLICIES HAVE RESULTED IN A
SIGNIFICANT LOSS OF RENTAL
PROPERTIES.
I EM EMPLOYER YOU TO LOOKPMPLOR
DATA THAT'S HARMFUL TO THE
COMMUNITY AND LANDLORDS.
WE TREAT OUR TENANTS REALLY
FAIRLY AND WE ASK FOR THE SAME
RESPECT IN RETURN SO WE CAN KEEP
DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UNLESS ANYBODY ELSE IS PRESENT
HERE IN CHAMBERS WANTS TO SPEAK,
WE WILL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT
NOW.
WILL THE CLERK READ ITEM ONE
INTO THE RECORD?
>> SMALL BUSINESS ROUND TABLE,
HOUSING PROVIDERS.
BRIEFING AND DISCUSSION.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WHILE I'M PROVIDING MY OPENING
REMARKS, YOU CAN GET SETTLED.
LET ME CUT TO THE CHASE IN CASE
ANYONE WONDERS WHY ARE WE HAVING
THIS CONVERSATION IN MY
COMMITTEE?
IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.
IT'S BECAUSE SMALL HOUSING
PROVIDERS ARE A CRITICAL
COMPONENT OF SEATTLE'S SMALL
BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND THEY'RE
CRITICAL BECAUSE 50% OF SEATTLE
RESIDENTS ARE RENTERS AND THESE
SMALL BUSINESSES SUPPLY A
SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE BELOW
MARKET RATE HOUSING OPTIONS IN
THE CITY OF SEATTLE AND
INCLUDING MOST OF THE LARGE
MULTIBEDROOM UNITS THAT ARE
AFFORDABLE TO LOW INCOME
FAMILIES OR STUDENTS.
I THINK THAT WE AGREE THAT WE
WANT TO RETAIN THAT HOUSING
STOCK BECAUSE THAT IS IMPORTANT
TO ADVANCING OUR HOUSING
AFFORDABILITY AND
ANTIDISPLACEMENT GOALS AND
CREATING GENERATIONAL WEALTH,
BUT THERE'S EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST
THERE MAY BE A PROBLEM, SO
THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.
THE PANELISTS WILL PRESENT
EVIDENCE SHOWING THAT SMALL
RENTALS OWNED BY THESE SMALL
BUSINESSES REPRESENT A
DECREASING SHARE OF SEATTLE'S
OVERALL RENTAL MARKET AND IN
ADDITION, REGISTRATION IN THE
RENTAL REGISTRATION AND
INSPECTION ORDINANCE OR RIO
PROGRAM DECREASED BY A COMBINED
TOTAL OF 21% IN 2020 AND 2021
EVEN THOUGH THE NUMBER OF UNITS
HAS REMAINED FAIRLY STABLE IN
SEATTLE, SO THE QUESTION IS WHY?
WELL, ACCORDING TO THE LAST TWO
RIO ANNUAL REPORTS, THE DECLINE
IN REGISTERED RENTALS MAY BE
ATTRIBUTED TO MORE RENTAL
PROPERTIES BEING SOLD AND
BECOMING OWNER OCCUPIED OR IT
MAY BE THAT SOME LANDLORDS
SIMPLY DECIDED NOT TO REANY
THEIR REGISTRATIONS DURING THE
PANDEMIC, SO IN OTHER WORDS, WE
DON'T REALLY KNOW.
THIS CONVERSATION TODAY IS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO FILL IN SOME OF
THE GAPS OF OUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT
THIS SECTOR OF THE HOUSING
MARKET AND ALSO SHED LIGHT ON
THE IMPACT OF OPERATING IN
SEATTLE.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING THIS
HERE.
LAST YEAR WE HAD A ROUND TABLE
DISCUSSION WITH SMALL BUSINESSES
TO DISCUSSION THE IMPACTS OF
CRIME AND SO THAT'S WHAT I LIKE
TO DO EVERY NOW AND THEN, BRING
IN PARTS OF MY CON STISTITUENCY
TAKE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.
I ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO HOLD YOUR
QUESTIONS UNTIL THE END, UNTIL
ALL THE PANELISTS HAVE SPOKEN
AND THEN WE'LL GO THROUGH
QUESTIONS.
COUNCIL MEMBER STRAUSS.
>> IT'S GREAT TO SEE AND HEAR A
LOT OF YOU HERE.
I WILL BE TAKING THE REST OF THE
MEETING FROM MY OFFICE.
I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I'M
LISTENING.
I ALSO SEE THERE'S A STAKEHOLDER
REPORT ATTACHED TO THIS
PRESENTATION AS WELL.
I THINK EVERYONE KNOWS I
SPONSORED THAT REQUEST AND THE
FOLLOWUP REQUEST.
I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING HERE,
THERE AREN'T SLIDE NUMBERS ON
THE SLIDES BUT I'M SEEING IT AS
SLIDE FIVE, WHICH IS SUMMARIZING
THE NUMBER OF LAWS PASSED AND
THIS CAN BE CONFUSING FOR PEOPLE
MANAGING THEIR OWN RENTAL
PROPERTIES.
FOR LARGE ORGANIZATIONS, THEY
HAVE LAWYERSE ON STAFF.
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS SUMMARY IS
INCLUSIVE AT THE STATE LEVEL BUT
THAT'S ANOTHER LEVEL OF NEW LAWS
THAT AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS MAYBE
NOT A LAWYER DOESN'T HAVE EASE
OF ACCESS TO UNDERSTANDING AND I
THINK THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT
CRUX HERE BECAUSE I SEE
IMPORTANT PROTECTIONS WITHIN
THIS LIST THAT'S ON SLIDE FIVE
BUT THE LEVEL OF CONFUSION IS
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR
SOMEBODY WHO IS DOING IT
THEMSELVES.
THE OTHER PART I LIKED ABOUT THE
PRESENTATION IS PICTURES OF ALL
THE DUPLEXES THROUGHOUT SEATTLE.
NONCONFORMING IN SOME AREAS, I'M
SURE, BUT DUPLEXES PROVIDE
PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE
IN ONE UNIT, RENT THE OTHER AND
GRADUATE INTO THEIR OWN HOME
THAT DOESN'T HAVE A NEIGHBOR
SHARING A WALL BUT STILL GETTING
TO PROVIDE THAT DUPLEX.
I HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO
LIVE IN A TRIPLEX.
I FOUND IT REALLY LOVELY.
I LIVED IN TWO OTHER REND LESS
THAT HAD PROBABLY NOT LEGAL ADUs
ATTACHED WHICH IS WHY THEY
DIDN'T GET TO RENT IT
SEPARATELY.
IT'S THIS DUPLEX, TRIPLEX, AND
ADUS THAT WILL HELP KEEP
SEATTLITES HOUSED.
I WANTED TO GET THESE COMMENTS
IN.
INTERVIEWS YOURSELVES AND START
IN ON YOUR PRESENTATION.
>> MY NAME IS PAIR LYNNE YIM AND
I'M A SMALL MOM AND POP
LANDLORD.
>> I'M JIM YEARBY, A SMALL
PROPERTY OWNER IN DISTRICT FIVE.
>> PLEASE SPEAK MORE DIRECTLY
INTO YOUR MIC.
>> I'M HERE TO GIVE TESTIMONY.
>> MY NAME IS AYDA CADER IN
DISTRICT FIVE.
>> I'M RIZWAN, I'M A SMALL
PROPERTY OWNER.
>> AND I'M CHRISTOPHER CUTTING,
A SMALL HOUSING PROVIDER AND
RESIDENT OF DISTRICT THREE, ALSO
A LANDLORD AND TENANT LAWYER
PRACTICING IN THIS AREA.
>> THANK YOU FOR SETTING THIS
UP.
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT
SMALL HOUSING PROVIDERS HAVE
BEEN INVITED TO SPEAK ON A PANEL
TYPE OF A FORUM OR OH TO PROVIDE
ANY LONG FORM COMMENTS OR
THAT WE PROVIDE IN OUR MOUSING
MARKET.
THIS IS A CONSTRUCTIVE THING
WE'RE DOING, THANK YOU.
THIS FIRST SLIDE, THESE ARE
PHOTOS OF EXISTING PROPERTIES
THAT FIT INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD
AND THIS EXEMPLIFIES A LOT OF
THE PROPERTIES THAT SMALL
LANDLORDS OWN AND OPERATE IN THE
CITY OF SEATTLE.
SO WHAT IS UNIQUE ABOUT SMALL
LANDLORDS?
WHO ARE WE AND WHY ARE WE HERE?
WE PROVIDE A DIVERSITY OF
HOUSING STOCK.
THERE ARE LOTS OF HOMES THAT ARE
PROVIDED THERE.
A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF BELOW
MARKET RENTALS ARE OWNED AND
OPERATED BY THE SMALL HOUSING
PROVIDERS.
WE TEND TO HAVE STABLE TENANT
PSIS AND LESS FREQUENT TURNOVER.
AS YOU WILL NOTICE ON A LATER
SLIDE, THAT MEANS WE HAVE A
STEEP LEARNING CURVE WHEN EVERY
THREE YEARS OR SO WE HAVE TO GO
BACK AND LOOK AT WHAT'S CHANGED.
WE HAVE FEW OPPORTUNITIES TO
SPREAD RISK AND RISK IS COME ON
FINANCIAL RISK.
THIS IS BASED ON MY PERSONAL
CREDIT SCORE WHETHER I'M ABLE TO
GET A LOAN, A DEFAULT IN THE
MORTGAGE AFFECTS ME TARNALLY.
IN A 2018 STUDY DONE BY THE
UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON, 59% OF
SEATTLE LANDLORDS REPORTED A
TOTAL INCOME OF LESS THAN
$75,000 SO THIS IS REALLY SMALL
SCALE.
WE HAVE LEGAL AND PERSONAL RISKS
AS WELL WITH THE DELAYS TO
RESOLUTION INCREASING COSTS.
THERE'S NO RIGHT TO COUNSEL FOR
HOUSING PROVIDERS AND PERSONAL
RISK, WE DO NOT HAVE THE BUFFER
OF A STAFF TOO HELP US.
WE'RE DOING THIS A LOT
OURSELVES, MANY OF US OPERATE
OUR OWN RENTALS AND THAT MEANS
pWE'RE EXPOSED.
IF THERE'S A PROBLEM THAT ARISES
IN OUR LANDLORD/TENANT
RELATIONSHIP LIVING ON SITE WITH
PEOPLE SHARING THE SAME FOUR
WAIL THAT IS I DO CAN CONTRIBUTE
TO THAT.
GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
MANY OF US LIVE HERE LOCALLY AND
HAVE A CONNECTION TO THE
COMMUNITY.
WE'RE MORE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN
OPERATING OUR RENTALS AND
SELECTING OUR TENANTS.
WE CAN BE NOR FLEXIBLE WITH OUR
SCREENING CRITERIA AND THAT
MEANS THAT WE'RE CONTRIBUTING TO
OUR LOCAL ECONOMY AND RENTAL
SUPPLY.
MANY OF US USE RENTAL HOUSING AS
A MEANS OF AFFORDING OUR OWN
PRIMARY HOMES AND SOME OF US ARE
LANDLORDS OUT OF CIRCUMSTANCES.
THERE MAY BE CHANGING
CIRCUMSTANCE THAT IS LEAD US TO
RENT OUT OUR PROPERTY FOR SOME
TIME.
YOU MOVE OUT OF THE AREA BUT
YOU'RE EXPECTING TO COME BACK.
SOMETIMES MARRIAGE AND DIVORCE
CAN CONTRIBUTE TO THESE CHANGES
WHERE YOU MAY NOT BE LIVING IN
THE SAME HOME BUT EXPECT TO
RETURN SO RENTING IT OUT
PROVIDES AN OPTION THAT WOULD
NOT BE ABLE TO RENTERS.
BECAUSE OF ALL THESE RISKS THAT
WEIGH ON US HEAVILY, WE'RE MORE
LIKELY TO EXIT THE RESIDENTIAL
RENTAL MARKET IF IT GETS TOO
RISKY, UNPREDICTABLE AND ONERUS
AND EXCEEDS OUR CAPACITY TOOUS
AND EXCEEDS OUR CAPACITY TO
ABSORB.
FOR ABOUT 40 YEARS, THERE WERE
EIGHT SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO
LANDLORD-TENANT LAW.
THIS IS AN AVERAGE OF ONE LAW
EVERY FIVE YEARS OR TWO EVERY
DECADE.
THIS SHOWS THE LAST SIX YEARS.
I PUT THIS TOGETHER AND I'M SURE
I MISSED SOME STUFF, TOO, BUT
THIS IS A LOT OF LAWS.
EVERY THREE MONTHS ON AVERAGE WE
HAVE FACED A CHANGE TO THE LEGAL
CIRCUMSTANCE TEA THAT WE HAVE TO
OPERATE IN AND THAT MAKES IT
VERY DIFFICULT TO STAY ON TOP OF
THINGS, AGAIN, IF OUR TURNOVER
IS LOW, WE HAVE A VERY STEEP
LERPING CURARNING CURVE TO GET
WHAT'S CHANGED.
>> YOU DO HAVE WASHINGTON LAWS
LISTED THERE.
>> I DID INCLUDE WASHINGTON
STATE LAWS.
I AVOIDED REDINNED PSIS WHERE
SEATTLE AND WASHINGTONUNDANCIES
SEATTLE AND WASHINGTON PASSED
THE SAME TYPE OF LAWS SO THIS IS
REALLY JUST SEATTLE AND
WASHINGTON STATE SO THERE'S A
PANCAKING EFFECT.
WE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH BOTH
LEVELS OF LAW AND SOMETIMES
THERE ARE INTERACTIONS BETWEEN
LAWS THAT CAN MAKE IT
COMPLICATED TO COMPLY.
THIS SHOWS WE HAVE DONE A LOT
FOR TENANT PROTECTIONS.
THERE'S BEEN A SIGNIFICANT
AMOUNT OF EFFORT PLACED ON THAT
SO NOW WE NEED TOO LOOK AT THIS
FROM A HOUSING AND ECONOMIC
LENS.
IF WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE,
THIS IS SHOWING DATA THAT IS
PULLED FROM THE CITY OF
SEATTLE'S RENTAL REGISTRATION
AND IT'S SHOWING BASICALLY OVER
TIME A SIGNIFICANT LOSS, A NET
LOSS OF 14% OF SEATTLE'S RENTAL
PROPERTIES.
THE TIME POINTS WERE CHOSEN AS
DATA THAT WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO
US FROM THE CITY SO IT'S ABOUT A
FOUR YEAR TIME SPAN.
JULY 2018 WAS THE EARLIEST DATA
AVAILABLE TO US.
WE DID A POLL OF THE MOST RECENT
DATA PRIOR TO THIS PRESENTATION
AND IT'S SHOWING THAT SMALL
LANDLORD REGISTRATION CONTINUE
TO TREND DOWN SO WE HAVE NOT
SEEN THIS TREND LINE REVERSE,
BUT WHAT YOU CAN SEE IS THAT
SMALL RENTAL PROPERTIES REALLY
DO REPRESENT A SIGNIFICANT
NUMBER OF THE REGISTRATIONS AND
A DEPLAINCLINING SHARE OF THE L
MARKET.
WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF
CONSTRUCTION CRANES IN SEATTLE
BUT THE HOMES ADDED HAVE BEEN
COUNTERED BY THE SMALL HOUSES
LEAVING THE MARKET.
SEATTLE HAS BEEN LOSING THOSE
SMALLER PROPERTIES SO THERE'S A
DECREASING SHARE OF SMALL
RENTALS WHILE AN INCREASING
SHARE OF THE LARGER RENTAL
PROPERTIES.
WHAT THAT REPRESENTS IS
LARGER -- THE SMALLER PROPERTIES
TEND TO BE FAMILY-SIZED, TWO OR
MORE BEDROOMS, AND A LOT MORE
DIVERSITY.
THE LARGER RENTALS HAVE STUDIOS
IN ONE BEDROOMS SO THAT'S
CHANGING THE CHARACTER OF OUR
HOUSING MARKET.
WHO WILL BE ABLE TO FIND
HOUSING?
I THINK FAMILIES ARE REALLY
GOING TO HAVE A TOUGH TIME AS WE
LOSE THESE SMALLER RENTALS.
THERE'S ALSO A SHIFT IN
OWNERSHIP PROFILE.
A LOT OF THOSE LARGER PROPERTIES
ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE OWNED BY
LOCAL INVESTORS OR MEMBERS OF
THE COMMUNITY.
IF WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE,
WE COMPILED DETERRENTS.
AS WE TOUCHEED ON, THERE'S A
VERY COMPLEX AND LAYER
REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT.
THE CHANGE HAS A CUMULATIVE
EFFECT THAT'S MORE THAN EACH
INDIVIDUAL PIECE OF LEGISLATION
AND REALLY NEEDS TO BE TAKEN AS
A WHOLE.
AND THEN ON THE NEXT POINT,
THERE'S BEEN A LACK OF ANALYSIS
OF THOSE IMPACTS SO THERE'S
REALLY BEEN NO FORMAL EFFORT OR
ATTEMPT TO ASSESS WHAT'S BEEN
THE IMPACT OF THIS?
HAVE WE ACHIEVED THE GOALS WE
WANT TO?
AND DO WE NEED TO MITIGATE FOR
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
THERE'S A LACK OF INFORMATION
AND SUPPORT.
LACK OF ENGAGEMENT AND OUT
REACH, SOMETIMES THERE'S A LOT
OF NEGATIVE RHETORIC WHEN WE
SHOULD BE WORKING TOGETHER ON
HOUSING SOLUTIONS.
THE FINES AN PENALTIES THAT HAVE
BEEN INCLUDED ARE VERY STEEP AND
EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT APPLIED
OFTEN, KNOWING THAT THERE'S A
$11,000 FIRST TIME CIVIL PENALTY
FOR VIOLATING THE FIRST TIME,
WHICH IS THE FIRST IN THE NATION
ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE ALL
LEARNING ABOUT, HOW TO APPLY,
THAT THAT'S A HUGE THREAT THAT'S
REALLY A SIGNIFICANT DISINSENT I
HAVE FOR SMALL HOUSING PROVIDERS
TO CONTINUE.
COURT ACCESS IS VERYCOURT ACCES
REACH.
IT'S VERY COSTLY AND TRAINING ON
US AND WE PROVIDED THESE SLIDES
LAST WEEK, BY TEND OF LAST WEEK,
AND IT WAS BEFORE THE INCIDENT
THAT HAPPENED IN BALLARD SO THE
NEXT PART ABOUT THE LACK OF
PUBLIC SIFT SUPPORT, POLICE
SUPPORT IS NEEDED TO HANDLE
DANGEROUS TENANT SITUATIONS.
THERE CAN BE SOME REALLY
DIFFICULT THINGS WE HAVE TO DEAL
WITH AND IT'S HARD TO SECURE
PUBLIC SAFETY SUPPORT.
WE'LL MOVE IN PRETTY SOON TO OUR
ROUND TABLE.
WE'LL GET TO EVERYBODY
INTRODUCING OURSELVES IN A
MINUTE BUT OUR FINAL SLIDE IS
RIGHT AFTER THIS.
LOOKING FORWARD.
I HOPE WE CAN REST ON THIS A
LITTLE BIT, TOO.
SEATTLE NEEDS TO RETAIN THE
EXISTING HOUSING THAT WE HAVE
AND WE NEED TO BUILD MORE BUT AT
THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE BEEN
LOSING THE AFFORDABLE SMALL
RENTALS.
THE SMALL-SCALE RENTALS FROM
VIED ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND
OPPORTUNITIES TO EVERYBODY
INVOLVED IN THE HOUSING
EQUATION, RENTERS, OWNERS, AND
THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.
THIS IS A WIN/WIN THING THAT'S
REALLY VALUABLE, PUNCHING ABOVE
OUR WEIGHT IN TERMS OF THE VALUE
WE PROVIDE BUT THE BARRIERS AND
RISKS IN POLICY THAT WE HAVE
RIGHT NOW ARE UNTENABLE SO I
REALLY ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO IS
WATCHING, COUNCIL MEMBERS,
ANYONE TO LOOK AT THE SMALL
LANDLORD STAKEHOLDER REPORT
THAT'S ATTACHED.
IT'S PACKED, 21 PAGES.
WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.
SMALL HOUSING PROVIDERS ARE A
VALUABLE PART OF THE ECOSYSTEM
BUT WE NEED TO DO MORE.
I WILL INTRODUCE MYSELF AND GO
ONE AT A TIME.
OKAY.
SO YOU HEARD A LOT FROM ME, I
WILL TRY TO KEEP IT SHORT.
I'M MARILYN YIM.
MY HUSBAND AND I ARE OWNER
OCCUPANTS OF A TRIPLEX.
THIS HAS BEEN OUR WAY TO
ACCESSING HOUSING FOR OUR FAMILY
BECAUSE WE FOUND THAT
MULTIFAMILY GIVES US FLEXIBILITY
AS OUR CHILDREN GET OLDER, AS
OUR PARENTS GET OLDER AND
DIFFERENT FAMILY SITUATIONS.
WE ARE BOTH GOVERNMENT WORKERS
AND UNION MEMBERS AND THIS HAS
BEEN A WAY TO HELP US TO BE ABLE
TO MANAGE THOSE COSTS WE HAVE
BEEN DOING IT FOR 20 YEARS.
I HAVE FOUND IT TO BE
INCREASINGLY OVERWHELMING AND IT
WORRIES ME TO THINK WHAT
SOMEBODY BRAND NEW WHO HAS NEVER
DONE THIS BEFORE WOULD HAVE TO
BE ABLE TO ABSORB AND LEARN
ABOUT AND BE ABLE TO GET ON TOP
OF ALL THIS.
EVEN THOUGH I'M EXPERIENCED AND
MOTIVATED, I FEEL LIKE I'M
WALKING ON A MINE FIELD.
MY HUSBAND AND I, BECAUSE WE ARE
VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT WHAT
ACCESS TO OUR TRIPLEX HAS MEANT
FOR OUR FAMILY, WE'RE EXCITED
ABOUT THE MISSING MIDDLE
HOUSING.
WE WANT TO SEE MORE OF IT IN
SEATTLE AND BEYOND.
IT HELPS TO BE ABLE TO QUALIFY
FOR A MORTGAGE AND MAKE THAT
PAYMENT OVER TIME AND PROVIDES
FLEXIBILITY, BUT GIVEN THE
CHANGING LAWS, WE HAVE BEEN
REALLY ENCOURAGING THEM NOT TO
BUY IN SEATTLE AND I HATE TO SAY
THAT BECAUSE I LOVE THIS CITY,
BUT IT IS JUST DIFFICULT TO WORK
THROUGH THE REGULATION THAT IS
HAVE CHANGED AND I WILL JUST
NAME A FEW THAT HAVE MEANT A LOT
TO US.
FIRST IN TIME, THE CRIMINAL
BACKGROUND CHECK BAN, THE
ROOMMATE ORDINANCE, THE EXTENDED
EVICTION BANS.
PEOPLE WHO SHARE FOUR WALLS WITH
MY TENANTS WITH OUR CHILDREN ON
SITE, IT HAS BEEN VERY DIFFICULT
TO ABSORB THAT RISK.
WE DO NOT HAVE A LOT OF
FLEXIBILITY.
WE FEEL VERY VULNERABLE IN OUR
OWN HOME AND IN ADDITION TO US,
ENCOURAGING PEOPLE NOT TO BUY IN
SEATTLE.
EVERY SMALL LANDLORD WE KNOW HAS
A PLAN TO LEAVE THE CITY.
WITH THAT, I WILL TURN THE PANEL
OVER THE JIM YEARBY.
>> JUST A REMINDER, TWO OR THREE
MINUTES OR SO IF YOU CAN.
GO AHEAD, SIR.
>> FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU,
COUNCIL, VERY MUCH FOR INVITING
US TO APPEAR TODAY.
JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND
ABOUT ME, I HAVE LIVED IN
SEATTLE ALL OF MY ADULT LIFE.
I HAVE BEEN A LANDLORD IN
SEATTLE FOR OVER 25 YEARS
STARTING WITH THE FAMILY-OWNED
THAT MY MOM PASSED ONTO ME.
I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF
EXPERIENCE AND I WANT TO TALK
ABOUT A COUPLE OF EXPERIENCES
THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE.
BEING A SMALL LANDLORD IN
SEATTLE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENT
THAN BEING ANY OTHER SMALL
BUSINESS OWNER.
THERE'S REVENUE AND EXPENSES AND
THAT'S REALLY THE BOTTOM LINE.
IT'S IN THE LANDLORD'S BEST
INTEREST OR CERTAINLY IN MY BEST
INTEREST TO FIND AND RETAIN GOOD
TENANTS, TENANTS WHO PAY ON TIME
AND I WHO DELIVER IN TERMS OF
MAKING SURE THE PROPERTY IS
LIVABLE, CLEAN, AND ANY ISSUE
THAT IS COME UP GET TAKEN CARE
OF.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT AN
EXPERIENCE I HAD IN PARTNERSHIP
WITH HOUSING CONNECTER.
A FAMILY THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A
RISK TURNS OUT THIS HAS BEEN ONE
OF THE MOST ENJOYABLE AND
SUCCESSFUL EXPERIENCES I HAVE
HAD.
THIS FAMILY PAYS RENT ON TIME,
KEEPS UP THE PROPERTY, LET MES
ME KNOW WHEN THERE'S AN ISSUE I
NEED TO ADDRESS AND IT'S JUST
BEEN WONDERFUL AND WERE IT NOT
FOR THE PARTNERSHIP WITH HOUSING
CONNECTER, THIS SITUATION WOULD
NOT HAVE BEEN AS POSITIVE.
I THINK LANDLORDS, CERTAINLY I
SPEAK FOR MYSELF WANT TO FIND A
RELATIONSHIP SUCCESSFUL AND IT
DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD TO IMPOSE
ON TENANTS OR ACT IRRESPONSIBLY
OR DO ANYTHING THAT FRUSTRATE
THAT RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE, AFTER
ALL, I'M LOOKING FOR A POSITIVE
RELATIONSHIP.
I'M LOOKING FOR A POSITIVE
OUTCOME.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I WOULD LIKE
TO SHARE AN EXPERIENCE THAT I
HAD.
THERE WAS NO PARTNERSHIP.
I CHOSE THE TENANTS AND THERE
WERE THREE PEOPLE WHO LIVED AT
THE PROPERTY.
THEY LEFT ON FIVE MONTHS BACK
DUE RENT, ABOUT $10,000.
I DON'T WANT TO COME ACROSS TOO
CRITI
CRITICAL BUT THE HOUSE WAS
REALLY TRASHED, LEFT A PUBLIC
UTILITY BILL OVER $1,000.
THE CITY SAID YOU'RE THE
PROPERTY OWNER, YOU HAVE TO PAY
THIS AND I'M GOING TO HAVE TO
PAY IT.
LEFT FURNITURE ON THE PROPERTY
THAT I HAD TO DISPOSE OF.
COST ABOUT $1,000 TO GET THAT
DONE.
THE YARD WAS A DISASTER.
I WAS CONSTANTLY GETTING
COMPLAINTS FROM THE NEIGHBORS.
POLICE WERE THERE ALL THE TIME
AND ONE OF THE TENANTS
TERMINATED HIS RELATIONSHIP
EARLY BUT LEFT BEHIND A
GIRLFRIEND WHO I DIDN'T HAVE ANY
KNOWLEDGE OF, HAD NO
RELATIONSHIP WITH.
SHE WAS NOT ON THE LEASE, AND I
STRUGGLED TO EVEN COMMUNICATE
WITH THIS PERSON.
SHE FRANKLY TOLD ME, LOOK, I
HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS, YOU CAN'T
FORCE ME TO LEAVE AND YOU KNOW
WHAT?
SHE WAS RIGHT.
I COULDN'T FORCE HER TO LEAVE.
LUCKILY IT TURNED OUT THAT WE
WERE ABLE TO DISSOLVE THAT
RELATIONSHIP, BUT THE LAW THAT
PROTECTS ROOMMATES IS REALLY A
TOUGH ONE BECAUSE AS A PROPERTY
ONER, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
ANY PERSON WHO OCCUPIES A
RESIDENCE ON A PROPERTY OF MINE,
THAT THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE AND
TREAT THE NEIGHBORS WITH
RESPECT.
I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, I THINK
IT'S IN LANDLORDS' BEST INTEREST
TO TREAT TENANTS WITH RESPECT
AND TO TREAT THEM FAIRLY.
I CAN CERTAINLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF
BUT IT DOESN'T DO ME IN GOOD TO
BE AN IRRESPONSIBLE LANDLORD AND
TO ASSUME ALL LANDLORDS ARE BAD
AND TENANTS ARE GOOD IS PROBABLY
NOT ACCURATE.
I APPRECIATE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO
BE HERE, TO SHARE A FEW WORDS
ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE AND AS I GO
FORWARD, I HAVE A COMMITMENT
FIRST TO MYSELF AND TO THE CITY
AND TO TENANTS, TREAT THEM
FAIRLY WITH RESPECT TO ABIDE BY
THE LAWS BUT CERTAINLY SOME OF
THE LAWS ARE HEAVY ON LANDLORDS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GIVING ME
THIS OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> HELLO, I'M AYDA.
I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN SEATTLE
IN DISTRICT FIVE AND I HAVE
THREE THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO
SHARE WITH YOU TODAY.
ONE IS MY EXPERIENCE AS A
HOUSING PROVIDER IN SEATTLE.
TWO IS THE UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCES OF SEATTLE'S MANY
HOUSING REGULATIONS AND THREE IS
ABOUT INCLUDING THE PERSPECTIVES
OF HOUSING PROVIDERS MOVING
FORWARD.
FOR THE FIRST ITEM, SEVERAL
YEARS AGO, I BOUGHT A SINGLE
FAMILY HOME IN THE LAKE CITY
AREA.
I WAS THRILLED AND I POURED MY
LIFE SAVING INTO THE PURCHASE.
THEN I HAD TO MOVE FOR WORK A
FEW MONTHS BEFORE THE COVID
PANDEMIC BEGAN.
I DIDN'T WANT TO SELL MY HOME SO
I AREN'TED IT, PRETTY MUCH AT
COST.
IT WAS VERY MUCH BELOW MARKET.
MY SITUATION WAS COMMON.
THERE'S LOTS OF SITUATIONAL
HOUSING PROVOID, PEOPLE WHO TAKE
IN A TENANT TO OFFSET MORTGAGE
PAYMENTS AND HAVE LIFE EXCHANGE.
THE TENANT SEEMED HIKIKELIKE A
PERSON BUT HIS CREDIT WAS POOR.
ONCE THE SEATTLE EVICTION
MORATORIUM WENT INTO EFFECT, MY
TENANT STOPPED PAYING RENT AND
STOPPED COMMUNICATING, NOT
BECAUSE HE WAS UNABLE TO BUT
BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE TO.
THIS WENT ON FOR TWO HIGHLY
STRESSFUL YEARS AND DURING THIS
TIME, I NEEDED TO MOVE BACK INTO
MY OWN HOME BUT BECAUSE THE
EVICTION MORATORIUM WAS ONE OF
THE TOUGHEST IN THE COUNTRY, IT
WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO MOVE
BACK INTO MY OWN HOME.
I HAD TO SPEND $20,000 IN
EVICTION FEES AND LEGAL COSTS
AND BECAUSE HE COULDN'T
COOPERATE, NO ONE WOULD HELP.
MY TENANT BARRICADED HIMSELF
INSIDE AND HAD FIVE GUNS, ONE AT
EVERY ENTRANT TO THE HOUSE.
ONCE I FINALLY HAD POSSESSION OF
MY HOME, I FOUND $70,000 IN
PROPERTY DAMAGE, THE WALLS, THE
FLOORS, THE PRELIMILUMBING DEST.
IT TOOK MONTHS TO GET THE HOUSE
TO LIVABLE CONDITIONS AND EVEN
THOUGH I VIOLATED NO ORDINANCES,
NONE OF THE FINES THAT HAVE BEEN
PASSED APPLIED TO ME.
I'M STILL FACING A TOTAL OF
$120,000 LOSS.
THE CITY HAS NO SOLUTIONS FOR
ME.
I CANNOT THINK OF A SINGLE OTHER
BUSINESS THAT WOULD BE EXPECTED
TO PROVIDE THEIR GOODS AND
SERVICES FOR FREE FOR TWO YEARS
TO A COMPLETELY UNCOOPERATIVE
PERSON.
WHAT HAPPENED TO ME AND OTHER
LANDLORDS LIKE ME IN SEATTLE IS
A WARNING TO OTHER POTENTIAL
LANDLORDS.
THEY ARE CHOOSING NOT TO ENTER
THE SEATTLE HOUSING MARKET AND
MANY EXISTING SMALL LANDLORDS
ARE SELLING TO OWNER OAK MCCUPA.
IT REDUCES RENTAL STOCK AND IT'S
SOMETHING TO CITY DESPERATELY
NEEDS.
MY SECOND POINT IS ON THE
CONSEQUENCES OF THE EXPLOSION OF
SEATTLE REGULATIONS.
MY TENANT SEEMED NORMAL WHEN I
RENTED TO HIM.
WHEN SOMEONE PLANS TO RENT A
ROOM AND THEY HEAR WHAT HAPPENED
TO ME AND THEY CANCEL THEIR
PLANS OR INCREASE THEIR RENTAL
CRITERIA AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S
SO PAINFUL TO GET A DIFFICULT
TENANT OUT EVEN AFTER THE
PANDEMIC MORATORIUM AND YOU WILL
HEAR ABOUT THAT FROM RIZWAN
NEXT.
THAT MEANS NO RESTRICTIONS ARE
NEEDED AND THIS IS BAD FOR
TENANTS, TOO.
IN MY LIFE, AS I'M SURE IN
YOURS, THE LUCKY BREAKS WHERE
SOMEONE TAKES A CHANCE ON YOU IS
THE RELIEF THAT YOU NEEDED AND
UNFORTUNATELY SEATTLE HAS MADE
IT TOO RISKY TO TAKE A CHANCE ON
TENANTS.
WE REALLY NEED A FUNCTIONAL
RELATIONSHIP WITH SMALL HOUSING
PROVIDERS.
THAT MEANS HEARING FROM THEM
LIKE TODAY AND BEING INCLUDED IN
ANY PROPOSED HOUSING REGULATION
DISCUSSIONS.
THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNISTS ON
BOTH SIDES AND DESPITE WHAT I
WENT THROUGH, I STILL THINK MOST
TENANTS ARE GOOD.
SEATTLE'S LAWS ARE SO UNBALANCED
THAT IT MAKES BAD SITUATIONS
WORSE.
BEFORE I HAND OFF TO THE NEXT
SPEAKER, I WANT TO SAY I TRIED
TO REACH OUT TO COUNCIL SEVERAL
TIMES AND NEVER RECEIVED A
RESPONSE SO THANK YOU FOR TODAY
AND THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE
TIME.
>> MY NAME IS RIZWAN AND I
THOUGHT I WOULD KEEP MY EMOTIONS
AND WRITE SOMETHING ON A PIECE
OF PAPER BUT I WILL EXPRESS MY
FEELINGS.
I HAVE BEEN A LANDLORD FOR
30 YEARS.
AS AN IMMIGRANT IN THIS COUNTRY,
I WORKED VERY HARD, MADE A
LITTLE MONEY AND BOUGHT A FEW
RENTAL PROPERTIES.
IT WAS OKAY.
YOU HAVE BAD RENTALS, GOOD
RENTALS.
I TRUSTED A GUY.
I NEVER JUDGE A PERSON, WHEN
SOMEBODY COMES TO ME AND SAYS I
HAVE THIS ISSUE AND THAT ISSUE.
I RENTED TO THIS INDIVIDUAL AS
AN AIRBNB AND HE WANTED TO
STATE.
THE MOMENT COVID HIT, HE CHANGED
HIS COLOR BECAUSE HE GOT THE
BLESSING FROM THE CITY OF
SEATTLE COUNCIL MEMBERS TO DO
WHATEVER HE WANTS TO DO.
HE NOT ONLY STOPPED PAYING RENT,
HE CONVERTED THE WHOLE HOUSE
INTO A NIGHTMARE, MARKETED 20,
30 CARS, PLAYING MUSIC, DOING
ALL KINDS OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES
AND THERE'S NOTHING I COULD DO,
NEIGHBORS WROTE LETTERS.
I TOOK IT TO THE KING COUNTY
PROSECUTOR, ATTORNEY GENERAL
BRIAN SUTHERLAND AND HE SAID
IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
MY ATTORNEYS KEEP TRYING AND I
NEVER WENT AND ASKED HIM FOR THE
MONEY, I JUST ASKED HIM TO NOT
HARASS THE NEIGHBORS.
30, 40 CARS, HE CUT DOWN MY
BEAUTIFUL MAPLE TREE AND PARKED
A CAR ON THE LAWN.
THEY PULLED A GUN ON ME.
SUDDENLY THESE PEOPLE BECAME GOD
KNOWS WHO.
FOUR OF THE NEIGHBORS WHO GREW
UP IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD FOR
50 YEARS SOLD THEIR PROPERTIES.
THE NEW NEIGHBORS CAME, YOUNG
TABLES, THEIR LIVES BECAME
NIGHTMARES.
WHEN I START TALKING, I THOUGHT
I WAS AN ACTIVIST, I AM AN
ACTIVIST, A WELL-KNOWN ACTIVIST.
I STARTED MEETING POLITICIANS.
I WROTE ALL OF Y'ALL LETTERS BUT
NONE OF THE DEAF EARS REPLIED
BACK TO ME.
I MET THE MAYOR, THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL, I MET EVERY SINGLE
PERSON.
THEY SAID THERE'S NOTHING THEY
CAN DO BECAUSE THE CITY OF
SEATTLE PASSED THOSE LAWS AND
THESE PEOPLE JUST BECOME SO
VIOLENT BECAUSE THEY HAD THE
BLESSING OF YOU GUYS SO THEY CAN
TERRORIZE THE NEIGHBORS, THE
CHILDREN COULD NOT PLAY IN THE
FRONT OR BACKYARD, PEOPLE WERE
PUTTING CAMERAS ALL AROUND THEIR
NEIGHBORS, PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN
FEARS.
THE YOUNG COUPLE, LAURA AND
KYLE, COULDN'T SLEEP MORE THAN
TWO HOURS.
THE PRIEST BEHIND HIM, HE SAID
I'M A PRIEST, PLEASE --
>> I GET YOUR POINT.
>> THEY BURNED DOWN THE HOUSE.
THE POLICE AND FIRE CAME SEVERAL
TIMES.
MY WATER BILL WAS $15,000
BECAUSE OF THE BLESSING OF YOU
GUYS, CITY OF SEATTLE WOULD NOT
TURN OFF THE WATER.
THEY TRANSFERRED THE ELECTRIC
BILL IN MY NAME FRAUDULENTLY AND
THEY WILL NOT CUT THE
ELECTRICITY.
WHEN THEY CUT THE ELECTRICITY,
THEY STARTED USING A GENERATOR,
PUTTING A JUMPER TABLE AND THEN,
YOU KNOW, KEEPING THE NEIGHBORS
UP ALL NIGHT LONG, GENERATORS
RUNNING.
THE CITY OF SEATTLE CUT DOWN THE
WATER, THEY PUT THE LOCK, THEY
CUT DOWN THE LOCK, CUT DOWN THE
JACK.
THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO IN MY
POWER.
IT LOOKS LIKE I'M NOT LIVING IN
AMERICA.
IT LOOKS LIKE I'M NOT LIVING IN
SEATTLE.
IT USED TO BE A GREAT
NEIGHBORHOOD, PEOPLE CAN GO AND
TALK.
PEOPLE ARE LIVING THEIR LIVES IN
FEAR JUST BECAUSE YOU GUYS DID
NOT THINK ABOUT IT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF BAD ACTORS
OUT THERE.
THEY WILL TAKE PULL ADVANTAGE OF
THE SITUATION AND WILL DESTROY
PEOPLE'S LIVES.
THE LAST THREE YEARS, I HAVE
BEEN HOSPITALIZED MANY TIMES
JUST BY THE STRESS AND I -- NONE
OF THESE GUYS.
I WROTE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM
AND I GOT NO REPLY, NO REPLY.
FOR GOD'S SAKE, THIS IS A GREAT
CITY.
DO NOT LET THESE PEOPLE DESTROY
THE STICHLT DO NOT LET THESE
PEOPLECDO NOT LET THESEI
DO NOT LET THESE PEOPLE DESTROY
THE CITY.
>> I SEE THERE'S A LOT OF
EMOTION HERE AND I THINK WE
SHOULD MOVE ON TO THE LAST
SPARK.
>> EMOTION IS ONE THING, I LIVE
FAR FROM THIS HOUSE.
PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN FEAR.
YOU HAVE TAKEN AWAY THEIR
LIVELIHOOD.
YOU KNOW, YOUNG PEOPLE CANNOT
COME OUT.
THEY HAVE A 24/7 CAMERA ALL
AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> OKAY, SIR.
WE'RE GOING TO STOP NOW.
>> I WILL STOP BECAUSE I COULD
TALK FOR FOUR HOURS BECAUSE IT
HURTS SO MUCH AND I CAN'T DO
ANYTHING, YOU KNOW?
I HOPE YOU CAN HEAR MY VICE FOR
THE SAKE OF SAVING THE CITY.
>> LET'S MOVE ON TO THE NEXT
SPEAKER.
>> THANK YOU.
>> MY NAME IS CHRISTOPHER
CUTTING AND I'M A SMALL HOUSING
PROVIDER IN SEATTLE AS WELL AS
AN ATTORNEY.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION
TODAY.
WE HEARD A BUNCH OF VERY
HEARTFELT AND PERSONAL STORIES
FROM OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PANEL.
I WANTED TO SHARE A BIT OF MY
PERSPECTIVE AS ONE OF THE VENN
DRAWERSVENDORS THAT PROVIDE SER.
WE HAVE SEEN THE LARGE PACE OF
CHANGE AT THE STATE AND CITY
LEVEL OF REGULATIONS, GOVERNING,
PROVIDING HOUSING IN SEATTLE AND
IN WASHINGTON.
THERE'S OF COURSE A COST
INHERENT IN ANY GOVERNMENT
ACTION.
THERE'S AN EXTRA BIRD PLACED ON
HOUSING PROVIDERS WHEN LOCAL
JURISDICTIONS LIKE THE CITY OF
SEATTLE ACT AND ACT DIFFERENTLY
FROM STATE LEVEL RESOURCES.
THIS IS BECAUSE OF THAT COST OF
THE DIFFERENCE KEEPING TRACK OF
AND COMPLYING WITH DIFFERENCES
BETWEEN STATE LEVEL AND LOCALGU.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE WASHINGTON
STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE
PROVIDES A LOT OF FREE RESOURCES
TO RESIDENTIAL LANDLORDS AND
TENANTS.
MANY ARE OF LITTLE OR NO VALUE
TO SEATTLE'S HOUSING PROVIDERS
BECAUSE THE CITY'S LARGE NUMBER
OF REGULATIONS CHANGES HOW THE
RELATIONSHIP OPERATES AND MAKES
THOSE RELATIONSHIPS OF LESS OR
NO VALUE SO THEY LOSE ACCESS TO
THAT FREE AND LOW COST ABILITY
TO RESPOND AND TO BE ETHICAL AND
HIGH QUALITY PROVIDERS.
THEY HAVE TO SEEK OUT
INDIVIDUALIZED OR MORE EXPENSIVE
RESOURCES THAT ARE DEDICATED TO
SEATTLE'S SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS.
I ASK THE COUNCIL TO KEEP THAT
IN MIND WHEN CONSIDERING
INDIVIDUAL ORDINANCES BUT FOR
THE PACE OF CHANGE AS WELL, THAT
BEING CONFRONTED WITH CONSTANT
CHANGES, WITH THE LARGE NUMBER
OF DIFFERENCES BETWEEN
WASHINGTON STATE, THE CITY OF
SEATTLE SPECIFICALLY, OTHER LAWS
AND LOCAL JURISDICTIONS AROUND
THE SEATTLE AREA, THIS CREATES A
SECOND BURDEN WHICH MAY BE LARGE
OR SMALL BUT THIS IMPACT, THIS
DIFFERENCE TAKES AWAY AN ABILITY
TO ACCESS A LOT OF THESE
RESOURCES AND HAS A DOUBLING OF
THAT BURDEN, THAT IMPACT ON
SEATTLE HOUSING PROVIDES.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
COMING OUT TODAY AND BEING HERE
IN PERSON AND SHARING YOUR
STORIES AND I DO WANT TO SEND A
SHOUT OUT TO STAFF WHO WORKED
HARD TO PUT THIS TOGETHER.
SOME OF THE THEMES I'M HEARING,
WHAT REALLY CAUGHT MY EAR IS WE
NEED A FUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP
WITH SMALL HOUSING PROVIDERS.
I HEAR THAT AND ALSO THAT IT'S
NOT JUST -- THERE IS GOOD
INTENTION BEHIND THESE
INDIVIDUAL REGULATIONS BUT WHEN
TAKEN CUMULATIVELY AND THEN I
HAD NOT CONSIDERED THE
COMPLEXITY OF STATE LAWS, THEY
CAN BE BURDENSOME, SO THOSE ARE
SOME OF THE THINGS I HEARD YOU
SAY AND I WILL NOW OPEN IT UP TO
SOME QUESTIONS FROM MY
COLLEAGUES.
I DO HAVE ONE, HOWEVER.
SOMEBODY, I THINK A COUPLE OF
YOU MENTIONED THE LEGISLATION IN
COUNCIL MEMBER'S SAMAD'S
DISTRICT TO CAPW'S DISTRICT
TO A'S DISTRICT
TO N'S
DISTRICT TT'S
DISTRICT TO CAP LATE FEES.
WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THESE
LATE FEES AND WHAT MAKES UP THE
COST BEHIND THE PROCESSING FEES?
COULD YOU JUST ADDRESS THAT
BRIEFLY?
>> OF COURSE.
A SMALL HOUSING PROVIDER THINKS
OF A LATE FEE AS PROVIDING TWO
FUNCTIONS, ONE IS TO ENCOURAGE
ON TIME PAYMENT FROM SOMEONE WHO
MAY BE ABLE TOO PAY AND THEY
NEED TO EXTRA PUSH TO MAKE THEIR
PAYMENT IN FULL AND ON TIME BUT
A SECOND COMPONENT IS ABSORBING
THE COST THAT THE HOUSING
PROVIDER INCURS FROM THAT LATE
PAYMENT FROM HAVING TO PROCESS A
SINGLE CHECK OR A SINGLE PAYMENT
AT A DIFFERENT TIME FROM ALL THE
OTHER INCOME THEY'RE HANDLING OF
POSSIBLE RISKS TO MAYBE MISSING
A MORTGAGE PAYMENT.
WHEN I BECAME A HOUSING
PROVIDER, I PURCHASED A HOME FOR
MYSELF AND I WAS MOVING OUT OF
THE CONDO I NOW RENT.
WE HAD BARELY ONE MONTH OF CASH
SAVINGS TO COVER THAT FIRST
MONTH'S MORTGAGE AND WE HAD TO
GET A RESIDENT IN BEFORE THE END
OF THAT MONTH.
WE HAD TO GET INCOME FROM THAT
RESIDENT TO PAY THAT SECOND
MONTH'S RENT.
IT TOOK ME MANY YEARS TO BUILD
UP ONE MONTH'S CUSHION SHOULD MY
RESIDENT HAVE MISSED A PAYMENT
SO THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO COVER
THE MORTGAGE WITH THE INCOME
COMING FROM THAT RENTAL
PROPERTY.
IF MY RESIDENT HAD ANY
DIFFICULTY ALONG THE WAY, I
WOULD HAVE HAD TO FIND OTHER
RESOURCES TO PAY FOR THAT, SO
THE OTHER THING THAT A LATE FEE
DOES IS IT PLACES EH THAT BURDEN
OF THAT LATE PAYMENT ON THE
PERSONEH THAT BURDEN
OF THAT LATE PAYMENT ON THE
PERSONOF
THAT LATE PAYMENT ON THE PERSON
WHO HAD THE PROBLEM RATHER THAN
HAVING TO SHARE IT AMONG ALL OUR
RESIDENTS.
IF I HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, FIVE
RENTAL PROPERTIES AND ONE OF
THEM ISN'T PAYING, IF THAT ONE
RESIDENT, WHEN THEY'RE ABLE TO
CATCH BACK UP, IF THEY CAN PAY A
LATE FEE COCOVER THAT EXTRA COST
TO ME, THEY THEMSELVES BEAR THE
COST OF OTHER LATE PAYMENTS.
AN UNREASONABLY LOW CAP,
HOWEVER, MEANS I HAVE TO SPREAD
THAT OUT AMONG MY OTHER
CUSTOMERS.
IF I HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
OF UNITS, THAT'S EASY TO SPREAD
AND ABSORB BUT IF I HAVE ONE,
TWO, THREE UNITS, THAT CAN
BECOME A SIGNIFICANT BURDEN FOR
MY OTHER RESIDENTS.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE
THAT PROBABLY 99% OF RESIDENTS
ARE GREAT AND THEY NEVER HAVE
PROBLEMS WITH THEIR HOUSING
PROVIDE YOU ARE AND THEIR
HOUSING PROVIDER NEVER HAS
PROBLEMS WITH THEM.
WHAT WE DO WHEN WE PLACE THESE
KIND OF RESTRICTIONS BROADLY ON
EVERYONE IS WE FORCE THAT SMALL
MINORITY OF RESIDENTS, WHETHER
THEY'RE HAVING DIFFICULTIES
BETWEEN A HOUSING PROVIDER, WE
HAVE TO SPREAD THAT COST OUT TO
ALL THE OTHER GREAT RESIDENTS
WHO OTHERWISE NEVER HAVE ANY
PROBLEM WITH THAT.
>> THANK YOU.
COUNCILMEMBER JUAREZ.
>> CHRISTOPHER, WOULD YOU MINE
IF I ASK ONE OF YOUR PANELISTS A
QUESTION?
>> GO AHEAD.
>>
WY WE HAD A DISCUSSION LAST WEEK
ABOUT WE HAD A DISCUSSION LAST
WEEK ABOU WE HAD A DISCUSSION L
WEEK ABOUE WE HAD A DISCUSSION
WEEK ABOUWEEK
ABOUT THE $10 FLAT LATE FEE.
I WAS NOT HEARING FROM THE SMALL
HOME OWNERS.
WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE LATE
FEE?
IT'S AN INCENTIVE TO PAY ON TIME
SO YOU DON'T GET THE FEE AND IT
CAN BE PUNITIVE.
IN FACT, IF YOU DON'T PAY YOUR
RENT ON TIME, THE FEE IS
IMPOSED.
THE TWO QUESTIONS THAT YOU
RAISED, CHRISTOPHER, NUMBER ONE,
WHEN YOU SAID AN UNREASONABLY
LOW LATE RENT FEE, EXPLAIN TO
ME, NUMBER ONE, WHAT FEE DO YOU
CURRENTLY IMPOSE AS A LATE FEE?
AND I'M SURMISING THAT YOU
BELIEVE THAT A $10 FLAT FEE
WOULD BE UNREASONABLY LOW.
>> I PERSONALLY HAVE A 10% FEE
FOR LATE PAYMENT OF RENT.
IN MY CAREER AS A HOUSING
PROVIDER, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER
CHARGE THAT HAD FEE.
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO WORK
THINGS OUT WITH MY RESIDENT.
WE HAD AN INSTANCE A FEW MONTHS
AGO WHERE THERE WAS A BANK ERROR
THAT RESULTED IN HER RENT NOT
BEING PAID ON TIME AND WE WORK
THAT HAD OUT.
I HAVE NEVER PERSONALLY ACTUALLY
CHARGED THAT LATE FEE.
WASHINGTON LAW, CASE LAW, SAYS A
PRESUMPTIVE REASONABLE LATE FEE
IS 10% AND THAT'S WHAT I FOLLOW
AND RECOMMEND TO MY CLIENTS.
>> SO WHY WOULD YOU THINK $10
WOULD BE ON AN INREASONABLY LOW
LATE FEE?
>> WE KNOW WHAT RENTS ARE AND
$10 WILL NOT COME CLOSE TO
COVERING THE COST TO A HOUSING
PROVIDER FOR A PAYMENT THAT'S 10
TO 15 DAYS LATE.
MY LATE FEE FOR MY MORTGAGE IS
FAR GREATER THAN $10.
I HAVE CLIENTS WHO CHARGE FIVE
FIGURES FOR RENT.
A $10 LATE FEE, IT COSTS MORE TO
ENFORCE THAN TO COLLECT $10
>> YOU SAID SOMETHING THAT I
SUSPECTED BUT I'M GLAD THAT
MADAM CHAIR HAD YOU ON THE PANEL
AS A LANDLORD AND AS AN
ATTORNEY.
HOW MANY UNITS DO YOU HAVE?
>> ONE.
>> ONE RENTAL UNIT.
NO ONE HAS REALLY APPROACHED
WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP ABOUT A
LANDLORD HAVING TO BUILD UP AN
OCCASION TO COVER COSTS WHEN A
RENTER, FOR WHATEVER REASON,
BECAUSE THERE ARE MISTAKES AND
IF YOU HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP
YOU WORK IT OUT HOW LONG IT
TAKES TO BUILD A CUSHION TO
COVER COSTS IF SOMEBODY CAN'T
MAKE THEIR RENT AND YOU WERE
SAYING THAT FOR YOU, IT TOOK
LONGER TO BUILD A CUSHION IF A
RENTER CONTINUE PAY TO COVER ANY
COSTS, CORRECT?
>> THAT'S CORRECT.
AFTER PAYING MY MORTGAGE, I RENT
OUT A CONDO UNITE SO I HAVE A
CONDO DIE TO PAY.
WHEN I STARTED RENTING OUT THE
UNIT.
I THINK I WAS KEEPING ABOUT $30.
BETWEEN THOSE CASTS AND THE RENT
AND WITH THAT $30, I HAD TO
COVER MY RROI REGISTRATION FEE,
ANY MAINTENANCE THAT CAME UP,
VENDORS THAT I NEEDED TO HIRE TO
DO ANY WORK AND TO TRY TO BUILD
THAT FINANCIAL CUSHION SHOULD I
HAVE A VACANCY OR SHOULD MY
RESIDENTIAL HAVEAL HAVEL HA HAV
ISSUES.
>> I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY
LANDLORD-TENANT, YOU'RE RIGHT.
THIS CONVERSATION GETS SO
POLARIZING, I DON'T WANT TO GET
INTO TENANT OR LANDLORD
BEHAVIOR.
NOT EVERY TENANT IS BACK AND NOT
EVERY LANDLORD IS A SLUMLORD.
I'M GLAD WE HAVE THIS SAFE SPACE
TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS.
IF YOU HAVE A TENANT THAT
LEAVES, DOESN'T PAY THEIR RENT,
YOU PICK UP THE COST FOR THE
UTILITY BILL, THE LIGHT BILL,
THE GARBAGE BILL AND YOU'RE
STILL PAYING TAXES ON THOSE
PROPERTIES AS WELL, CORRECT?
>> I AM, YES.
>> SO THOSE ARE THE COSTS ON
THAT.
>> AND INSURANCE AND THE
MORTGAGE AND ANY REPAIRS THAT
MIGHT NEED TO BE MADE.
>> AND IF YOU'RE LATE IN KING
COUNTY FOR PROPERTY TAX, THEY
CHARGE A LOT AMOUNT OF INTEREST
FOR JUST A FEW DAYS LATE.
>> CORRECT.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE PROCESSING
FEES THAT LANDLORDS CHARGE TO
NOTIFY OF LATE PAYMENT?
CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT?
WHAT'S BEHIND THAT FEE?
>> CERTAINLY.
POST HOUSING PROVIDERS WILL TRY
INFORMALLY TO RESOLVE A PAYMENT
ISSUE.
THEIR COST IS GOING TO BE TIME
TO CALL OR TEXT OR E-MAIL A
RESIDENT.
WHEN THAT DOESN'T WORK, THEY
HAVE TO SERVE A FORMAL SERVICE
OF CLIENTS FOR NONPAYMENT OF
RENT A. LOT OF HOUSING PROVIDERS
WILL HIRE AN ATTORNEY, LIKE ME,
TO DO THAT.
OUR OFFICE CHARGES A COUPLE
HUNDRED DOLLARS TO PREPARE THAT
DOCUMENT.
WE'RE ONE OF THE CHEAPER
PROVIDERS OF LEGAL SERVICES TO
RESIDENTIAL LANDLORDS IN THE
AREA BUT IT'S STILL NOT
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND I
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND N
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND T
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND H
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND E
NEIGHBORHOOD OF $200 FOR US TO
PREPARE AND SERVE THOSE NOTICES.
>> IF I MAY ASK A FOLLOWUP.
YOU HEARD SOME PEOPLE
CHARACTERIZE THAT RENTERS ARE
BEING IMPOSED A COST FOR A PIECE
OF PAPER DELIVERED TO THEM TO
SAY YOUR RENT IS LATE.
WHETHER THAT'S TRUE OR NOT, I
DON'T KNOW.
WHAT I'M ASKING OF YOU IN REAL
LIFE, IN REALTIME, YOU'RE SAYING
TAT YOU HAVE TO HIRE A LAWYER
FOR A PROCESSING FEE TO SERVE
FORMAL NOTICE FOR SOMEBODY TO
LEAVE TO VACATE BECAUSE THEY
HAVE NOT PAID THEIR RENT, BUT DO
YOU IMPOSE A PROCESSING FEE TO
TELL SOMEBODY YOUR RENT IS LATE?
YOU SAY IT'S A TEXT OR A PHONE
CALL, A KNOCK ON THE DOOR,
THAT'S PRETTY MUCH MOST OF THE
COMMUNICATION THAT IS INCURRED
BECAUSE IT MAKES MORE SENSE.
IS THERE AN ACTUAL MOTNOTICE TOY
RENT FEE?
>> THAT IS NOT UNIVERSAL BUT
IT'S FAIRLY COMMON, YES.
POTENTIALLY A RESIDENTIAL MAY
MAKE A PAYMENT -- I'M MAKING A
HYPOTHETICAL.
TA PAYMENT IS DECLINED FOR
INSIEVE FUNDS.
A RENTAL AGREEMENT WILL COMMONLY
CALL FOR THREE FEES AS A RESULT.
AN NSF CHECK FEE, THE CHARGE
THAT THE BANK IS ASSESSING TO
THE HOUSING PROVIDER.
YOU SEE A LATE FEE THAT COVERS
THE COST OF PROCESSING A SINGLE
PAYMENT SEPARATE FROM ANY OTHER
PAYMENTS YOU'RE RECEIVING THAT
MONTH AND FREQUENTLY A FEE FOR
SERVING A FORMAL LANDLORD AND
TENANT NOTICE, A FORMAL
PREEVICTION NOTICE.
YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO SEE ALL
THREE OF THOSE IN FAIRLY
SPECIFIC AND LARGELY UNCOMMON
CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT IT'S VERY
COMMON TO SEE A LEASE AGREEMENT
PROVIDE FOR THOSE THREE FEES AS
EACH ONE MAY OR MAY NOT BE
APPROPRIATE.
>> I WAS JUST GOING TO ADD TO
THIS.
I'M SENSING FROM YOUR QUESTION A
LITTLE BIT, THIS TO ME IS ABOUT
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FORMAL
AND INFORMAL COMMUNICATION,
RIGHT?
MOST OF OUR COMMUNICATION WITH
OUR TENANTS IS AS YOU DESCRIBED,
A TEXT MESSAGE.
THAT'S HOW MOST PEOPLE TALK
PERSON TO PERSON.
THE DIFFERENCE IS WHEN IT GETS
INTO THINGS THAT COULD GO DOWN A
LEGAL ROAD FOR A LEGAL PROCESS,
AT THAT POINT YOU CAN'T DO THAT
ELECTRONICALLY OR BY TEXT.
IT HAS TO BE FORMAL ON PAPER AND
THE CITY OF SEATTLE HAS VERY
SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS ABOUT WHAT
HAS TO BE ON THAT NOTICE, ABOUT
THE FONT SIZE, SPECIFIC WORDING
IN THE SMC THAT HAS TO BE COP
PIT AND PASTO
AND PASTEE
AND PASTES
AND PASTE
AND PASTEI
AND PASTEE
AND PASTES
AND PASTE
AND PASTED
AND PASTED ON THOSE NOTICES TO
BE ABLE TO START THAT PROCESS IN
A COURT SITUATION.
IF YOU MISS THAT STUFF, PROCESS
AND PAPERWORK ARE THE FIRST
THINGS THAT GET CASES DISMISSED
SO YOU HAVE TO DO IT RIGHT FROM
THE VERY FIRST TIME.
IN TERMS OF SERVICE, THAT ALSO
IS DONE IN PERSON.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMEBODY VISIT
PERSONALLY.
IF YOU'RE NOT LOCATED IN
SEATTLE, YOU HAVE TO HIRE
SOMEBODY TO DO IT AND IF THEY
DON'T PUT THE NOTICE IN THE HAND
OF EACH PERSON ON THE LEASE,
THEN THEY ALSO HAVE TO POST IT
AND MAIL IT FROM THE SAME COUNTY
SO THERE'S A WHOLE PROCESS THAT
HAS TO BE DONE AND GAS IS
GETTING VERY EXPENSIVE SO I'M
NOTICING THAT PROCESSING FEES
HAVE GONE UP TO ACCOUNT FOR THE
COST OF TRANSPORT, EVEN, AND THE
PERSON WHO DELIVERS THOSE
NOTICES THAT HAS TO BE ABLE TO
FILE A DECLARATION OF NOTICE.
I WOULD PREFER TO OPERATE
INFORMALLY.
I'M COMFORTABLE IN AN INFORMAL
WAY BUT WE'RE FORCED TO DO IT
THE FORMAL WAY OR WE'RE SETTING
OURSELVES UP FOR FAILURE.
IT'S UNFORTUNATE.
THIS IS HOW THE LANDLORD-TENANT
RELATIONSHIP, INSTEAD OF BEING A
COOPERATIVE THING, IT'S BECOMING
ADDERER SUMM
ADVERSARIAL AND THAT'S OFFENSIVE
TO A TENANT OH, YOU'RE HANGING
PAPER ON ME, EVEN IF IT'S THAT
THE RENT IS GOING UP, THERE HAS
TO BE A FORMAL NOTICE.
>> ALL RIGHT, COUNCIL MEMBER
STRAUSS.
>> THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE THE
DISCUSSION TODAY.
I WAS LISTENING CLOSELY FROM MY
OFFICE.
I WANTED TO COME BACK OUT
BECAUSE A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT
YOU SAID RESONATED WITH ME.
ONE IN PARTICULAR IS THE
INCLUSION OF BEGINS IN A
SITUATION LIKE THIS.
GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION DOES NOT
STOP CRIME, IT REDUCES THE
IMPACT.
WE KNOW WHEN GUNS ARE INVOLVED
IN SITUATIONS, IT CAN TAKE AN
IMPOLICY AND CREATELICY I AND C
CHANGING MOMENT.
WE HAVE SEEN THIS IN MANY CASES
IN SUICIDE PREVENTION.
PEOPLE WHO DON'T TRY TO SUICIDE
BY GUNS COME BACK AND SAY I HAD
A SECOND THOUGHT AND YOUTH WHO
DON'T HAVE GOOD IMPULSE CONTROL.
THIS IS EXACERBATED IN
SITUATIONS THAT HAVE IMMENSE
TENSION, LIKE SIR, YOUR
IMMENSE -- YOU GOT VERY
EXORCIZED BECAUSE OF YOUR
EXPERIENCE AND THE CHAIR ASKED
YOU TO HANG ON SO I'M GOING THE
THE FINISH.
WHEN YOU HAVE SITUATIONS THAT
ARE UNSTABLE, IT CAN CREATE AN
IMPULSE AND CREATE THAT LIFE
CHANGING IMPACT SO I WANT TO
MAKE THIS, AGAIN, PLUG FOR
EXTREME RISK PROTECTION ORDERS.
IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO IS A
ROOMMATE, A RELATIVE OR A LOVED
ONE THAT'S IN AN UNSTABLE
SITUATION, WE HAVE LAWS ON OUR
BOOKS TODAY CALLED THE EXTREME
RISK PROTECTION ORDER THAT CAN
HAVE THOSE FIREARMS REMOVED OR
PROHIBIT THEM FROM BUYING
FIREARMS AND, AGAIN, THIS
DOESN'T STOP CRIMINAL ACTIVITY
OR UNSTABLE SITUATIONS, IT JUST
REDUCE IT IS IMPACT THAT THAT
MOMENT HAS, SO JUST READING FROM
SPD'S WEBSITE, EXTREME RISK
PROTECTION ORDERS RESTRICT THOSE
WHO ARE A THREAT TO THEMSELVES
OR OTHERS BY OBTAINING COURT
ORDER WHEN THERE'S A
DEMONSTRATED THEFT THE PERSON
POSES A SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO
THEMSELVES OR THE PERSON POSES
A SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO
THEMSELVE THE PERSON POSES
A SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO
THEMSELVER THE PERSON
POSES A SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO
THEMSELVEE THE PERSON
POSES A SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO
THEMSELVEA THE PERSON
POSES A SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO
THEMSELVET THE PERSON
POSES A SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO
THEMSELVES OR OTHERS.
I'M REALLY SORRY THAT THAT WAS
YOUR SITUATION WITH YOUR HOME
THAT YOU BOUGHT, RENTED AND THEN
BEYOND THE DAMAGE THAT OCCURRED,
WHEN FIREARMS ARE INVOLVED, IT
MAKES IT REALLY SCARY.
>> I SEE YOUR HAND, COUNCIL
MEMBER HERBOLD BY U T GO AHAND
RESPOND.
>> IN MY CASE, THE TENANT'S
FRIEND PULLED A BEGIN ON ME.
NO ONE KNOWS WHO IS LIVING
THERE, WHETHER THERE'S A CHILD
MOLESTER OR CRIMINAL IN SOME
OTHER WAYS.
I HAVE AN ATTORNEY WORKING
AROUND THE CLOCK AND CANNOT GET
A HEARING DATE.
SEATTLE SUED ME FOR $1,000 A DAY
BECAUSE I WAS NOT ABLE TO
CONVICT HIM.
THAT'S A JOKE.
ALL THESE NOTICES, JUNK, THIS
AND THAT AND SAID IT'S UP TO THE
LANDLORD.
YOU KNOW, THERE HAS TO BE SOME
KIND OF LAW IN A CIVILIZED SEAT
THAT ANYONE CAN'T JUST BARGE
INTO A HOUSE AND TERRORIZE A
NEIGHBORHOOD.
POLICE OFFICERS, FIRE
DEPARTMENTS WENT.
THEY SAID OUR HANDS ARE TIED.
NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING.
THE ATTORNEYS TOLD ME THEY ARE
MOVING TO TEXAS BAUDS ANOTHER
ATTORNEY TOLD ME I'M JUST A
PAPER PUSHER AND ANOTHER TOLD ME
I CANNOT EVEN GET ATOLDPAPER PUE
I CANNOT EVEN GET A HEARING
DATE.
THESE GUYS GET FREE ATTORNEYS
FROM KING COUNTY JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT TO REPRESENT THEM AND
I'M SPENDING OVER $20,000 JUST
TO PROTECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND
I'M UNABLE TO DO IT.
IT'S A JUNGLE LAW.
PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO LIVE LIKE
THAT.
NEIGHBORS, CHILDREN HAVE THE
RIGHT TO COME OUT AND PLAY
OUTSIDE ON THEIR GROUND.
THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.
YOU ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS.
>> THIS IS WHY WE HAVE -- CHAIR,
MAY I?
>> CAN YOU.
>> THIS IS WHY WE HAVE YOU AT
COMMITTEE TODAY.
>> THANK YOU.
>> AND THE CHAIR, IN YOUR
PREVIOUS COMMENT, ALREADY ASKED
YOU TO COME BACK.
WE'RE HERE LISTENING TO YOU.
I CAN'T SHARE ANYTHING MORE
DIRECTLY.
>> THE CITY OF SEATTLE ATTORNEY
CAN'T DO ANYTHING.
>> OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON.
>> IF I CAN MAKE A COMMENT.
HIS SITUATION IS STILL ON GOING,
IT'S EXTREME BUT I THINK IT
DEMONSTRATES AND ALSO AYDA'S
SITUATION, THERE ARE JUST NOT
EASY SOLUTIONS THAT COMMON SENSE
SHOULD SAY THERE SHOULD BE A WAY
TO PUT A STOP TO THAT, RIGHT?
SO THAT'S KIND OF THE SPACE
WE'RE THIS RIGHT NOW.
IT'S VERY HARD TO PROTECT PEOPLE
WHO ARE BEING IMPACTED,
VULNERABLE PEOPLE, EVEN, FROM A
SITUATION WHERE THEIR OWN HOME,
THEMSELVES AND THEIR OWN HOME
ARE AT RISK AS WELL.
THERE ARE OTHER SITUATIONS, TOO,
THAT MAYBE ARE NOT AS EXTREME
BUT WE WOULD SAY, YEAH, THERE
SHOULD BE A SOLUTION FOR THIS
AND THERE JUST ISN'T AN EASY
ONE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> COUNCIL MEMBER HERBOLD?
>> THANKS SO MUCH.
NOT SEEKING TO GET INTO A BACK
AND FORTH ABOUT THE CONTENT OF
THE PRESENTATION BUT I WANT TO
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS AT
THE BEGINNING OF THE
PRESENTATION THAT SPOKE TO THE
LANGUAGE IN THE SDCI RENTAL
RESOLUTION REPORT.
THERE'S BEEN THE 2021 REPORT AND
THE MORE RECENT 2023 REPORT.
IN 2021, THEY REPORTED THAT
THERE'S A CONCERN THAT DROP IN
REGISTRATIONS IS BEING
MISREPRESENTED SUGGESTING THAT
SEATTLE IS LOSING RENTAL STOCK
AND IN 2022, THEY GO ONTO SAY.
THE RRIO [INDISCERNIBLE] OF
RENTAL MARKET CHARACTERISTICS
AND THEN THEY GO ONTO SAY THAT
THEY'RE WORKING WITH THE CITY
AUDITOR'S OFFICE ON FURTHER
EXAMINATION OF THE REDUCTION IN
REGISTRATIONS AND WHAT SDCI
DESCRIBES AS AN INTHE
DETERMINANT RATE OF
NONCOMPLIANCE, MEANING
NONCOMPLIANCE WITH THE
REGISTERED RENTAL UNITS.
[INDISCERNIBLE] TO HELP US GET
MORE TO THE QUESTION OF THE
REDUCTION [INDISCERNIBLE] THE
SMALL LANDLORD STUDY ITSELF DID
REFERENCE THE RESULTS OF A
RENTAL MARKET STUDY CONDUCTED BY
TRUE ROLL FOR OPCD AND SDCI.
I THINK THIS MIGHT BE THE STUDY
THAT COUNCIL MEMBER STRAUSS
SPONSORED AND IT QUOTED A SMALL
3% DECREASE IN MOM AND POP UNITS
BETWEEN 2015 AND 2021 AND THAT
WAS FROM ABOUT 35,000 UNITES TO
ABOUT 34,000 UNITS AND A 40%
INCREASE IN SMALL LANDLORDOWNED
UNITS TWINE 2015 OWNED
UNITS TWINE 2015 AND 2021.
BOTH CATEGORIES INDICATE THAT
LANDLORDS WHO OWN FEWER THAN
THREE UNITS TOTAL, TOGETHER THAT
REPRESENTS A NET INCREASE OF
ABOUT FIVE HUNDRED UNITS OWNED
BY SMALL LANDLORDS FROM 2015 TO
2021.
SO THE RRIO DATA IS SOMETHING WE
NEED TO KEEP OUR EYES ON BUT I'M
REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE
ADDITIONAL WORK.
FROM THE CITY AUDITOR'S OFFICE
AND THE CONTINUED CONVERSATION
HERE, SO THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT COMMENT.
YOU HAVE A STATEMENT?
>> YEAH, I HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT
THE TRUE ROLL STUDY.
I WANTED TO KNOW THAT IT ONLY
COVERS THE PERIOD BETWEEN 2015
AND 2020 SO IT DOESN'T TAKE INTO
ACCOUNT ANY IMPACTS OF THE
PANDEMIC OR THE MAJORITY OF THE
NEW MUNICIPAL REGULATIONS WHICH
STARTED TO GO INTO EFFECT IN
2019 TO 2020 TOWARDS THE END OF
THEIR STUDY PERIOD BUT THAT
DIDN'T FULLY IMPACT SMALL
LANDLORDS UNTIL 2020 AND BEYOND.
THEY ALSO DIDN'T ACCOUNT FOR ANY
OF THE RRIO DATA SO THERE'S
REALLY DISTECTI BETWEEN THEY'RE
DATA AND CONCLUSIONS AND I THINK
IT WARRANTS FURTHER BETWEEN THE
AND CONCLUSIONS AND I THINK IT
WARRANTS FUC BETWEEN THEY'RE DAA
AND CONCLUSIONS AND I THINK IT
WARRANTS FUO BETWEEN THEY'RE
DATA AND CONCLUSIONS AND I THINK
IT WARRANTS FN BETWEEN THEY'RE
DATA AND CONCLUSIONS AND I THINK
IT WARRANTS FN BETWEEN THEY'RE
DATA AND CONCLUSIONS AND I THINK
IT WARRANTS F BETWEEN THEY'RE
DATA AND CONCLUSIONS AND I THINK
IT WARRANTS FC BETWEEN THEY'RE
DATA AND CONCLUSIONS AND I THINK
IT WARRANTS FT BETWEEN
THEY'RE DATA AND CONCLUSIONS AND
I THINK IT WARRANTS FURTHER
STUDY.
>> AGAIN, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE
GETTING AT IS THAT WE HAVE
PIECES OF INFORMATION FROM
DIFFERENT LOCATIONS AND
DIFFERENT STUDIES AND I COMMEND
THAT MY COLLEAGUES HAVE CALLED
FOR THE STAKEHOLDER PROCESS AND
THE TRUE ROLL REPORT.
I BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS A STUDY
IN 25018, SO WE018, SO WE HAVE
PIECES AND THE REASON WE SHOULD
HAVE MORE DIALOGUE WITH THE
STAKEHOLDERS SO WE CAN HAVE MORE
COMMUNICATION ABOUT THIS MARKET.
>> I HAVE A SEPARATE QUESTION
AND THIS MIGHT BE SOMETHING
THAT'S BEING DISCUSSED IN THE
SUSTAINABILITY AND RENTERS
COMMITTEE BECAUSE OF DISCUSSION
AROUND LATE FEES BUT FOLLOWING
UP ON PRESIDENT JUAREZ' LINE OF
CAMPING,, IQ, IUE, IS, ITI, IG,W
WHETHER OR NOT.
IT'S CONVENTIONAL WISDOM THAT
LATE FEES INCENTIVIZE TIMELY
PAYMENT BUT I WONDER IF THERE'S
DATA THAT DEMONSTRATES THAT.
THIS COUNCIL ELIMINATED LATE
FEES FOR OVERDUE LIBRARY BOOKS
BECAUSE OF THE POLICE CHIEF THAT
LATE FEES PENALIZED PEOPLE FOR
FOR NONPAYMENT WHEN THE
NONPAYMENT IS BASED ON THEIR
INABILITY TO PAY NOT THEIR LACK
OFIS BASED ON THEIR INABILITY T
PAY NOT THEIR LACK OF
WILLINGNESS TO PAY AND ALSO
RESULTED IN LOSS OF USE OF THE
LIBRARY SO WE HAVE SEEN POSITIVE
IMPACTS ON THAT.
THIS IS NOT WHERE WE'RE
DELIBERATE ON THE LATE FEE
LEGISLATION BY I WOULD LOVE TO
KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS
CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THAT LATE
FEES DO INCENTIVIZE TIMELY
PAYMENTS, PARTICULARLY WHEN
YOU'RE LOOKING AT PEOPLE WHO ARE
TRULY LIVING PAYCHECK TO
PAYCHECK AND MAY NOT BE MAKING
THE DECISIONS TO PAY THEIR RENT
LATE BECAUSE OF CHOICE.
>> JUST REALLY QUICKLY ANSWER
WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S DATA.
>> I LOVE THE LIBRARY AND SO I
KNOW THEY HAVE ELIMINATED LATE
FEES BUT LIBRARIES ARE A
NON-PROFIT AND THEY'RE
CONTROLLED BY THE GOVERNMENT.
SMALL HOUSING PROVIDERS HAVE
INDIVIDUALS AND ALSO A SMALL
BUSINESS.
A CLOSER COMPARISON WOULD BE
SOMETHING LIKE CAR PAYMENTS
WHERE YOU ARE INCENTIVIZED TO
PAY FOR YOUR CAR AND MAKE SURE
YOU PAY ON TIME OR ELSE IT COULD
BE REPOSSESSED OR THERE'S COSTS
FROM THE LENDER AND THOSE THINGS
ARE JUST LIKE ATTORNEY
CHRISTOPHER CUTTING SHARED ARE
NOT JUST COMING OUT OF THIN AIR.
THESE LATE FEES HAVE AN
ATTACHMENT OF PAYING FOR AN
ATTORNEY TO REVIEW THE PAPERWORK
TO MAKE SURE IT COVERS
EVERYTHING THAT'S LEGALLY
MANDATED TO BE THERE.
THE SERVICING OF IT, IF THE
LANDLORD MISSES THEIR PAYMENT,
THERE'S A FEE ATTACHED SO IT'S
MORE OF A CHAIN AND A PROCESS
AND IT'S ALSO RELATED TO THE
FACT THAT THIS IS A SMALL
BUSINESS, AT THE END OF THE DAY.
>> I WASN'T ASKING WHETHER OR
NOT THE ENTITY CHARGING LATE
FEES NEEDS THE RENT OR NEEDS THE
BOOKS RETURNED OR ANYTHING LIKE
THAT, I WAS ASKING DO LATE FEES
WORK?
DO THEY RESULT IN MORE TIMELY
PAYMENTS AND WHETHER OR NOT
THERE'S DATA TO SHOW THAT?
>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT DATA, I
WILL JUST ANSWER FROM
EXPERIENCE.
I THINK WHAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED
SO THAT, YEAH, IT WORKS BECAUSE
WE DON'T HAVE TO APPLY THEM VERY
OFTEN.
USUALLY OUR PRACTICE HAS BEEN
THE FIRST TIME A TENANT IS LATE
WE WILL FORGIVE THAT AND WE HAVE
ONLY APPLIED LATE FEES VERY,
VERY RARELY.
IT REALLY IS FOR THE OCCASIONAL
USE.
IF SOMEONE IS CROONICALLY HAVING
FINANCIAL ISSUES, WE WOULD MOVE
FINANCIAL ISSUES, WE WHONICALLY
FINANCIAL ISSUES, WE WRONICALLYG
FINANCIAL ISSUES, WE WOULD MOVE
ONTO SOMETHING ELSE.
IT WOULDN'T BE EFFECTIVE IN THAT
SITUATION.
MOST OF THE TIME, OUR TENANTS
ARE PAYING AND IT INCENTIVIZES
ON TIME PAYMENT AND I THINK THE
AMOUNT SHOULD BE COMMENSURATE TO
THE THING IT'S POLICE DEPARTMENT
TO.
>> OKAY.
I KNOW THAT WHEN MY PARKING
TICKET GOES UP AFTER NOT PAYING
IT FOR A WHILE, THAT MAY BE A
GOOD SOURCE OF DATA BUT THE
POINT IS IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO BE
ABLE TO ASK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
DIRECTLY CHARGING WHY THEY'RE
CHARGING SO THAT'S ANOTHER
BENEFIT TO HAVE FOLKS HERE TO
ANSWER QUESTIONS.
I'M GOING TO GO OUT ON A LIMB
HERE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
BECAUSE OUR NEXT ITEM ON THE
AGENDA, THE SPEAKERS ARE HERE.
WE ALL HAVE AN INTEREST IN
HELPING THESE SMALL HOUSING
PROVIDERS TO STAY IN BUSINESS
AND CONTINUE OFFER HOUSING.
IF THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS, THEY
ARE LIKELY TO SELL AND THAT
PROPERTY IS REDEVELOPED FOR
MARKET RATE OR IT GOES OFF THE
MARKET FOR SOME OTHER REASON AND
THE RESULT IS THAT A RENTER
LOSES THEIR HOME AND A SMALL
BUSINESS LOSES REVENUE.
PERHAPS SOMEONE LIVING IN TOWN
DEOPINIONEDING ON THIS INCOME
LOSES A SOURCE OF CREATINGNEDIN
SOURCE OF CRPNEDING ON THIS INCA
SOURCE OF CRNEDING ON THIS INCO
A SOURCE OF CRA
SOURCE OF CREATING GENERATIONAL
WEALTH.
THE BEST THING WE CAN DO IS TO
LISTEN, START A RELATIONSHIP.
START TALKING ABOUT THE PROS AND
CONS OF FUTURE LEGISLATION
BEFORE IT'S PASSED.
TALK THROUGH HOW IT WILL BE
IMPLEMENTED.
THAT'S JUST BASICALLY GOOD
GOVERNANCE TO ME AND SO I
BELIEVE THAT WE DO HAVE TO THINK
IN THE LONG TERM ABOUT THE MOST
VULNERABLE PEOPLE HERE AND
THEY'RE NOT THE PROPERTY OWNERS,
THEY ARE ULTIMATELY THE RANTERS
AND SO WITH THAT, I WANT TO SAY
OF ALL THE THINGS DRIVING UP THE
COST OF RENT, ALL THE
MACROECONOMICS AND LAND VALUE,
THE ONE THING WE DO CONTROL IS
OUR REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT SO
IT'S GOOD TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN
MIND AND TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP
AND A CONVERSATION.
SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS
INITIAL OPPORTUNITY AND I
APPRECIATE YOU COMING HERE
TODAY.
I WILL GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO SAY
ANYTHING LAST.
I'M CHECKING MY COLLEAGUES HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR PROVIDING THIS
OPPORTUNITY, BUT I JUST WANT TO
LEAVE ON THIS NOTE THAT, NUMBER
ONE, THIS ISN'T A COURTROOM.
NUMBER TWO, I DON'T WANT TO SEE
US IN A POSITION WHERE WE ARE
DEMONIZING LANDLORDS OR TENANTS.
THIS IS NOT A FORUM TO SAY EVERY
TENANT IS BAD BECAUSE OF A, B,
AND C NOR THAT LANDLORDS JUST
WANT TO CHARGE FEES ALL THE
TIME.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO LIVE IN
DISTRICT FIVE AND CITY WIDE.
BACK IN 2016, WE HAD MORE LAND
OWNERS THAN RENTERS AND THOUSAND
WE HAVE MORE RENTERS THAN LAND
OWNERS WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY WE
HAVE MORE LAWS NOW.
PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO MOVE
QUICKLY, THEY DON'T WANT A CAR,
THERE'S A NEW GENERAL RIGHTS
ABOUT BUILDING WEALTH BY I WANT
TO THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THE
OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A DISCUSSION
ABOUT THE REAL IMPACTS ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT A $10 LATE FEE IS
A GOOD THING OR A BAD THING.
IS IT A GOOD POLICY OR A BAD
POLICY?
AND WHO DOES IT AFFECT?
WHAT IS THE UPSIDE?
WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE?
HOW DO WE INTELLIGENTLY AND
HONESTLY HAVE A DISCUSSION
MOVING FORWARD AND WHAT THAT
MEANS FOR RENTERS AND LANDLORDS,
SO THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
ENGAGEMENT.
ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WE'LL
MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM ON THE
AGENDA.
WILL THE CLERK PLEASE READ IT.
>> AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2, COUNCIL
BILL 120532, AN ORDINANCE
RELATING TO THE CITY LIGHT
DEPARTMENT, AUTHORIZING THE
DEPARTMENT TO ENTER AND
PARTICIPATE IN THE WESTERN
RESOURCE ADEQUACY PROGRAM,
INCLUDING THE ABILITY TO EXECUTE
ADDITIONAL AGREEMENTS NECESSARY
OR CONVENIENT TO PARTICIPATE IN
THE WESTERN RESOURCE ADEQUACY
PROGRAM AND RATIFYING AND
CONFIRMING CERTAIN PRIOR ACTS.
>> ALL RIGHT, WRAP IS A NEW
PLANNING AND COMPLIANCE PROGRAM
IN THE WESTERN UNITED STATES
UNITING MULTIPLE PARTICIPATING
UTILITIES AND ITS PURPOSE IS TO
ENSURE WE HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES
TO PROVIDE ELECTRIC SERVICE
UNDER A RANGE OF CONDITIONS AND
SCENARIOS WITH A SUFFICIENT
DEGREE OF RELIABILITY OR, AS
BRENDAN DESCRIBES IT IN A PIECE
PUBLISHED WITH UNCANNY, GOOD
TIMING TODAY, THIS MORNING,
ACTUALLY, THINK OF THE WRAP AS A
NEIGHBORHOOD PACT IN WHICH EACH
NEIGHBOR SHOWS THE OTHERS IT HAS
ENOUGH RESOURCES TO MEET ITS OWN
NEEDS PLUS A LITTLE EXTRA FOR
ANYONE IN A PINCH.
SO IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS
LEGISLATION, NOW THAT WE HAVE
THE FEDERAL APPROVAL AND THE
SPECIFICS, THIS IS BEFORE US
NOW, SO WITH THAT, I WILL ASK
THE PRESENTERS TO INTERVIEWS
YOURSELVES AND I WILL NOTE THAT
THERE WERE MEMOS CIRCULATED FROM
CITY LIGHT AND ERIC McCONAGHY IN
ADVANCE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, COUNCIL
MEMBERS.
MY NAME IS DEBRA SMITH, THE
MANAGER AND CEO OF CITY LIGHT.
IT WAS EXCITING TO SEE THE
ARTICLE IN THE TIMES TODAY.
DID A GREAT JOB EXPLAINING.
I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE HERE, I
THINK THEY DID SUCH A GOOD JOB
BUT THAT'S PROBABLY CUT TO THE
CHASE.
I WANTED TO TIE A BOW ON SOME OF
WHAT WAS SAID IN THAT ARTICLE.
IN THE WEST, WE ARE THE ONLY
CITY NOT PARTICIPATING IN A
REGIONAL ORGANIZATION.
RTOs, WHICH ARE REGIONAL
TRANSMISSION LEA ORGANIZATIONS
AND ISO, INDEPENDENT SYSTEMORGAD
ISO, INDEPENDENT SYSTEM
OPERATORS.
THEY'RE BASICALLY THE SAME BUT
ONE IS WITHIN STATE AND THE
OTHER IS RIDGE KNOLL, BETWEEN
STATES.
NEW YORK PARTICIPATES, BETWEEN .
NEW YE, BETWEEN STATES.
NEW YG, BETWEEN STATES.
NEW YI, BETWEEN STATES.
NEW YO, BETWEEN STATES.
NEW YN, BETWEEN STATES.
NEW YAL, BETWEEN
STATES.
NEW Y
RIGHT NOW WE DO HAVE WORK THAT
HAPPENS, THERE ARE OTHER
ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LOOKING
AT THAT BUT IN TERMS OF A TRUE
ORGANIZED FUNCTION WITH
DECISIONS BEING MADE ABOUT WHERE
THE NEXT ROUTE MIGHT TAKE PLACE,
WE DON'T HAVE THAT.
NUMBER TWO, AN RTO PROVIDES
RESOURCE PLANNING AND IN THE
WEST, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE
RESOURCE PLANNING, THE FIRST TO
TAKE THIS ON AND THE LAST PIECE
IS MARKETS.
THE ARTICLE IN THE TIMES TODAY
THEY TALKED ABOUT THE INTERPLAY
BETWEEN MARKETS AND RESOURCE
ADEQUACY AND THE POINT THERE IS
THAT THEY'RE BOTH COMPONENTS OF
A REGIONAL TRANSMISSION
ORGANIZATION BUT WE'RE NOT THERE
YET IN THE WEST.
THE DRIVER, AGAIN, AS DESCRIBED
VERY WELL, IS THE NEED TO
INTEGRATE ADDITIONAL, RENEWABLE,
INTERMITTENT RESOURCES INTO THE
REGION.
THOSE ARE CARBON-FREE RESOURCES
AND WITHOUT A TRUE RTO, BRINGING
THE MARKET FUNCTION, BRINGING
THE RESOURCE ADEQUACY FUNCTION
TOGETHER IN AN ORGANIZED WAY IN
THE WEST WILL BE THE PATH
FORWARD FOR US TO CONTINUE TO
INTEGRATE RENEWABLE RESOURCES.
WITH THAT, I WILL TURN THINGS
OVER TO MY PARTNER HERE, SIOBHAN
AND YOU CAN GO DOWN THE ROW.
>> THANK YOU, I'M SIOBHAN AND
I'M THE MANAGER AT CITY LIGHT.
I'M JEFF WOLF, THE LEGAL ADVISOR
FOR SEATTLE CITY LIGHT.
>> I'M EMEKA.
>> AND I'M ERIC McCONAGHY, THE
COUNCIL CENTRAL STAFF.
>> THANK YOU.
TODAY WE'RE GOING TO ASK FOR
YOUR APPROVAL TO EXECUTE AN
AGREEMENT TO JOIN THE WESTERN
RESOURCE ADEQUACY PROGRAM.
WE PROVIDE ADD MEMO AND A
BRIEFING IN JANUARY ABOUT THIS
PROGRAM AND THE PROGRAM HAS NOW
RECEIVED THE FEDERAL APPROVAL
THAT IT NEEDS TO MOVE TO
NONBINDING OPERATIONAL STATUS.
IN ORDER FOR US TO CONTINUE
PARTICIPATING IN THIS PROGRAM,
WE DO FEED TO JOIN IT OFFICIALLY
THROUGH THE EXECUTION OF THE
WRAP AGREEMENT.
WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT
IS RESOURCE ADEQUACY.
RESOURCE ADEQUACY IS A
REGULATORY CONSTRUCT TO ENSURE
WE MEET ELECTRICITY DEMAND UNDER
A BROAD RANGE OF RESTRICTIONS
AND INCORPORATES PLANNING AROUND
THAT TO ENSURE WE HAVE RESOURCES
AND TO MAKE SURE RESOURCES ARE
AVAILABLE WHEN NEEDED TO SERVE
LOAD.
AS MENTIONED IN THE
INTRODUCTION, IF WE HAD AN
ORGANIZED MARKET IN THE WEST,
RESOURCE ADEQUACY WOULD BE PART
OF THAT MARKET.
WE HAVE BEEN WORKING TO FORM THE
WESTERN RESOURCE ADEQUACY
PROGRAM TO PROVIDE THIS
FUNCTION.
THIS PROGRAM IS NOT A MARKET AND
IT DOES NOT COMMIT US OR
PREDISPOSE US TO COMMITTING TO A
MARKET IN THE FUTURE AND IT WAS
CREATED TO MAKE SURE THAT'S
CLEAR.
YOU CAN GO AHEAD TO THE NEXT
SLIDE.
THE NEXT THING I WANT TO TALK
ABOUT IS WHY ARE WITH WE DOING
THIS NOW?
THERE HAVE BEEN A RECENT NUMBER
OF STUDIES DEMONSTRATING THERE'S
POTENTIAL FOR RESOURCE PITFALL
ACROSS THE WEST IN THIS DECADE.
ONE IS THE RETIREMENT OF FOSSIL
FUEL RESOURCE AS WE MOVE TOWARD
DECARBONIZATION.
THOSE ARE BEING RELACED BY
INTERMITTENT RESOURCES.
THIS IS BEING EXACERBATED BY
LOAD GROWTH AS WELL AS THE
ACCELERATION OF ELECTRIFICATION
IN BUILDINGS AND TRANSPORTATION.
IN ADDITION TO, THAT SEEING MORE
EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS AND MORE
DROUGHT EVENTS AFFECTING US IN
AN AREA WHERE WE DEPEND ON
HYDROELECTRIC GENERATION.
TO GET INTO WHAT IS WRAP, THIS
IS THE FIRST REGIONAL
RELIABILITY PROGRAM TO ADDRESS
THE CHALLENGES WE DISCUSSED ON
THE PREVIOUS SLIDE AND TO ENSURE
WE HAVE SUFFICIENT RESOURCES TO
MEET OUR DEMAND.
CURRENTLY, EACH UTILITY IS
PLANNING INDIVIDUALLY.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR NEIGHBORS
ARE DOING AND THEY DON'T KNOW
WHAT WE'RE DOING AND THIS CAN
RESULT IN OVER PROCUREMENT OR
UNDER PROCUREMENT.
THE WRAP SEEKS TO CHANGE THIS.
WE HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE
DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROGRAM
SENSE THE BEGINNING A COUPLE OF
YEARS AGO AND WE PLAYED AN
ACTIVE ROLE IN SHAPING THE
DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROGRAM.
IT'S A VOLUNTARY PROGRAM.
WE CAN CHOOSE WHETHER THE JOIN
OR NOT JOIN BUT WE THINK THERE'S
BENEFIT TO JOINING AROUND
RELIABILITY.
WE JOIN THIS BY SIGNING THAT
WRAP AGREEMENT WE'RE HERE TO
DISCUSS.
NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
THE PRIMARY GOAL AND BENEFIT OF
THIS PROGRAM IS ENHANCED GRID
pRELIABILITY.
THIS PROGRAM IS GOING TO ENABLE
THE INTEGRATION OF RENEWABLE
ENERGY AND DEEPER PENETRATION OF
RENEWABLE ENERGY ON THE GRID.
THE PROGRAM'S BROAD GEOGRAPHIC
FOOTPRINT SPORTS THIS.
DIFFERENT RESOURCES ARE BETTER
SUITED TO DIFFERENT REGIONS SO
WE HAVE MORE SOLAR IN THE
SOUTHWEST.
HAVING A BROAD, REGIONAL
FOOTPRINT ALLOWS US TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF THIS DIVERSITY.
THE COORDINATION ACROSS THE
REGION ALLOWS US TO MAKE SURE
WE'RE NOT OVER OR UNDER BUILDING
LEADING TO A RESOURCE MIX AND
MEET OUR CARBONIZATION GOALS.
IN THE WEST WE HAVE SOME OF THE
MOST AGGRESSIVE DECARBONIZATION
GOALS AND WRAP IS HELPING US
MEET THOSE GOALS.
WE THINK THIS WILL HELP OUR
CUSTOMERS THROUGH BETTER
PLANNING, BETTER RELIABILITY BY
COORDINATING WITH OUR REGIONAL
COUNTERPARTS.
NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
THE WRAP IS A PLANNING AND
COMPLIANCE FRAMEWORK.
IT WAS DEVELOPED BASED ON
SIMILAR PROGRAMS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, IDENTIFYING THOSE BEST
PRACTICES AND TAILORING THOSE.
THERE ARE TWO PRIMARY ASPECTS TO
THE PROGRAM, THERE'S THE FORWARD
SHOWING PROGRAM AND THE
OPERATIONS PROGRAM.
IN THE FORWARD SHOWING PROGRAM,
WE'RE SETTING A REGIONAL
RELIABILITY METRIC AND
IDENTIFYING A CONSISTENT
APPROACH TO COUNTING RESOURCES.
TO COMPLY, EACH PARTICIPANT WILL
BE REQUIRED TO DEMONSTRATE
SUFFICIENT CAPACITY TO MEET THAT
METRIC AND THIS WILL HAPPEN
SEVEN MONTHS IN ADVANCE BEFORE
WE NEED THAT ELECTRICITY AND TO
MAKE SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH
RESOURCES TO MEET OUR EXPECTED
PEAK LOAD AND MARGIN ON TOP OF
THAT.
THE SECOND PART OF THE PROGRAM
IS THE OPERATIONAL PROGRAM.
THIS IS THE PART OF THE PROGRAM
THAT ALLOWS US TOO POOL AND
SHERRYD
SHESH
SHARE RESOURCES.
AS WE GET CLOSER, OUR LOAD MIGHT
CHANGE, OUR VARIABLE RESOURCES
MIGHT PRODUCE MORE OR LESS THAN
WE'RE EXPECTING SO YOU MAY HAVE
MORE OR LESS OF A SURPLUS OR A
DEAF SET COMPARED TO WHAT YOU
NEED.
THAT WILL BE SHARED WITH OTHER
PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAM.
ANY EXCHANGES LIKE THIS ARE
BILATERAL.
IT'S NOT PART OF A MARKET, IT'S
US COORDINATING WITH
PARTICIPANTS ONE ON ONE.
THIS IS JUST IDENTIFYING THE 19
PARTICIPANTS WHO HAVE SIGNED ON
TO THE PROGRAM TO DATE.
THIS DOES SHOW A WIDE DIVERSITY
OF PARTICIPANTS REGIONALLY AS
WELL AS PART OF THE REGION AND
THIS IS BENEFITTING US IN
RELIABILITY OF THE PROGRAM.
WE WANTED TO GO THROUGH WHAT THE
TIME LINE LOOKED LIKE.
THERE ARE A COUPLE OF FACES TO
THE PROGRAM.
WHEN THE TARIFF WAS APPROVED, IT
WAS CALLED THE OPERATIONAL
NONBINDING PHASE WHICH GIVES US
AND THE PROGRAM THE OPPORTUNITY
TO PROCURE WHAT IS NEEDED AND
DEVELOP THE MET RICKS AND
SPECIFIC OPERATIONAL PARAMETERS
FOR THE PROGRAM.
IN 2025, THE PROGRAM IS ENTERING
THE TRANSITIONAL PHASE, WHICH
MEANS SOME PARTICIPANTS WILL
CHOOSE TO ENTER THE BINDING
PROGRAMMENT EACH PARTICIPANT CAN
CHOOSE WHEN TO ENTER INTO THE
BINDING PROGRAM AND WE HAVE UP
TO THREE YEARS TO MAKE THAT
CHOICE.
IN 2028, THE PROGRAM WILL BECOME
FULLY BINDING ON ALL PRE THEYS
PANTS.
DURING THE NONBINDING PHASE, WE
WOULD PARTICIPATE IN THE FORWARD
SHOWINGS, IDENTIFYING WHAT
RESOURCES WE HAVE AVAILABLE.
WE WOULD PAY WRAP ADMINISTRATE I
HAVE COSTS AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO
VOTE ON STAKEHOLDER COMMITTEES
TO HELP CONTINUE TO SHAPE THE
PROGRAM.
THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS HAVE
BEEN INCLUDED IN OUR BUDGET AND
ARE ESTIMATED AT JUST UNDER
$300,000.
WE HAVE INDICATED THAT WE PLAN
TO ENTER THE BINDING PHASE AS
LATE AS POSSIBLE IN 2028 AND
THIS GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO
DEVELOP OUR RESOURCES, MAKE SURE
WE KNOW HOW THE PROGRAM WILL
AFFECT US.
WHEN WE DOCTOR THE BINDING
PHASE, THE WRAP OPERATIONS COULD
BECOME BINDING AND WE COULD FACE
CHARGES FOR NOT COME PLYING WITH
THOSE GOINGSES.
WE CAN ALSO WITH DRAW FROM THE
PROGRAM AT ANY TIME WITH TWO
YEARS NOTICE AND THAT ALLOWS THE
PROGRAM TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO
ACCOUNT FOR THE EXIT OF A
PARTICIPANT.
NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
LOOKING AT WHAT THIS ORDINANCE
DOES, IT AUTHORIZES SEATTLE CITY
LIGHT GENERAL MANAGE TO EXECUTE
THE WRAP AGREEMENT AND ANY OTHER
DOCUMENTS NEEDED FOR PAR
TISATION IN THE WRAP.
WINCE WE EXKITE THAT WRAP
AGREEMENT, WE GAIN ACCESS TO THE
PROGRAM BENEFIT BENEFITS,
INCLUDING THE ABILITY TO
PARTICIPATE IN AND SHARE
RESOURCES WITH MEMBERS.
ADDITIONALLY, WE HAVE THIS
ORDINANCE GIVING US THE ABILITY
TO CONTINUE PARTICIPATING AS
LONG AS SEEN AS PRUDENT BY THE
MANAGER OF SEATTLE CITY LIGHT.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
STAFF, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO
ADD?
>> NO, THE LAST SLIDE THERE, T
GOOD TO NOTE THAT THIS IS A ONCE
AND FOR ALL ORDINANCE THAT
ALLOWS CITY LIGHT OR A DESIGNEE
TO PARTICIPATE IN WRAP SO THAT'S
THAT THIRD BULLET REGARDING
AGREEMENTS AND AMENDMENTS AND
THERE'S A RATIFY AND CONFIRM
CLAYS HERE BECAUSE THE TIMING
THAT CITY LIGHTUSE HERE BECAUSE
THAT CITY LIGHT IS LOOKING AT
THE END OF THIS MONTH.
SHOULD THIS PASS TODAY AND THEN
TAKE FINAL ACTION NEXT WEEK,
THERE'S A WINDOW IN THERE WHERE
CITY LIGHT, WITH THAT
CONFIRMATION AND ASSURANCE WOULD
LIKE TO PARTICIPATE IN WRAP BUT
THAT WOULD BE BEFORE THE 30 DAYS
PASS FOR THE BILL TO BE REAL
LIFE LAW.
THAT ALLOWS FOR THAT ACTIVITY.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO STEAL YOUR
THUNDER BUT THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO
ADD.
>> I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN
EXPLAINING WHY WE'RE DOING WHAT
I DON'T LIKE TO DO, WHICH IS
HAVING LEGISLATION BEFORE US AN
VOTED ON THE SAME DAY,
HOPEFULLY, POSSIBLY, BUT WE ARE
UNDER A SIDE LINE NOT SET BY US
BUT BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
>> YEAH, CITY LIGHT HELPED ME
AND THE CHAIR I UNDERSTAND THE
DEADLINE THERE AND ALSO JUST
POINTING OUT THERE WAS THE
BRIEFING IN JANUARY AND
BACKGROUND WORK THAT HAPPENED
WITH THE MEMORANDA AND SO THAT
HELPS TO SUPPORT THAT.
COUNCIL DOES LIKE TO HAVE TWO
MEETINGS, IT'S A CUSTOMARY
PRACTICE THAT HELPS THINGS STAY
OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, SO JUST TO
UNDER LIE WHAT YOU SAID.
>> OKAY, WITH THAT NOTE, I'M
GOING TO ASK A QUESTION WHICH IS
WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE?
THIS SEEMS LIKE, TO USE THE
CLO
COLLOQUIAL NO-BRAINER BUT AM I
MISUNDERSTANDING?
>> THE WEST HAS NOT HAD IT YET.
I THINK BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING
INTO SCARCITY ITEMS THAT WE
IDENTIFIED, THAT IS THE REASON
THIS HAS BEEN COMING ABOUT OVER
THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS ALONG
WITH OUR GOALS FOR DECOR
BONNIZATION.
WHEN WE EVALUATED THE DOWNSIDE
DECARBONBONNIZATION.
WHEN WE EVALUATED THEIZATION.
WHEN WE EVALUATED THE DOWNSIDE
COMPARED TO THE BENEFITS
[INDISCERNIBLE] TO JOIN THE
BINDING PHASE SO WE CAN MAKE
SURE WE'RE SET UP CORRECTLY TO
MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS.
>> THANK YOU.
COUNCIL MEMBER STRAUSS?
>> THANK YOU, CHAIR, AND THINK
ALL FOR YOUR PRESENTATION AND
FOR BRIEFING ME LAST WEEK.
IT REALLY WAS VERY HELPFUL.
JUST FOR THE RECORD TO STATE WE
DID HAVE THIS IN JANUARY.
I'M COMFORTABLE, PERSONALLY,
ALSO PAUSE I HAVE HAD TWO
PRIVATE MEETINGS ABOUT THIS ON
TOP OF ALL OF MY GEEK LEVEL
INTERESTS, SO I KNOW THAT IT
ABSOLUTELY MEETS THE UNSAID RULE
OF HAVING ITEMS ON COMMITTEE
TWICE.
REALLY WELL DONE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> COUNCIL MEMBER HERBOLD.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
HIGHLIGHTING THE ADVANTAGES OF
HAVING BRIEFINGS PRIOR TO A
COMMITTEE MEETING, I APPRECIATE
SEATTLE CITY LIGHT REACHING OUT
TO ME LAST WEDNESDAY AND
OFFERING A BRIEFING AND I
APOLOGIZE THAT I DID NOT GET IT
SCHEDULED, SO I'M ABOUT TO ASK A
QUESTION THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN
COFFERED IN THE PREVIOUS
COMMITTEE BRIEFING OR MIGHT HAVE
HAD ANSWERED IN AN IN-OFFICE
MEETING.
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO
UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT MORE IN
DEPTH ON THE AUTHORIZATION OF
THE ORDINANCE.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THE ORDINANCE
AUTHORIZES SEATTLE CITY LIGHT TO
INTO ENTER AN AGREEMENT.
WHAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT IS DOES
THAT MEAN THAT THE GENERAL
MANAGER HAS AN OPTION TO
WITHDRAW THROUGH 2026 WITHOUT
COUNCIL ACTION?
MOST AGREEMENTS THE COUNCIL
AUTHORIZES TO ENTER INTO THE
AGREEMENT ONLY AND SECONDLY, I
WOULD LOVE A LITTLE BIT MORE
INFORMATION AND, AGAIN,
APOLOGIZE IF YOU DELVED INTO
THIS ALREADY, BUT WHAT DOES IT
MEAN TO BE WITHIN THE RANGE OF
PRINT UTILITY PRACTICES?
I WOULDUTILITY PRACTICES?
I WOPUTILITY PRACTICES?
I WORUTILITY PRACTICES?
I WOUTILITY PRACTICES?
I WODUTILITY PRACTICES?
I WOEUTILITY PRACTICES?
I WONUTILITY PRACTICES?
I WOUTILITY PRACTICES?
I WO UTILITY PRACTICES?
I WOULD LOVE TO GET SOME REAL
WORLD EXAMPLES OF THAT.
>> MAYBE I WILL TAKE A STAB AT
THIS AND WE HAVE LEGAL HERE AS
WELL BUT I THINK TO TAKE THE
QUESTIONS BACKWARDS, THE CHANGE
OF PUTTING UTILITY PRACTICES
ENCOME PASS THE KINDS OF THINGS
THAT WE REVIEW FROM A PLANNING
PERSPECTIVE.
THERE ARE PRACTICES AND
STANDARDS THAT ARE FOLLOWED BY
FOLKS IN OUR INDUSTRY THAT WE
EVALUATE OURSELVES AND BENCHMARK
OURSELVES AGAINST.
I THINK IT'S WORTHY OF NOTING,
AGAIN, THAT THIS TARIFF AND
THINGS LIKE IT HAVE BEEN
APPROVED BY THE FEDERAL
REGULATORY COMMISSION WHICH
OVERSEES THE REASONABLENESS OF
THESE TARIFFS AND THEY FOUND IT
TO BE WITHIN THAT RANGE OF
PRACTICES SO THAT'S MAYBE JUST A
COUPLE OF NOTES ON THAT AND TO
ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I BELIEVE
YOU ARE CORRECT, THAT THE
DECISION TO REMAIN OR EXIT THE
PROGRAM WOULD BE INCORPORATED
WITHIN THE ORDINANCE AS IT
STANDS.
>> A FOLLOWUP ON THAT IF I MAY?
>> YES.
>> I'M STILL STRUGGLING WITH THE
PURPOSE OF THAT LANGUAGE, THE
PURPOSE OF THE LANGUAGE AS LONG
AS THE GM BELIEVES IT'S WITHIN
PRACTICES.
IF THE AGREEMENT IS ONLY TO
AUTHORIZE CITY LIGHT TO
PARTICIPATE IN THE WRAP, THAT
SIGNATURES THAT THE GM CAN
DECIDE NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE
WRAP.
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS
ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE?
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO COME BACK TO
THE COUNCIL TO DIRECT THE
MANAGER TO WITHDRAW IF THE WRAP
IS NOT WITHIN THE RANGE -- IS
NOT ACTING WITHIN THE RANGE OF
PRUDENT UTILITY PRACTICES.
>> COUNCIL MEMBER, JEFF WOLF.
>> IT GIVES THE ABILITY TO SEE
WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE WRAP AT
THE TIME AND WE WILL BE
OBSERVING HOW THE WRAP IS BEING
ADMINISTERED AND IF WE DON'T
HAVE THE CONFIDENCE THAT IT'S
BEING OPERATED APPROPRIATELY, WE
HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE THAT
DECISION WOULD GOING BACK TO
COUNCIL
>> AND THAT'S MY POINT.
THE GM HAS THE FLEXIBILITY TO
MAKE THE DECISION WITHOUT COMING
BACK TO COUNCIL WITHOUT THE
LANGUAGE.
WE'RE ONLY APPROVING ENTERING
INTO THE AGREEMENT.
THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT TO COME
BACK TO COUNCIL.
ANYWAY, I WILL TAKE MY QUESTION
OFFLINE.
I'M SATISFIED WITH THE POLICY
OBJECTIVES OF THE AGREEMENT.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE
MOVE FORWARD AND I DON'T WANT TO
HOLD US UP ON QUESTIONS I SHOULD
HAVE ASKED BEFOREHAND.
THINK.
>> ALL RIGHT, IF THERE ARE NO
OTHER QUESTIONS, I MUST MOVE
THIS LEGISLATION SO I MOVE THAT
THE COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS PASSAGE
OF COUNCIL BILL 120532.
IS THIS A SECOND?
>> SECOND.
>> THANK YOU, IT'S BEEN MOVED
AND SECONDED TO RECOMMEND
PASSAGE OF THE COUNCIL BILL.
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR
COMMENTS?
>> I HAVE ONE.
>> GO AHEAD.
I JUST WANT TO SAY HIGH TO JEFF.
HEY, JEFF.
MR. WOLF, FORMER LAW PARTNER.
>> HI, DEBORA, HOW ARE YOU?
>> YOU CAN SEE HOW I'M DOING,
GOOD TO SEE YOU, BUDDY.
>> YOU, TOO.
>> I HAVE TO NOTE FOR THE
EXTENSIVE REMINDERS ABOUT IDEAL
PROCESS, YOUR LEADERSHIP IS KEY
HERE AS THE UTILITY THAT WAS AN
IMPETUS BEHIND WHAT I BELIEVE IS
EXTREMELY PRUDENT FOR UTILITIES
ACROSS THE WESTERN REGION
BECAUSE WE RELY ON EACH OTHER
AND IT'S BETTER TO KNOW WHAT OUR
NEIGHBORING JURISDICTIONS ARE
DOING SO WE DON'T OVER OR UNDER
INVEST SO I RECOGNIZE YOUR
LEADERSHIP ON THIS AND ALSO YOU
MENTIONED THIS, DEBORA, IN THE
BEGINNING BUT YOU DID EMPHASIZE
THIS WILL ENABLE US TO BETTER
AND MORE EFFICIENTLY USE OUR
RENEWABLE SOURCES OF ENERGY AND
THAT CAN, PERHAPS, HELP WITH
FUTURE PRODUCTION ALSO, SO THAT
HELPS WITH THE RENEWABLENESS OF
OUR PORTFOLIO.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
>> I WANT TO REALLY APPRECIATE
YOUR COMMENT ABOUT LEADERSHIP
AND WE KNOW THAT'S ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT THIS COUNCIL WE ASK.
FROM THE FERK ORDER, THEY SAY IN
ACCEPTING THE FILING,
[INDISCERNIBLE] SUPPORT EFFORTS
IN THE CONNECTION AND I THINK
IT'S WORTHY OF NOTE THAT THE
LEADERSHIP OF DEBORA SMITH IN
THE REGION AND THE RELATIONSHIPS
BUILT ARE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT
TO THE SHARED ENERGY FUTURE THAT
WE'RE TRYING TO BUILT BUILD,UIL
YOU FOR THAT ACKNOWLEDGMENT
THANK YOU.
>> COUNCIL PRESIDENT AH REZ?
>> YES.
>> COUNCIL MEMBER STRAUSS?
>> YES.
COUNCIL MEMBER HERBOLD?
>> YES.
>> CHAIR NELSON?
>> AYE.
>> FOUR IN FAVOR, ZERO OPPOSING.
THANK YOU AND THANK YOU FOR THE
PRESENTATION.
THE BILL PASSES AND IT WILL
BE -- OH, GO AHEAD.
>> YOU CAN FINISH.
>> I WAS JUST FUMBLING ALL BY
MYSELF.
>> I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU
AND THE TEAM.
CEO SMITH, WHAT AN HONOR IT IS
TO SEE YOU THIS MORNING.
I WANT TO JUST TAKE THIS MOMENT
TO HIGHLIGHT THAT WHEN SUCCESS
IS OCCURRING WELL, NO ONE
NOTICES BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS
FUNCTIONING AS IT SHOULD AND
SUCCESS IS NOT BY CHANCE, IT'S
BY HARD WORK, COLLABORATION,
COOPERATION AND SERVING THE
PUBLIC AND WHAT I'VE GOT TO
WITNESS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS
UNDER YOUR LEADERSHIP, CEO, IS A
VERY STABLE ORGANIZATION THAT
HAD GONE THROUGH INSTABILITY FOR
SOME TIME.
IN MY FIRST TERM IN OFFICE, I
HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE OF GETTING
TO WATCH CITY LIGHT COME BEFORE
US WITH CHRIS PERCENT, CLEAN,
CLEAR OBJECTIVES THAT ARE BEING
ACHIEVED AND THIS IS NOT BY
ACCIDENT AND IT'S ALSO, AGAIN,
WHEN THINGS ARE WORKING WELL, NO
ONE NOTICES BECAUSE THEY'RE
FUNCTIONING AS THEY SHOULD BE.
SINCE WE'RE STAYING ACROSS THE
TABLE FROM EACH OTHER, I JUST
WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT BECAUSE
WHEN THINGS FUNCTION AS THEY
SHOULD, IT GETS LOST AND THIS
TEAM IS BRINGING SUCCESS.
YOU'RE LITERALLY KEEPING OUR
LIGHTS ON.
THANKS.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU FOR NOTING THAT.
SOMETIMES I SAY IT'S LIKE HOUSE
WORK.
NOBODY NOTICES UNLESS IT'S NOT
DONE SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
BRINGING THIS FORWARD AND THIS
CONCLUDES THE -- WELL, FIRST OF
ALL LET ME SAY THIS COMES BEFORE
COUNCIL FOR FINAL CONSIDERATION
ON MARCH 28TH.
SO COUNCIL BILL 120532 HAS BEEN
RECOMMENDED TO PASS, SO THANK
YOU VERY MUCH AND HAVE A GOOD
REST OF YOUR DAY.
>> THANK YOU.
>> OKAY, SO THIS CONCLUDES THE
MARCH 22ND MEETING OF THE
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TECHNOLOGY
AND CITY LIGHT COMMITTEE.
OUR NEXT MEETING IS ON
APRIL 12TH, 2023, AT 9:30 A.M.
IT IS 11:34.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> CHAIR, I'M REQUESTING TO BE
EXCUSED ON APRIL 12TH.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
LETTING US KNOW.
BYE, EVERYBODY.
THANKS.