>>> THIS IS THE REGULARLY
SCHEDULED MEETING OF THE
SUSTAINABLE RENTERS MEETING.
TODAY IS FRIDAY, JANUARY 20th,
23. IT IS 9:30 A.M. I AM THE
CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE, SAWANT.
WILL THE CLERK PLEASE CALL
THE ROLL?
>> COUNCILMAN ELSE?
>> PRESENT.
>> COUNCILMAN JUAREZ?
>> I BELIEVE THAT IS EL
PRESIDENTE JUAREZ.
>> COUNCILMEMBER LEWIS?
>> PRESENT.
>> FIVE PRESENT.
>> TODAY'S COMMITTEE HAS ONE
POINT ON THE AGENDA TO HEAR
FROM RENTERS RIGHTS ADVOCATING
FOR NEW LEGISLATION THAT WOULD
LIMIT THE LATE FEES LANDLORDS
CAN CHARGE FOR OVERDUE RENT. MY
OFFICE SUPPORTS THIS
LEGISLATION AND HAS ASKED
COUNSEL CENTRAL STAFF TO
PREPARE IT. GIVEN THE WORKLOAD
OF THE ATTORNEYS OFFICE, WHO
WILL REVIEW ANY NEW
LEGISLATION, THEY HAVE
ESTIMATED THE COMMITTEE CAN
CONSIDER A DRAFT IN MID-TO-LATE
FEBRUARY. TODAY'S DISCUSSION IS
MEANT TO GIVE MEMBERS OF THE
SUSTAINABILITY AND RENTERS
RIGHT COMMITTEE, AND MEMBERS OF
THE PUBLIC, AN OVERVIEW OF THE
CONCEPT OF LEGISLATION CAPPING
LATE FEES AND WHY RENTERS NEED
IT . WITHOUT CAPS ON LATE FEES
RENTERS CAN BE TRAPPED IN A
CYCLE OF DEBT BY OVERDUE RENT
WORSE THAN THE MOST PREDATORY
CREDIT CARDS. SOME CITIES IN
WASHINGTON STATE ALREADY
LIMITS LATE FEES IN CERTAIN
WAYS. WE DO HAVE SOMETHING TO
COMPARE WITH. ALONG WITH
PITFALLS TO AVOID. TODAY'S
PRESENTERS WILL DESCRIBE THESE
IN DETAIL. MY OFFICE SUPPORTS
CAPPING LATE FEES AT $10 A
MONTH, AS IT HAS BEEN IN DONE
IN AUBURN, WHICH IS THE BEST
MODEL CURRENTLY IN WASHINGTON
STATE. WE HAVE COURSE SUPPORTS
CLOSING LOOPHOLES . BEFORE WE
BEGIN THAT AGENDA ITEM WE WILL
HEAR PUBLIC COMMENT. HOW MANY
PEOPLE DO WE HAVE SIGNED UP?
>> THERE ARE THREE SPEAKERS .
>> THE SPEAKERS WILL HAVE TWO
MINUTES EACH. TED WILL READ
OUT THE NAME OF THE SPEAKERS IN
ORDER OF SIGNING UP . FOR
PEOPLE SPEAKER REMOTELY, YOU
WILL BE PROMPTED TO UNMUTE
YOURSELF . PLEASE HIT START
AND SIX ON YOUR PHONE TO UNMUTE
AND BEGIN. TED, LET'S BEGIN
WITH THE FIRST SPEAKER.
>> WE WILL START WITH CAROLYN
MALONE , FOLLOWED BY OUR REMOTE
SPEAKERS.
>> GO AHEAD. TED.
>> I AM CAROLYN MALONE. HAVE
BEEN HERE MANY TIMES BEFORE
BECAUSE DAILY I LIVE IN A
HOUSE IN LIMBO AND THREATS OF
EVICTION FROM THE WHITAKER
CATHOLIC SERVICES EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR BECAUSE I WILL NOT
SUBMIT TO -- COMPLIANCE. IT'S
AN ALGORITHM THAT ALLOWS
LANDLORDS TO CHARGE ANY AMOUNT
OF RENT. THIS RENT, MY RENT,
I'VE GIVEN YOU A COPY . PLEASE
DON'T CAUSE MY STOMACH TO
QUIVER. MY RENT PAYMENT DUE IS
$9050. I PAY SUBSIDIZED RENT ,
LEGALLY $325 A MONTH. BUT I
AM NOT GIVEN CREDIT FOR IT ON
THIS BILL BECAUSE WHITAKER IS
TRYING TO FORCE ME INTO THE
REAL PAGE ALGORITHM WHEREAS
RENT SHE CAN DETERMINE
ARBITRARILY WHAT I MUST PAY.
AND THE MORE I PROTEST THE
HIGHER MY RENT GOES. THE
MARKET VALUE FOR MY ONE-BEDROOM
APARTMENT IS $1133. I AM
CHARGED FOR THAT WHOLE AMOUNT
, WHICH IS ABOUT 80% OF MY
INCOME. I HAVE SUBMITTED
PAPERWORK AND COPIES OF A
PERSON WHO PAYS ONLY THREE
DOLLARS A MONTH. AND THAT THREE
DOLLARS IS A CREDIT. SO
BASICALLY I DO BELIEVE I'M THE
ONLY ONE CHARGED WITH FULL
MARKET VALUE. I COME TO CITY
COUNCIL AND PROTEST . OTHER
RENTERS PAY $15 A MONTH OR
THREE DOLLARS A MONTH. THIS IS
ILLEGAL AND MUST STOP . I WILL
CONTINUE TO FIGHT AGAINST IT.
THANK YOU.
>> THE NEXT SPEAKER IS ANDY
GERALD , FOLLOWED BY AIDAN
NARDONE.
>> IN MORNING. MY NAME IS
ANGIE., LANDLORD. AS YOU BEGIN
DISCUSSING NEW LEGISLATION FOR
THE YEAR I AM HERE TO REMIND
YOU THAT YOU HAVE PASSED AN
UNPRECEDENTED FLURRY OF
REGULATIONS IN RECENT YEARS ,
WITH BROAD NEW SOCIAL
OBLIGATIONS AND MAJOR RISKS FOR
EVEN THE SMALLEST RENTAL
PROPERTY OWNERS. OUR RESULTING
IMPACT IS THAT SEATTLE IS
LOSING RENTAL HOUSING AND IT'S
BECOMING MORE EXPENSIVE. THE
NUMBER OF OPTIONS ARE
DWINDLING. BARRIERS TO
SMALL-SCALE OWNERSHIP HAVE
SKYROCKETED. THE DATA FOR
REGISTERED RENTAL UNITS IS
AVAILABLE IN THE CITY'S OPEN
DATA PORTAL. I CHECK IT ONCE A
MONTH OR SO. DO YOU? SMALL
HOUSING PROVIDERS ARE IN THE
DATABASE. MORE THAN 4000 OF
THEM RESPONDED TO A SURVEY BACK
IN 2018. WE ARE EASY TO REACH
OUT TO. AS ELECTED LEADERS IT
HAS BEEN YOUR CHOICE TO NOT
INCLUDE SMALL HOUSING PROVIDER
PERSPECTIVE IN PRESENTATION OR
DELIBERATION , WITH ONE
EXCEPTION THAT CAME FROM
OUTSIDE OF THIS COMMITTEE. LAST
YEAR THERE WAS A SMALL LAND
LORD STAKEHOLDER GROUP. HAVE
YOU READ IT? WHEN SMALL
LANDLORDS CAN CALL IN FOR
PUBLIC COMMENTS THIS COMMITTEE
CHAIR HAVE GONE OUT OF THEIR
WAY TO DISPARAGE AND OSTRACIZE
HAVING PROVIDER IN FOOT WHILE
PROVIDING NO MEANS FOR ACTUAL
DIALOGUE. FOR A CITY THAT
DESPERATELY NEEDS MORE HOUSING
THIS APPROACH IS NOT WORKING
WELL. IF YOU TALK TO SMALL
LANDLORDS YOU WILL GET YOUR
FULL OF PITFALLS, CONFUSION,
PROTECTIVE MEASURES, AND EXIT
STRATEGIES. TRUST ME, IT'S
WORTH LISTENING. IS CITY
COUNCIL INTERESTED IN LOCAL,
INDEPENDENT RENTAL HOUSING AS
PART OF OUR ECOSYSTEM IN A
DIVERSITY OF VIABLE RENTAL
HOUSING PRICES? NOT JUST
ONE-BEDROOM CORPORATE OWNED
APARTMENTS. THE NARRATIVE
DOESN'T HAVE TO CONTINUE AS A
FALSE CHOICE BETWEEN
CAPITULATING LOCAL LANDLORDS
WERE EMPOWERING TENANTS.
ENABLING AND ENCOURAGING MORE
SEATTLE FOLKS TO RENT TO ONE
ANOTHER SHOULD BE AN INTEGRAL
PART OF THE HOUSING STRATEGY.
IT NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED IN
YOUR LEGISLATIVE ACTION. THANK
YOU.
>> OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS AIDAN
NARDONE.
>> GOOD MORNING. I'M A
RESIDENT IN D6. I'M CONFUSED.
CITIZENS UTILIZE THE PUBLIC
COMMENT PERIOD AS ONE VEHICLE
TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE CITY
COUNCIL ABOUT MANY THINGS.
INCLUDING PROPOSED LEGISLATION.
HOW WOULD A CITIZEN BE ABLE
TO COMMENT ABOUT THIS PROPOSED
RENT , FEES ON OVERDUE RENT
WITHOUT ANY PROPOSED
LEGISLATION PRESENTED? I
CHECKED THE WEBSITES OF THE TWO
PRESENTERS AND THERE WAS NO
INFORMATION THERE EITHER.
TODAY'S MEETING IS A WASTE OF
TIME IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE
LEGISLATION READY TO PRESENT.
YOU SHOULD HAVE CANCELED THE
MEETING. WE WILL WAIT UNTIL
FEBRUARY TO SEE WHAT THE PLAN
IS. THIS IS INCREDIBLY POOR
PLANNING.
>> THE FINAL SPEAKER IS HOWARD
GAIL.
>> GOOD MORNING. DISTRICT 7
RENTERS SPEAKING ABOUT THE
INCREASINGLY WIDESPREAD
PRACTICE BY LANDLORDS AND
DEVELOPERS WHO, WITH THE
COOPERATION OF S PCI, NOW AVOID
SEATTLE LAWS WITH EVICTIONS
AND RENTAL INCREASES.
LANDLORDS AND DEVELOPERS , LIKE
CADENCE REALTY , HAVE
DISCOVERED A WAY TO EVICT
PEOPLE AND EXORBITANTLY RAISE
RENT WITHOUT HAVING TO PROVIDE
THE 180 DAY NOTICE AND AVOID
ALMOST ALL TENANTS RELOCATION
ASSISTANCE. ALL THE PROPERTY
OWNER CAN DO IS CLAIM THEY ARE
DOING RENOVATIONS THAT
SUPPOSEDLY COST OVER $6000.
THIS IS A SIMPLE REQUIREMENT
WHEN A DEVELOPER CAN HAVE ONE
OF ITS LLCS PURCHASE KITCHEN
CABINETS FOR A FEW HUNDRED
DOLLARS AND THEN HAVE THEIR
OTHER LLCS PAY $6001 TO
REPURCHASE AND INSTALL THEM.
CADENCE REALTY IS DOING THIS
SO AS TO FORCE PEOPLE OUT
WITHOUT PAYING MOST PEOPLE ANY
RELOCATION FEE, AND THEN RAISE
RENTS BY 70%. 70%. AS AN ADDED
BONUS, FOR THE VERY FEW TENANTS
THEY WILL APPLY -- FOR
RELOCATION ASSISTANCE. THE CITY
MUST PAY ONE HALF OF THAT
ASSISTANCE. THIS IS A FLAGRANT
ABUSE OF CITY CODE. ONE THAT
WILL WORK 48 AFFORDABLE UNITS
INTO BEING UNAFFORDABLE AND IN
THIS CASE, 48 FAMILIES. THE
PROPERTY OWNERS ARE DOING THIS
IN MANY DOZENS OF BUILDINGS ALL
ACROSS THE CITY WITH S PCI
HAPPILY ISSUING PERMITS, AS
THEY JUST DID WITH MY BUILDING
LAST WEEK, BECAUSE THEY FEAR
LEGAL ACTION FROM DEVELOPERS .
WHERE'S THEY FEEL NO THREAT
FROM DISEMPOWERED TENANTS OR
CITIES ELECTED OFFICIALS. HOW
CAN THE COUNCIL CLAIM THEY ARE
FIGHTING HOMELESSNESS WHEN THE
CITY REGULARLY ISSUES PERMITS
AROUND TENANT LAWS THAT SIMPLY
PRODUCE MORE? HOW CAN
COUNCILMEMBERS FEEL GOOD ? IN
IT NOW ONLY EXIST ON PAPER AND
NOT IN REALITY. THESE
RENOVATION EVICTIONS MUST BE
HALTED. THANK YOU.
>> THAT IS OUR FINAL SPEAKER IN
PUBLIC COMMENT.
>> THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY WHO
HAD SPOKEN IN THE PUBLIC
COMMENT PERIOD BEFORE WE BEGIN
THE ITEM I WANT TO QUICKLY
ADDRESS ONE OF THE POINTS THAT
THE LAST SPEAKER MADE ABOUT
CADENCE REAL ESTATE AND THE
SHADOW BUILDING. THANK YOU,
HOWARD, FOR MENTIONING THAT. WE
HAD HEARD THAT FROM COMMUNITY
MEMBERS. MY OFFICE IS GOING TO
BE IN TOUCH WITH THE TENANTS
THIS MORNING, FIRST THING. AND
MAKE SURE WE ARE HELPING THE
SHADOW BUILDING FIGHT BACK
AGAINST ITS LATEST ATTEMPT. I
DON'T KNOW HOW MANY REMEMBER OR
KNOW ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE DONE
ALONGSIDE THE SHADOW TENANTS IN
2019. -- THE EXAMPLE OF
TENANTS ORGANIZED ALONGSIDE
COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO STOOD
BY. -- AT THAT TIME TO EVICT
THE TENANTS. THESE ARE ALL
WORKING-CLASS OR SENIOR TENANTS
ON FIXED INCOME. WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE THAT THOSE GAINS ARE
NOT LOST AND WE WILL MAKE SURE
TO ALSO SHARE WITH THE MEMBERS
OF THE PUBLIC NEXT TIME WE ARE
HERE IN THIS COMMITTEE TO
RELATE TO THEM THE PROGRESS
THAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE
HOPEFULLY ON THE ISSUE. NOW WE
WILL BEGIN THE BRIEFING ON
CAPPING THE LATE FEES LANDLORDS
MAY CHARGE FOR OVERDUE RENT.
WE ARE JOINED FROM DEVON FROM
THE LAW CENTER. WELCOME . THANK
YOU FOR BEING HERE . I HAVE
ALREADY MADE A FEW POINTS ABOUT
THIS. OBVIOUSLY WE ARE LOOKING
FORWARD TO HEARING IT IN MORE
DETAIL FROM YOU, THE PROBLEM IS
ITSELF, HOW IT AFFECTS
RENTERS, WHAT THE LEGISLATION
WOULD DO, AND WHY IT'S
NECESSARY. PLEASE INTRODUCE
YOURSELVES FOR THE RECORD AND
THEN BEGIN YOUR PRESENTATION.
>> THANK YOU, EVERYONE. I AM
DEVON GLASER. I AM A STAFF
ATTORNEY WITH THE LAW CENTER.
AND KATE, GO AHEAD AND
INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
>> I'M KATE RUBIN. I'M THE
ORGANIZING DIRECTOR AND
CO-EXECUTOR OF BE SEATTLE.
>> I CAN'T QUITE SEE THE
SCREEN. IS THE POWERPOINT UP?
COOL. IT IS NOT PARTICULARLY
COMPLICATED. LAST TIME I HAD
TO EXPLAIN A 175 PAGE REPORT SO
I HAD LOTS AND LOTS TO ADD.
HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A
SITUATION THAT IS FACING MANY
RENTERS IN SEATTLE , AND KIND
OF A GAP IN LEGAL PROTECTIONS.
WE HAVE QUITE A FEW LAWS IN
SEATTLE THAT REGULATE SOME OF
THE INTERACTIONS. RIGHT NOW
NOTHING THAT COVERS LATE FEES
AND SO-CALLED NOTICE FEES.
WHILE SEATTLE MAY BE PREEMPTED
FROM REGULATING RENT, IT IS NOT
FOR REGULATING THE CHARGE.
THEY ARE GIVEN FREE REIGN TO
CHARGE WHATEVER THEY WANT. I
THINK SOME LANDLORDS MAY CHARGE
TOTALLY REASONABLE FEES, THEY
WOULD NOT BE IMPACTED BY THIS
LEGISLATION. OTHER LANDLORDS
CHARGE VERY HEINOUS FEES. THEY
WOULD PROBABLYFIND THAT THEIR
POWERS WOULD BE CAPPED BY THIS.
IF YOU WANT TO POP THE NEXT
TWO SLIDES, THE NEXT ONES ARE
JUST INTRODUCTIONS. WE HAVE
BEEN WORKING WITH THE HEALTHY
COALITION TO GO AROUND
DIFFERENT COUNTIES AND PASS
LEGISLATION TO PROTECT TENANTS
AND WORK IN THE GAP BETWEEN
WHAT STATE LAW ALLOWS AND WHAT
LOCAL ORDINANCES CAN REALLY DO.
SEATTLE HAS SOME REALLY GREAT
REGULATIONS. BOTH IN THE
COUNTY AND CITIES AROUND
SEATTLE THAT HAVE BEEN
EMULATING SEATTLE. THERE ARE
SOMETHING SEATTLE HAS YET TO
DO. RIGHT NOW LATE FEES ARE
COMPLETELY UNREGULATED . THEY
COULD CHARGE A $1 MILLION LATE
FEE OR A ONE PENNY LATE FEE.
SOME GUIDANCE FROM THE COUNCIL
WOULD BE REALLY GOOD. SOME CAP
AT $10 A MONTH. I THINK THAT IS
THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION WE ARE
LOOKING AT HERE. OR 1.5% OF
THE MONTHLY RENT. I THINK THAT
SOUNDS FAIR. THE SMALL
PERCENTAGE IS ACTUALLY GETTING
TO VERY HIGH AMOUNTS FOR PAYING
YOUR RENT A DAY LATE . IF YOU
WANT TO GO TWO MORE SLIDES
BECAUSE I'M NOT VERY GOOD AT
POWERPOINT. HERE WE GO. THE
LANGUAGE WE ARE LOOKING AT HERE
, THEY WOULD CAP RENT AT $10
AND THAT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE
LANGUAGE THAT SAYS, NO OTHER
FEES MAY BE CHARGED FOR
NONPAYMENT OF RENT INCLUDING
FOR THE SERVICE OF NOTICE. WHAT
I HAVE BEEN SEEING IN SEATTLE
AND OTHER CITIES AS A STAFF
ATTORNEY WITH THE LAW CENTER,
THEY ARE CHARGED FEES FOR THE
DELIVERY OF NOTICES. WHENEVER
YOU ARE DEALING WITH THAT.
WHETHER YOU ARE OUT OF
COMPLIANCE WITH THE LEASE AND
THEY GIVE YOU A 10 DAY NOTICE,
WHETHER YOU ARE BEHIND ON RENT
AND THEY GIVE YOU 14 DAY OR 30
DAY NOTICE, WHETHER YOU JUST
HAVE A LATE FEE AND THEY GIVE
YOU A PIECE OF PAPER ON YOUR
DOOR THAT SAYS THAT YOU HAVE A
LATE FEE. THEY ARE CHARGING FOR
THE PRIVILEGE OF RECEIVING THAT
NOTICE. ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS AN
ON REGULATED AREA OF THE LAW.
AS HOUSING BECOMES MORE SCARCE
THERE IS POWER IN THE LANDLORD
AND TENANT RELATIONSHIP THAT
GIVES THE MORE POWER HERE. GO
AHEAD AND POP TO THE NEXT ONE.
HERE IS A LEDGER THAT I MADE
ANONYMOUS THERE. THIS IS
ACTUALLY A PERSON WHO IS
HOUSING ESSENTIAL NEEDS TENANT.
THEY GET $1000 A MONTH FROM
THE STATE TO PAY FOR HOUSING.
THE RENT IS $1300 A MONTH.
$1130 A MONTH. THEY MISSED A
PAYMENT THEY GOT LATE FEES OF
$75 A MONTH. A NOTICE DELIVERY
FEE, WHICH IS ANOTHER THING WE
NEED TO MAKE A LEGAL, OF $25
MONTH. SO THE LATE FEE IS $75
AND THEY THREW UP A THIRD OF
THAT AS A FEE. THEY WOULD NOT
LET THEM RENEW THEIR LEASE AND
CHARGE THEM A MONTH-TO-MONTH
FEE OF $175 A MONTH. SO I
TENDED TO THAT IS SLIGHTLY
BEHIND ON ONE RENTAL PAYMENT
ENDED UP OWING HUNDREDS OF
DOLLARS EXTRA EACH MONTH. AS
SOMEONE WHO LIVES OFF OF
SUBSTANTIAL GOVERNMENT SUBSIDY,
WHO ONLY PAY ABOUT 130 OF HER
OWN INCOME, BEING STUCK WITH
$400 OR SO OF A DEFICIT EACH
MONTH REALLY, REALLY PUT HER
BEHIND. THIS IS WHERE IT MAY
SOUND ABSTRACT. SHOULD WE LIVE
WITH LATE FEES? SHOULD WE NOT
CHARGE FOR DELIVERY OF A PAPER
THAT IS NOTIFYING YOU OF YOUR
LATE FEE? WHEN PEOPLE ARE
LIVING ON MARGINS, WHICH MORE
AND MORE SEATTLE RESIDENTS ARE,
THESE SMALL THINGS REALLY,
REALLY NICKEL AND DIME PEOPLE
OUT OF THEIR HOUSES. IF YOU
WANT TO GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
ONE MORE SLIDE IF YOU CAN.
>> IT'S NOT SO MUCH A QUESTION,
DEVON. IT'S BEEN HARD TO
UNDERSTAND. IT'S NOT THAT YOU
WERE NOT AUDIBLE. MAYBE IF YOU
SPEAK A LITTLE BIT SLOWER IT
WILL HELP. I'M NOT SURE WHAT
THE PROBLEM IS PAUL . TED, CAN
YOU IDENTIFY?
>> IT'S JUST THE SOUND QUALITY
IS A LITTLE OFF. IF YOU SPEAK
MORE SLOWLY IT MIGHT BE A LOT
MORE --
>> SURE. FORGIVE ME.
>> I DO THE SAME. I GET THAT
ALL THE TIME.
>> FEEL FREE TO PLEASE ASK ME
ANY QUESTIONS AND GO BACK. THE
CORE OF WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING
HERE IS NOT OVERLY COMPLEX. THE
IDEAS JUST A SHOWCASE HOW A
SMALL FEE CAN REALLY HURT
SOMEONE. TO LOOSELY REITERATE,
THIS IS A TENANT WHO LIVES OFF
OF THE HOUSING AND ESSENTIAL
-- PROGRAM. IT'S A STATE
PROGRAM THAT PAYS $1000 A MONTH
TOWARD RENT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE
DISABLED, OTHERWISE VERY LOW
INCOME CAN QUALIFY. HER PORTION
WAS $130 OF HER FULL RENT AND
THE STATE PAYS THE OTHER $1000.
A PORTION OF THAT WAS PAID
LATE . IT WAS THE NONPROFIT
THAT HELPED PAY , SO IT WASN'T
EVEN THE TENANT. REGARDLESS,
SHE WAS HIT WITH A $75 LATE FEE
COME A WHICH IS HALF OF WHAT
SHE PAID BECAUSE HER PORTION
WAS $130. A SECOND $25
DELIVERY FEE, WHERE THEY
DELIVERED THE NOTICE SAYING SHE
DIDN'T PAY RENT CORRECT ME.
THEY WOULD LET HER RENEW HER
LEASE AND STARTED CHARGING HER
ADDITIONAL MONTH-TO-MONTH FEES.
THE TENANT , USED TO PAY $130
OUT OF POCKET, STARTED PAYING
CLOSE TO $340 OUT OF POCKET
BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN THE
SMALL FEE START TO ADD UP. AS
WE THINK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO
SAVE LATE FEES , YOUR LATE FEES
SHOULD BE MORE THAN A CERTAIN
PERCENTAGE. IT'S REALLY THINK
ABOUT PEOPLE OR JUST BARELY
ABLE TO STAY HOUSED, AND WHO
MAY BE ABLE TO COVER THE RENT
EVEN IF IT'S A VERY LARGE
STRUGGLE. BUT THEN WHEN THEY
MISSED THE PAYMENT BY A DAY OR
BECAUSE OF A CLERICAL ERROR
ALL OF A SUDDEN A DILUTION OF
CHARGES COMES OUT OF NOWHERE.
AND THOSE CHARGES RIGHT NOW ARE
COMPLETELY UNREGULATED. IF
THIS TENANT WERE TO FACE
EVICTION AND GO TO COURT
THERE'S A CHANCE THAT SOME OF
THESE WOULD HAVE BEEN THROWN
OUT. CORE IS BOTH EXPENSIVE
AND IDEALLY IS IS THE THING
THAT WE WANT TO AVOID FOR EVERY
TENANT. YOU WANT TO BE STAYING
IN A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THE
LANDLORD, PARTICULARLY IF YOU
CAN'T AFFORD THE RENT
OTHERWISE. I THINK IT'S A SUPER
GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW THESE
LARGE FEES CAN MAKE A
DIFFERENCE ON THE MARKET. I
SEE TWO QUESTIONS PICK
>> I WAS WAITING FOR YOU TO
FINISH. COUNCILMEMBER NELSON
AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT WAR IS.
>> DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW IF THE
TENANT WAS ENROLLED IN THE
DISCOUNT PROGRAM?
>> I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR
YOU THERE.
>> OKAY. I AM JUST WONDERING.
I WILL FOLLOW UP ON THAT.
>> DEVON, YOU DO TALK VERY
FAST. I'M TRYING TO GET UP TO
SPEED HERE ON YOUR SLIDE DECK.
THIS MAY BE A DUMB QUESTION.
SO YOU HAVE EXAMPLES. LATE
FEES, UTILITY LATE FEES, NOTICE
DELIVERY FEES . I WANT TO GET
BACK TO THAT, BECAUSE THAT
DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT. YOU ARE
LISTING A UTILITY LATE FEE .
WHAT THE COSTS ARE WHEN PEOPLE
ARE LATE AND WHAT COSTS ARE
IMPOSED WHEN PEOPLE ARE LATE IN
PAYING THEIR BILL. CORRECT?
>> YES.
>> SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT ALL
OF THESE LATE FEES COULD ADD UP
ON TOP OF THE LATE FEE FOR
PAYING YOUR RENT LATE?
>> INCLUSIVE OF PAYING YOUR
RENT LATE FOR THIS TENANT, $75
. THEY PAID OUT-OF-POCKET. THEY
ARE ALSO GETTING FEES FOR
DELIVERY OF THE NOTICE THAT
YOUR RENT IS LATE. THEY ARE
GETTING UTILITY FEES. IT JUST
STARTS GETTING THINGS THROWN ON
ON TOP OF EVERYTHING. THIS IS
JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF MANY. THIS
AREA IS VERY UNREGULATED. RENT
ITSELF IS PRETTY UNREGULATED.
THE FEE STRUCTURE IS PRETTY
UNREGULATED. IF A LANDLORD
DISLIKES A TENANT OR FEELS LIKE
THEY WANT TO HAVE THEIR BOTTOM
LINE THEY CAN CHARGE WHATEVER
AMOUNT THEY WANT ONCE THE
TENANT MISSES A PAYMENT OR IS
LATE ON A PAYMENT. IN ALL OF
THESE SITUATIONS THE LANDLORD
IS PAID IN FULL. TENANTS DON'T
WANT TO MISS THE RENT BECAUSE
THEY THEN LOSE THEIR HOUSING
AND PEOPLE REALLY, REALLY WORK
TO AVOID THAT. THESE FEES I'M
SURE IS AN INCONVENIENT TO BE
PAYING RENT LATE OR UTILITIES
LATE. IN THE ABSENCE OF
REGULATION THEY CAN BE VERY
EXORBITANT. AND MORE THAN THE
COST TO THE ACTUAL LANDLORD OF
WHAT IT COST TO GET A CHECK
TODAY LATER.
>> YOU ARE SAYING ON THIS
EXAMPLE OF THIS CHART, IF
SOMEBODY IS LATE ON THE RENT ,
BESIDES GETTING THE $75 LATE
FEE, THAT ALL OF THESE OTHER
CHARGES COULD ACCRUE AS WELL.
OR DO ACCRUE.
>> WITHOUT REGULATION IT IS UP
TO THE LANDLORD TO DECIDE HOW
MUCH THEY WANT TO SOAK THE
TENANT. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT
ARE GOOD LANDLORDS AND
HOPEFULLY WOULD NOT DO THIS.
THEY WOULDN'T BE IMPACTED BY
THIS LEGISLATION. BECAUSE
THERE IS NO LAW AT ALL THEY CAN
DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. WE HAVE
A POWER IMBALANCE BETWEEN THE
LANDLORD AND TENANT, IF THE
LANDLORD JUST FEELS LIKE THEY
WANT TO CHARGE HIGHER FEES THAT
IS A DANGEROUS CALCULATION.
>> LET'S NOT GET INTO A
DISCUSSION ABOUT PRIVATE
PROPERTY AND HOW PEOPLE FEEL
ABOUT THIS COUNTRY. THERE IS A
LANDLORD AND TENANT
RELATIONSHIP. THERE IS A POWER
RELATIONSHIP. THERE IS A
CONTRACT IN MIND WHEN YOU PAY
YOUR RENT. I UNDERSTAND THAT.
YOUR POSITION, WITH THESE FEES
BEING LISTED , ALL OF THIS IS
A TOTALLY UNREGULATED AREA OF
THE LAW.
>> YES.
>> SO THERE IS NO LAW THAT
SAYS, WITH YOUR ELECTRIC WILL,
YOUR UTILITY BILL, YOUR SEWER,
YOUR TRASH , THERE IS NO CAP ON
ANY OF THESE LATE FEES.
>> WE HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO
DO SO. BUT A TENANT IN SEATTLE
WOULD NOT HAVE --
>> THE POINT OF CONFUSION MIGHT
HELP TO RECOGNIZE THAT ALL OF
THESE ARE FROM THE LANDLORD.
THE LANDLORD IS FREE TO SLAP
ANY LABEL AND THEN ESSAY A LATE
FEE FOR THIS, LATE FEE FOR
THAT, LATE FEE FOR THE OTHER.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM. A LOT OF
THIS IS NOT VISIBLE. IN
REALITY AN INCOME STRAPPED
TENANT MAY BE LIABLE FOR ALL
KINDS OF LATE FEES.
>> I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING
NOW, MADAM CHAIR. THESE ARE AT
THE DISCRETION OF THE LANDLORD
WHO SAYS, HEY, I'M NOT JUST
GOING TO IMPOSE $75.
>> IT'S ABOUT THE LANDLORD
BEING FREE TO CHARGE ALL KINDS
OF THINGS.
>> AND THIS IS AN ACTUAL BILL.
>> IT'S AN ACTUAL BILL. IT'S AN
EXAMPLE BILL.
>> GOT IT. NOW I GET IT.
>> THE REASON IT IS A
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE IS THAT
IT IS WIDESPREAD THAT THE
LANDLORD CAN CHARGE LATE FEES
ON DIFFERENT THINGS , EVEN
THOUGH IN REALITY IT'S TENANT
HASN'T PAID THE RENT BECAUSE
OF WHATEVER FINANCIAL
ADVERSITY. THAT'S WHY THE
QUESTION OF CAPPING LATE FEES
COMES INTO BEING. THEY THEN
HAVE THESE 10 DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES WHERE THEY CAN
CHARGE DIFFERENTLY FEES AND
THEN SUDDENLY YOU ARE LIABLE
FOR HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
>> THE QUESTION THAT I HAVE FOR
YOU, WHAT IS NOTICE DELIVERY ?
WHAT IS THAT? WHAT IS THAT?
>> I WOULD PROBABLY USE
PROFANITY TO DESCRIBE IT. IT'S
A COMPLETELY MADE UP FEE. THEY
SAY, YOU OWE $75 BECAUSE YOUR
RENT WAS LATE. WE ARE GOING TO
CHARGE YOU AN ADDITIONAL $25
BECAUSE WE TOLD YOU THE RENT
WAS LATE.
>> THAT'S THE LANDLORD SAYING,
BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO THIS. IT'S
THE LANDLORD YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT.
>> YES. HE IS CREATING A FEE
FOR HANDING OUT A PIECE OF
PAPER. I WISH I COULD PRINT
MONEY THAT EASILY. I CAN GIVE
YOU A NUMBER OF EXAMPLES IN
POLICY THAT ANYTIME THEY GIVE A
LEGAL NOTICE, A 10 DAY NOTICE,
A LATE NOTICE, AT 14 DAY VACATE
NOTICE, THEY ARE CHARGING FOR
DELIVERY OF THE NOTICE. AND
DELIVERING NOTICE IS NOT A
LEGAL PROCESS. IT'S JUST
PRINTING OUT A PIECE OF PAPER.
THE LANDLORD CAN SAY , YOU OWE
A LATE FEE. ALSO I'M GOING TO
CHARGE YOU $25 ON TOP OF THAT.
THAT IS UNREGULATED AND OUT OF
LEFT FIELD.
>> I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT
ONE. I CAN SEE THAT.
>> IT ALMOST SEEMS UNREAL.
WOULD A LANDLORD ACTUALLY GO TO
THIS LENGTH THAT THEY WOULD
CHARGE THE TENANT A FEE FOR
HAVING TO DELIVER THE NOTICE OF
THE LATE FEE? IT IS SO BRAZEN
AND ABSURD THAT IT SHOULD BE
ILLEGAL ON THE FACE OF IT. IT
IS STUNNING THAT IT IS NOT. I'M
NOT A LAWYER, BUT IT SEEMS TO
BE JUST A FLAUNTING OF THE LAW
CAPPING LATE FEES. THE
QUESTION THAT BEGS IS, WHAT IS
NEXT? PIT PRINTING ON BLUE
PAPER AND CHARGING A BLUE PAPER
FEE? WHERE DOES IT END?
>> IT SEEMS PUNITIVE IN NATURE,
QUITE FRANKLY. I GET WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING. THANK YOU.
>> TEN-DAY NOTICES ARE OFTEN
GIVEN BY LANDLORDS TO SAY,
PLEASE FOLLOW THIS RULE OR SO.
I HAVE BEEN SEEING FEES FOR
THAT TOO. THERE IS NO LIMIT TO
WHAT YOU CAN WRITE. TEN-DAY
NOTICE, PLEASE PICK UP YOUR
RECYCLING OR WHATEVER. THEY
ARE CHARGING A FEE TO PRINTOUT
UNNOTICED TO SAY, PLEASE
FOLLOW YOUR LEASE. I WOULD LOVE
REGULATION IN THIS AREA BECAUSE
IT'S SO FREE-FORM. I DON'T WANT
TO PULL MY HAIR OUT WHEN I GET
CALLS FROM TENANTS BECAUSE IT'S
SO STRANGE.
>> COUNCILMEMBER MORALES HAS
NOT SPOKEN YET. GO AHEAD.
>> THANK YOU. I WANT TO GO BACK
TO THIS BILL TO MAKE SURE THAT
I'M UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU
SAID, DEVON. THIS LATE FEE,
SEWAGE, GARBAGE, WATER, THOSE
ARE NOT LATE FEES IMPOSED BY
THE UTILITIES THEMSELVES AS
PART OF THEIR PROCESS. THESE
ARE ADDITIONAL FEES ADDED BY
THE LANDLORD FOR EACH UTILITY
THAT IS USED BY THE TENANT.
>> YES. THIS ONE OF THOSE
THINGS WHERE THE LANDLORD'S
BILLING INDIVIDUALLY FOR
UTILITIES, WATER, TRASH, ET
CETERA. ON TOP OF THAT,
CHARGING A LATE FEE FOR THE
UTILITY. AND ON TOP OF THAT,
CHARGING A FEE FOR DELIVERING
THE NOTICE THAT YOUR FEES ARE
LATE. ON TOP OF THAT THEY ARE
CHARGING A LATE FEE FOR RENT.
AND ON TOP OF THAT THEY REFUSE
TO LET THE TENANT SIGN A LONGER
LEASE TERM SO THEY CHARGE A FEE
FOR BEING ON A MONTH-TO-MONTH
LEASE. THERE IS A LOT OF PLAY
IN THE AREAS THAT ARE
UNREGULATED. I DON'T KNOW HOW
TO USE POLITE LANGUAGE ABOUT
IT. THIS IS SCARY.
>> THANK YOU, DEVON.
COUNCILMEMBER MORALES, DID YOU
HAVE A FOLLOW-UP?
>> I DON'T. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
>> COUNCILMEMBER NELSON, GO
AHEAD.
>> OUR CONVERSATION SO FAR IS
WE ARE WONDERING ABOUT THE LATE
FEE . I THINK THIS IS A GOOD
EXAMPLE OF WHY WE SHOULD ALSO
ASK THE LANDLORD WHERE THIS
COMES FROM . I WOULD IMAGINE IT
IS TO PAY FOR A PROPERTY
MANAGEMENT COMPANY BECAUSE A
LOT OF THE BUILDING OWNERS HAVE
PROPERTY MANAGERS THAT COST
MONEY TO CONTRACT WITH. I'M
JUST IMAGINING THAT'S WHAT
THAT IS FOR. I'M NOT EXCUSING
IT, THAT'S MY THINKING HERE. WE
SHOULD ASK THEM. LANDLORDS
CAN'T, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG
, DEVON, BUT WERE THESE LATE
FEES FOR RENT EXPRESSED IN THE
LEASE? IT SEEMS TO ME THAT
THIS FEE SCHEDULE SHOULD BE IN
THE LEASE AGREEMENT. IN OTHER
WORDS, THEY ARE NOT
NECESSARILY REGULATED BY RULES
SET BY GOVERNMENT. BUT THEY
ARE REGULATED BY THE CONTRACT
THAT IS SIGNED.
>> THERE ARE TWO THINGS. THE
STATEWIDE RESIDENTIAL LANDLORD
/TENANT ACT , THINGS THAT ARE
BLATANTLY ILLEGAL CANNOT BE
INCLUDED IN A LEASE. YOU CANNOT
CONTRACT AWAY YOUR BASIC
RIGHTS. BUT THERE IS A LOT OF
UNCOVERED AREA THERE. IT WOULD
PROBABLY BE COVERED BY THE
LEASE . THERE IS A HUGE POWER
IMBALANCE IN WHO GETS TO WRITE
LEASES, BECAUSE TENANTS ARE NOT
ABLE TO FREE-FORM THEIR LEASE
WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING FOR
HOUSING. SEPARATELY, THIS
TENANT RIGHT HERE IS ON A
MONTH-TO-MONTH LEASE , WHICH
MEANS THE TERMS CAN BE CHANGED
WITHIN 30 DAYS NOTICE. THEY
MAKE THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE
NOTICE OF RENT INCREASES THAT
ARE LONGER. SEATTLE IS 180
DAYS, OTHER CITIES ARE TWO
MONTHS. FOR A CHANGE IN BASIC
RULE LIKE A LATE FEE STRUCTURE
, THAT COULD BE DONE OVER 30
DAYS NOTICE. IF YOU ARE ALREADY
IN A HOUSE , IF YOUR LANDLORD
CHANGES THE RULES AND SAYS,
STARTING 30 DAYS FROM NOW IF I
GIVE YOU A LATE FEE AND GOING
TO CHARGE YOU A $25 BONUS. YOU
CAN MOVE OUT. THERE'S NOT MUCH
YOU CAN DO TO FIX THAT.
REALIZING THAT THERE IS A
HOUSING SCARCITY ISSUE AND
TENANTS DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM
TO JUST WALK AWAY WHEN THE
CONTRACT TERMS ARE BAD IS WHY
WE REGULATE THIS AREA. IT IS A
HEAVILY REGULATED AREA BECAUSE
IT'S HOUSING. THERE IS A HUGE
POWER IMBALANCE . IF YOU DON'T
LIKE THE TERMS, THERE REALLY
ISN'T A LOT OF FREEDOMS TO JUST
WALK AWAY. PARTICULARLY ON A
SHORT-TERM BASIS.
>> DID YOU HAVE A FOLLOW-UP,
COUNCILMEMBER NELSON?
>> NOT RIGHT NOW.
>> THANK YOU. I WANT TO INVITE
KATE RUBIN INTO THE DISCUSSION.
KATE, DID YOU WANT TO ADD
ANYTHING ON THIS TOPIC OR
ANYTHING THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED
SO FAR?
>> I HAD A LITTLE BIT TO ADD
BUT I WASN'T SURE IF THIS WAS
THE END OF DEVON'S PORTION.
>> PLEASE STOP ME. I DON'T MEAN
TO DOMINATE THE ZOOM ROOM.
>> THERE IS AN ARTICLE IN THE
SEATTLE TIMES LAST YEAR THAT
SHOWED ABOUT 47% OF SEATTLE
RENTERS ARE COST BURDENS.
MEANING THAT WE SPEND 30% OR
MORE OF OUR INCOME ON OUR
HOUSING. WHICH MEANS THAT A
LOT OF RENTERS HERE IN SEATTLE
ARE LIVING PAYCHECK TO
PAYCHECK. SO IF THERE IS AN
EMERGENCY , IF RENT IS IN
GETTING PAID BECAUSE IT'S
USUALLY PRIORITIZED , SOMETHING
BAD HAPPENED. FOR EXAMPLE, A
RESTAURANT WAS RECENTLY SHUT
DOWN AND NONE OF THE WORKERS
WERE PAID. RESTAURANT WORKERS
ARE OFTEN LIVING PAYCHECK TO
PAYCHECK. SO THE IDEA THAT THEY
CAN BE LATE AND THEN THEY WOULD
BE CHARGED A LATE FEE . THE
DELIVERY OF NOTICE FEE, WHICH
IS ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS
FEES I HAVE EVER HEARD, AND
SOME PLACES EVEN CHARGE
COMPOUNDING LATE FEES. IF YOU
ARE LATE BY ONE DAY YOU PAY A
CERTAIN AMOUNT. IF YOU ARE LATE
BY ANOTHER DAY IT ADDS UP.
THESE FEES ADD UP SO QUICKLY.
SO NOT ONLY ARE YOU DEALING
WITH YOUR EMERGENCY, YOU ARE
BEING NICKEL AND DIME TO DEATH
OVER WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY AN
UNAVOIDABLE ACCIDENT. IT IS SO
HARD TO GET CAUGHT UP FROM
THERE. I THINK PROBABLY MOST
OF US ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE
IDIOM. YOU CAN'T SQUEEZE BLOOD
FROM A TURNIP. THAT'S EXACTLY
WHAT THESE FEES ARE DOING. THEY
ARE TRYING TO GET MORE MONEY
FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING.
LANDLORDS ARE PROFITING FROM
PEOPLE BEING LATE.
>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR MAKING
THAT POINT. I KNOW THAT YOU
GUYS HAVE MORE OF THE
PRESENTATION AND YOU SHOULD GO
AHEAD. I JUST WANTED TO
INTERJECT BY SAYING, I REALLY
APPRECIATED THE POINTS YOU
MADE. IF WE DON'T KEEP THIS
FACT IN MIND IT COULD BE
EXTREMELY MISLEADING AS TO WHY
LANDLORDS ARE ACTUALLY EVEN
CHARGING LATE FEES. THIS GOES
TO THE QUESTION THAT
COUNCILMEMBER NELSON WAS
ASKING. WHAT DO THEY DO WITH
THE LATE FEES? I THINK THAT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT POINT TO
RECOGNIZE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE
DATA , OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE
OUTLIER CASES, BUT WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS
STATISTICALLY THE MOST
PREDOMINANT. WHAT WE SEE IS,
STATISTICALLY SPEAKING, RENT
TENANTS WANT TO PAY THEIR RENT
ON TIME BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT
TO GET INTO TROUBLE. THEY
DON'T WANT AN EVICTION ON THEIR
RENTING RECORD. THEY DON'T WANT
TO THEIR CREDIT SCORE TO BE
AFFECTED NEGATIVELY. THEY'RE
GOING TO DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR
POWER TO PAY THEIR FULL RENT ON
TIME. WHEN THEY DON'T , AS YOU
WERE SAYING, SOMETHING BAD HAS
HAPPENED AND THAT'S WHY THEY
ARE NOT ABLE TO. IF YOU LOOK
AT THE MATH OF HOW MUCH MONEY
LANDLORDS, ESPECIALLY CORPORATE
LANDLORDS , AND UP SPENDING .
AND REALLY TRYING TO SQUEEZE
BLOOD OUT OF A TURNIP. IN
INDIA THEY SAY, BLOOD OUT OF A
STONE. THEY ACTUALLY ADD
DOLLARS. IT IS MORE WITH THE
TENANT MAY HAVE OWED THEM BUT
IT COMES DOWN TO ALSO WHAT
DEVON WAS REFERRING TO. THERE'S
A DEEP IMBALANCE OF POWER
BETWEEN TENANTS AND LANDLORDS.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IN THAT
SITUATION. THIS IS WHY A FULL
BILL OF RIGHTS FOR RENTERS,
INCLUDING RENT CONTROL,
OBVIOUSLY THAT IS THE BIG ONE.
THAT IS NEEDED . ELIMINATING
LATE FEES IS IN THE VEIN OF THE
RENTERS RIGHTS THAT WE HAVE
BEEN FIGHTING FOR AND WINNING.
ABLE TO GET A MAJORITY VOTE ON
THE COUNCIL ON ALL OF THOSE
ASPECTS. ONE QUESTION I HAD
BEFORE YOU GO ON, WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT LATE FEES FOR
RENT . MAYBE YOU HAVE THIS IN
YOUR PRESENTATION. IF SO YOU
CAN GET TO THAT POINT. IS IT
ALSO TRUE THAT VERY OFTEN,
MAYBE YOU HAVE STATISTICS OR
INFORMATION ON THIS, TENANTS ,
WHEN THEY ARE IN FINANCIAL
DIFFICULTY, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY
DO NOT PAY ANY OF THE RENT.
THERE ARE MANY CASES WHERE THEY
PAY AS MUCH AS THEY CAN BUT
THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO PAY THEIR
FULL RENT. AND EVEN THEN THEY
GET INTO TROUBLE. THE REASON
I'M REFERRING TO THIS, AND I'M
SURE KATE AND DEVON KNOW ABOUT
THIS, BUT THIS CASE THAT
HAPPENED IN JANUARY OF 2019. A
RENTER , SHE OWED THE LANDLORD
TO DOLLARS IN THE RENT AND
SHE FACED EVICTION . THE
HOUSING JUSTICE PROJECT , WHICH
IS PART OF THE KING COUNTY
BORROWERS ASSOIATION, THEY
FOUGHT HER CASE AND FOUGHT
SUCCESSFULLY AGAINST HER
EVICTION. THAT IS AN EXAMPLE
OF WHERE SHE OWED TWO DOLLARS.
AND YET IT WAS A PROBLEM. SO
IT IS CONNECTED TO THE QUESTION
OF LATE FEES AS WELL.
>> YES. SMALL BALANCES CAN
LEAD TO EVICTIONS. RIGHT? A
LANDLORD DOESN'T CHARGE A LATE
FEE UNTIL SIX. BUT THEY CAN
HAVE A 14 DAY NOTICE ON THE
SECOND IF THEY DON'T PAY. THEY
COULD FILE A CASE AGAINST YOU.
I THINK IT IS JUST HARASSING A
TENANT OVER A SMALL BALANCE ,
BECAUSE IT COSTS TO GO TO
COURT. ONCE THEY FILE AGAINST
THE TENANT THEY HAVE AN
EVICTION ON THE RECORD. THAT
EVICTION IS A COURT RECORD. WE
HAVE VERY OPEN ACCESS TO PUBLIC
RECORDS IN THIS STATE. EVEN IF
YOUR LANDLORD FILES AN EVICTION
AGAINST YOU FOR NOTHING AND
IT'S THROWN OUT BECAUSE IT'S A
BAD CASE THERE IS STILL THAT
EVICTION RECORD. THERE ARE SOME
CREATIVE WORKAROUNDS WE CAN DO
TO TRY TO RESTORE A TENANTS
SCREENING RECORD. BUT THE
EVICTION IS THERE FOREVER, EVEN
IF YOU WIN. TRYING TO AVOID
UNNECESSARY EVICTIONS,
PARTICULARLY OVER SMALL STUFF,
IS REALLY VALUABLE.
>> PRESIDENT JUAREZ, DID YOU
HAVE A QUESTION BEFORE WE MOVE
ON? YOU ARE MUTED .
>> I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT IN A
WHILE. THANK YOU. YOU ARE ON
MUTE. MADAM CHAIR, WHAT ELSE I
WANT TO ASK, I HAVE A FEW
FOLLOW-UP LEGAL QUESTIONS. I
WANTED YOU TO HAVE THEM GET
THROUGH THEIR SLIDE DECK. I
DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MORE IS
THERE OR IF YOU WANT ME TO
WAIT. I THINK WHEN WE GET INTO
THE DISCUSSION AND DEBATE, NOT
DEBATE, BUT THE DISCUSSION
ABOUT THESE KIND OF CONTRACTS
AND WHAT THEY MEAN IN THE REALM
OF HOUSING , WHICH IS SEPARATE
AND DIFFERENT CONTRACTS. THERE
IS A PUBLIC POLICY PIECE THERE
THAT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED. I
WANT TO KNOW FROM YOU, MADAM
CHAIR, WHAT WOULD BE THE RIGHT
TIME TO BRING UP THOSE KIND OF
ISSUES?
>> I BELIEVE THERE IS ONE MORE
SLIDE IF YOU WANT TO FINISH THE
SLIDE DECK FIRST.
>> I WILL HOLD MY QUESTIONS
UNTIL THEN.
>> IF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE
NEXT ONE, IT'S PRETTY BRIEF.
THIS IS SHOWING HOW FEES ON A
PERCENTAGE OF RENTS SOUNDS
LIKE A VERY LOCATION. BUT
BECAUSE WE HAVE REALLY HIGH
RENTS A PERCENTAGE BASED SYSTEM
COULD ALSO BE REALLY HIGH. THIS
IS A TENANT WHO IS LATE ON RENT
AND WAS BEING CHARGED $205 A
MONTH FOR BEING LATE. EVEN IF
THIS MONEY IS MEANT TO PAY FOR
THE COST OF A MANAGEMENT
COMPANY OR THE COST OF AN
OVERDRAFT FEE, WHATEVER COST
LANDLORD LIGHT MIGHT SAY.
IMAGINE THAT BEING $205 FOR
BEING A DAY LATE ON YOUR RENT.
THEY HAVE SET TO LATE FEES TO A
PERCENTAGE. THAT IS INHERENTLY
GOING TO BE A SLIDING SCALE. AS
RENT GOES UP LATE FEES GOES UP.
A FLAT CAP DOES NOT HAVE THAT
PREDICAMENT. THE LAST SLIDE IS
JUST A LIST OF COSIGNERS.
IT'S NOT JUST KATE AND I. THE
STATE HOUSE HEALTHY COALITION
IS A VERY LARGE ORGANIZATION OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO DEAL
WITH THE CRISIS OF OUR TIME.
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH HOUSING, NOT
ENOUGH AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
PEOPLE WHO WERE HOUSED LAST
MONTH ARE ON HOUSTON THIS MONTH
BECAUSE WE ARE BEING PUSHED OUT
FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS. THE
MOST COMMON ONE IS THE COSTS
BECOME TOO HIGH TO PAY. WE SENT
A LETTER TO THE MAYOR
INCLUDING PASSAGES OF
PROTECTIONS. WE WILL BE HAPPY
TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. THERE IS
A LOT OF INTEREST TO PROTECT
SEATTLE TENANTS. I THINK WE ARE
ALL AFRAID OF LOSING OUR
NEIGHBORS. I GREW UP IN
SEATTLE. MOST OF MY BEST
FRIENDS FROM HIGH SCHOOL AND
COLLEGE CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE
HERE ANYMORE. IT'S
HEARTBREAKING. WE NEED TO
ENSURE THAT OUR COMMUNITIES CAN
STAY IN COMMUNITIES THEY WANT
TO STAY IN.
>> THANKS, DEVIN AND KATE , FOR
THE PRESENTATION. WE WILL CALL
ON PRESIDENT JUAREZ TO ANSWER
QUESTION. I JUST WANTED TO SAY,
IN THAT SLIDE, IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT TO SEE HOW MANY
ORGANIZATIONS , COMMUNITY
ORGANIZATIONS, RENTERS
ORGANIZATIONS , COMMUNITY
ORGANIZATIONS ARE PART OF THE
COALITION. YOU SHOULD HAVE
ALTERNATIVE. THEY ARE PART OF
THE COALITION. FOR SOME STRANGE
REASON THAT IS MISSING. I WOULD
APPRECIATE THAT YOU ADD THAT.
PRESIDENT JUAREZ, GO AHEAD WITH
YOUR QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE
PRESENTATION, KATE AND DEVON. I
JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO THE
QUESTION OR COMMENTS RAISED BY
COUNCILMEMBER NELSON AS WELL.
I'M GOING TO GET A LITTLE WONKY
HERE SO I MAKE SURE I
UNDERSTAND IT WHEN WE GO BACK
TO THE UNREGULATED LAW
STATEMENT THAT YOU MADE. I
AGREE WITH YOU, THERE IS A REAL
QUESTION ABOUT THE NOTICE FEE
BEING LEGAL. THAT SOUNDS TO ME
JUST STRAIGHT UP WRONG. I THINK
WE HAVE TO START THE PREMISE.
YOU PROBABLY KNOW THIS AS WELL,
MADAM CHAIR. IF YOU HAVE A
CONTRACT YOU CAN'T CONTRACT
ILLEGALITY. YOU CAN'T. I AM
HEARING CONTRACT LAW AND
HOUSING. YOU SAW THIS A LOT .
I'M SURE KATE AND DEVON ARE
FAMILIAR WITH ADHESION
CONTRACTS, WHERE THEY ARE JUST
UNCONSCIONABLE. THEY ARE
CONTRACTS THAT CONTRAVENE
PUBLIC POLICY. WE SAW THAT A
LOT IN THE 80s AND 90s. THE
RENT TO BUY FURNITURE. WHERE
YOU WOULD END UP PAYING $400
FOR A $50 COUCH BECAUSE YOU
HAD TO KEEP PAYING AND GETTING
LATE FEES IF YOU ARE NOT PAYING
IT. THOSE ARE OUTLAWED NO
MATTER WHAT. WE ARE IN THE AREA
OF HOUSING, WHICH IS PUBLIC
POLICY, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN
OTHER CONTRACTS OF GOODS AND
SERVICES. THAT IS WHERE YOU
HAVE A MORE HEIGHTENED
CONVERSATION WHERE PUBLIC
POLICY COMES IN. YOU HAVE ROOM,
I BELIEVE , FOR THE RENTER TO
HAVE A LITTLE MORE POWER IN THE
UNBALANCED RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
LANDLORD AND THE TENANT. WHAT
I'M LOOKING AT HERE , OBVIOUSLY
LANDLORD HAS SOME SUPERIOR
BARGAINING POWER BECAUSE IT IS
THEIR PROPERTY. PUBLIC POLICY
AND LAW, THE FACT THAT IT'S
HOUSING, THE TENANT HAS RIGHTS
AS WELL. AS LONG AS
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT HAS BEEN
ON COUNSEL DECLARING OUR
HOMELESSNESS AND HOUSING
ISSUES. WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET
HERE , ARE YOU GOING TO BE
PRESENTING AGAIN ABOUT WHAT A
GOOD EXAMPLE IS? AGAIN, GO
BACK TO THE NOTICE FEE OF
LETTING US KNOW. IT'S CLEAR
WHEN WE CAN PUT INTO A CATEGORY
THAT THESE ARE UNCONSCIONABLE
AGAINST PUBLIC POLICY AND
SHOULDN'T BE IMPOSED. AND THEN
MAYBE WE CAN FIND OUT WHAT OUR
PROPERTY COMPANY SAYS ABOUT
THAT. I REALLY WANT TO HEAR
THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT. I'M
NOT TRYING TO DEFEND A TENANT
, LANDLORD, OR COMPANY. I JUST
WANT THE FULL PICTURE. WE MAY
HAVE SOME PEOPLE TO COME IN AND
SAY, LOOK, I MANAGE PROPERTY
AND AM ALSO A LANDLORD I HAVE
NEVER IMPOSED THOSE FEES AND I
DON'T KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO DO
THAT. I KNOW WHEN PEOPLE ARE
BEING PERSUASIVE THEY PUT THE
BEST FAX FORWARD. BUT I WANT TO
SEE ALL OF IT. ARE WE GOING TO
SEE MORE OF THAT FROM YOU
FOLKS?
>> MY POINT WOULD BE, IF
SOMEONE IS NOT DOING THIS THEY
WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY THE
LEGISLATION. WE HAVE EXPEDIENT
LAWS THAT AFFECT PEOPLE THAT
WALK. -- THESE POLICIES DON'T
NEED TO WORRY ABOUT US PASSING
LAWS BANNING THEM. IT IS
IRRELEVANT AT THAT POINT. I
HELP PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE
FACING A PROBLEM WITH THEIR
LANDLORD. I AM ONLY GOING TO
DEAL WITH TENANTS IN TROUBLE
AND LANDLORDS WERE BEING
PROBLEMATIC. THERE'S A LOT OF
THEM. I THINK IF WE BANNED BAD
PRACTICES THERE ARE PLENTY WAYS
FOR LANDLORDS WITH GOOD
PRACTICES TO BE GOOD LANDLORDS.
>> HOW DID THEY GET TO THE
POINT OF CAPPING AT $10 A
MONTH? HOW DID THEY COME TO
THAT NUMBER? DO YOU KNOW?
>> I COULDN'T TELL YOU HOW THEY
CAME TO THE NUMBER. THEY JUST
SAID IT WAS A FAIR NUMBER.
>> YOU PROBABLY THEN DON'T KNOW
HOW KENMORE AND REDMOND DECIDED
TO CAP AT 1.5% MONTHLY.
>> ALL OF THEM ARE PART-TIME
COUNSEL. THEY MEET AT 6:30 ON A
MONDAY. I HAVE LISTENED TO A
LOT OF THEM. THEY DELIBERATE ON
WHAT'S FAIR AND THEY SETTLED ON
A NUMBER.
>> OKAY. WHAT I'M ASKING THEN
IS TWO PARTS. NUMBER ONE, WHAT
WE WOULD WANT TO REGULATE OR
JUST OUTRIGHT OUTLAW. THE
SECOND SECTION WOULD BE WHAT
WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO CAP.
OBVIOUSLY SEATTLE RENT IS
DIFFERENT THAN KENMORE RENT.
I'M INCLINED TO SUGGEST A
DIFFERENT NUMBER. I FEEL LIKE
I NEED MORE INFORMATION.
>> THAT'S UP TO THE COUNCIL. IS
HERE TO TELL YOU WHAT WE SEE.
>> YOU DON'T GET TO BACK AWAY
NOW. YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE ALL
OF THE ANSWERS AND SAY, I'M
JUST A GUY HERE.
>> I'M QUITE HAPPY TO BE HERE.
I DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF
AUTHORITY. YOU GUYS DECIDE WHAT
YOU THINK IS A FAIR AMOUNT. IF
YOU ARE GOING TO CHARGE SOMEONE
FOR BEING LATE ON RENT A SMALL
AMOUNT IS FAIR. IF YOU'RE TYING
AS IT PERCENT BUT IT HAS TO BE
A SMALL PERCENT. RENTS ARE
HUGE. AT THE END OF THE DAY IF
THE TENANTS ARE PAYING 40% TO
60% OF THEIR INCOMES TO
LANDLORDS WE NEED TO BE VERY
CAREFUL THAT IF THEY ARE DAILY
THEY AREN'T CHARGED 65% OR
75%. THESE ARE TENANTS THAT ARE
REALLY, REALLY STRUGGLING TO
STAY HOUSED.
>> I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU
ON THAT WHOLE ISSUE. WHAT I'M
TRYING TO GET, BECAUSE YOU ARE
HERE TO ADVISE US WHAT YOU
THINK IS A GOOD NUMBER TO CAP
AT. SO I'M ASKING YOU, WHERE'D
YOU GET THAT NUMBER? HAD YOU
COME ABOUT THAT? THAT'S WHAT
I'M GETTING AT.
>> AS HE WAS SAYING EARLIER,
THE REASON THAT A CITY LIKE
AUBURN ARRIVED AT $10 AN HOUR ,
SORRY NOT $10 AN HOUR, $10. IT
IS FAIR. YOU SAW THAT AGAIN,
ULTIMATELY I DO HAVE A SLIGHT
DISAGREEMENT. IT'S NOT THAT THE
CITY COUNCIL HAS LEGISLATIVE
AUTHORITY. THE CITY COUNCIL CAN
END UP PASSING WHAT RENTERS
DEMAND. THERE IS A REAL ROLL
FOR RENTERS TO COME TO CITY
HALL AND SAY, THIS IS ACTUALLY
INSULT UPON INJURY WITH THE
RENT BEING SO HIGH. IT'S WORSE
IN SEATTLE THAN AUBURN. ON TOP
OF THAT, IF YOU TALK ABOUT ONE
OF THE SLIDES THAT YOU ALL HAD
WHERE THE RENT ITSELF IS
$2000-$50 AND THEN YOU ADD A
LATE FEE OF $205, THAT IS
BEYOND THE CAPACITY OF SOMEONE
WHO IS IN THAT SITUATION IN THE
FIRST PLACE BECAUSE THEY ARE
HAVING EXTREME FINANCIAL
HARDSHIPS. IN OTHER WORDS,
THAT TENANT I GOING TO SINK
FURTHER AND FURTHER INTO
FINANCIAL TROUBLE . IT'S NOT
GOING TO ALLOW THEM TO ACTUALLY
COME OUT OF THAT. IT'S A GOOD
QUESTION TO ASK. SO WHAT ARE
LANDLORDS GAINING? I'M GLAD
YOU ARE ASKING ALL OF THESE
QUESTIONS, COUNCILMEMBER
JUAREZ AND COUNCILMEMBER
NELSON. IT DOES GIVE US A
SENSE OF WHAT MORE MATERIAL WE
CAN BRING FOR THE NEXT
DISCUSSION . WE WILL BE LOOKING
AT THE LEGISLATION UNTIL THE
MIDDLE OF NEXT MONTH AT THE
EARLIEST . WE ALREADY HAVE
STATISTICS THAT SHOW THAT
LANDLORDS, AND I WAS SAYING
THIS EARLIER, IF YOU LOOK AT
IT IN DOLLAR TERMS MANY OF
THEM ARE BIG LANDLORDS. END UP
SPENDING MORE IN DOLLAR TERMS
AND TRYING TO EVICT THEIR
TENANTS AND IT IS ALMOST
ENTIRELY LOW INCOME TENANTS
THAT ARE IN A VERY BAD
FINANCIAL SITUATION. I DON'T
THINK THAT THE ANSWER TO THIS
QUESTION, WHAT THEY GAIN AND
HOW MUCH THEY SPEND, IS GOING
TO COME ON THE BASIS OF LOOKING
AT THE DOLLAR TERMS. IF YOU
LOOK AT IT JUST IN DOLLAR TERMS
IT'S ACTUALLY BETTER FOR THE
LANDLORD TO LET THE TENANT
CONTINUE TO LIVE IN THAT UNIT
AND NOT GO AFTER THEM. HOWEVER,
THE REASON THEY ARE DOING THAT
IS BECAUSE EACH TIME THEY DO
THAT, EACH TIME THAT CYCLE
HAPPENS IT ALLOWS THEM TO
INCREASE THE RENT. THERE IS
ALWAYS SOME OTHER POTENTIAL IN
A PROSPECTIVE TENANT WHO CAN
PAY MORE RENT. THAT'S WHAT'S
HAPPENING. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO
CAN PAY A LOT OF RENT. IT IS
SQUEEZING THEM ALSO AT THIS
POINT. BUT THE PEOPLE THEY GET
SQUEEZED THE MOST ARE
WORKING-CLASS . TO BE HONEST, I
WILL ALSO TELL YOU THAT I HAVE
HAD MANY WELL-PAID TECH
WORKERS SAYING, I'M PAYING SO
MUCH IN RENT I'M BARELY ABLE TO
GET BY. THAT IS HOW MUCH RENT
HAS GONE UP. LATE FEES ARE NOT
THE BE-ALL AND END-ALL EFFECT.
WE DO NEED RENT CONTROL. BUT IT
IS SOMETHING THAT IS PUNITIVE.
TO USE YOUR OWN WORD,
PRESIDENT JUAREZ, IT'S PUNITIVE
ON PEOPLE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T
SERVE ANY PURPOSE IN TERMS OF
ACTUALLY HELPING THEM STAY IN
THEIR RENTAL HOMES. THESE ARE
GOOD QUESTIONS THAT WE CAN COME
BACK TO IN THE NEXT DISCUSSION.
>> MADAM CHAIR, I HAVE A
FOLLOW-UP TO WHAT YOU JUST
SAID.
>> YES.
>> I'M HOPING THAT WE HAVE
MORE INFORMATION AND I CAN TALK
TO YOU OFF-LINE ABOUT WHAT
WOULD BE MORE HELPFUL, A LITTLE
BIT MORE INFORMATION. WHAT I'M
ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT ARE THE
FOLKS THAT THIS HAPPENS TO,
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CREDIT LINE
AND CREDIT SCORE, PARTICULARLY
IF THEY ARE UN-BANKED? THAT HAS
ALWAYS BEEN A CONCERN OF MINE.
WHEN YOU HAVE A CREDIT SCORE
YOU CAN LOOK AT DIFFERENT
THINGS. YOU SHOULD ALSO LOOK AT
PEOPLE WITH OTHER CREDIT
LINES, DID THEY PAY THEIR RENT
ON TIME? DO THEY PAY THE PHONE
ON TIME? DID THEY PAY THE CABLE
BILL ON TIME? ALL OF THAT
SHOULD GO INTO YOUR CREDIT
SCORE TO SHOW THAT YOU PAY YOUR
BILLS ON TIME. NOT JUST A CAR
AND MORTGAGE. NOT EVERYBODY HAS
THAT. I THINK THESE
UNCONSCIONABLE BYPRODUCTS THAT
COME LIKE THIS WHEN PEOPLE
CAN'T PAY IT, AND THEN WE SAW
THIS WITH SOUND TRANSIT WITH
FEES AND NOT PAYING YOUR FAIR.
THEY WANT TO SEND IT TO COURT.
OF COURSE IT AFFECTS THEIR
CREDIT SCORE WHENEVER THEY TRY
TO BUY A HOME, RENT A HOME, OR
RENT AGAIN. I'M SEEING THE
RIPPLE EFFECT OF THIS. IT ISN'T
JUST THE FEE ITSELF. IT FOLLOWS
YOU AROUND AND YOU CAN'T GET
RID OF IT. THERE WAS A DAY WHEN
I WAS YOUNG AND COULDN'T AFFORD
RENT. THAT FOLLOWED ME ALL THE
WAY PAST LAW SCHOOL. MY GOD,
THAT HAPPENED IN 1983. THAT IS
STILL THERE? THAT IS THE KIND
OF STUFF I THINK ABOUT AS WELL.
I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT OUT
THERE. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, PRESIDENT
JUAREZ. THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT
POINT. IT FOLLOWS YOU
EVERYWHERE. EVEN A SMALL
HARDSHIP LEADS YOU TO MISSING
A PAYMENT AND THEN IT FOLLOWS
YOU, AS YOU SAID, FOR YEARS AND
SOMETIMES DECADES. IT DOES
AFFECT YOUR CREDIT SCORE. ALL
OF THESE RIPPLE EFFECT ARE
THERE AND WE SHOULD DEFINITELY
MAKE THAT AS PART OF THE
DISCUSSION. I APPRECIATE YOU
MENTIONING THAT. COUNCILMEMBER
NELSON, DID YOU HAVE A
QUESTION?
>> YEAH. I WANTED TO AGREE
WITH COUNCIL PRESIDENT WAR IS
ABOUT NEEDING TO GET THE OTHER
SIDE. WHEN I, WITH ALL DUE
RESPECT, HERE YOU SAY IT IS
FAIR , THAT IS SUBJECTIVE. WE
DO NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY
THESE FEES ARE BEING CHARGED,
WHAT ARE THE BURDENS THAT THE
LANDLORDS ARE UNDER THAT WE MAY
NOT KNOW ABOUT? I THINK HE HAD
SAID LANDLORDS ARE PROFITING
FROM PEOPLE BEING LATE. IT
COULD BE THAT THEY ARE ALSO
INCURRING FEES FROM THE UTILITY
FOR BEING LATE . IF THEY ARE
JUST A SMALL LANDLORD AND HAVE
ONE RENTER THAT IT'S A
DIFFERENT STORY THAN IF THEY
ARE A MULTIFAMILY HOUSING
PROVIDER , IN WHICH CASE WE
ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
OUR NONPROFIT HOUSING
PROVIDERS, WHAT ARE THEY
THINKING ABOUT TOO? THERE ARE
NONPROFIT AND FOR HOUSING --
THAT WE SHOULD BE TAKING INTO
ACCOUNT BEFORE WE GO FORWARD.
WHERE I'M COMING FROM IS
SIMPLY THAT I AM CONCERNED
ABOUT SMALL LANDLORDS SELLING
PROPERTIES BECAUSE IT IS
BECOMING MORE AND MORE
DIFFICULT IN SEATTLE TO DO
BUSINESS BECAUSE OF
REGULATIONS THAT MAYBE DIDN'T
HAVE MUCH INPUT BEFORE THEY
WERE IMPLEMENTED. I JUST WANT
TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HEAR ALL
SIDES. I DON'T WANT MORE OF
THESE . I KNOW THAT THIS IS A
TERM OF ART. NATURALLY
AFFORDABLE UNITS , OLDER HOMES
GOING OFF THE MARKET BECAUSE
IT BECOMES UNTENABLE FOR THEM
TO KEEP GOING. WE DO HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY ARE
COMING FROM. NOW THIS IS MY
QUESTION. AREN'T LANDLORDS
REQUIRED TO OFFER REPAYMENT
PLANS BEFORE EVEN GETTING TO
EVICTION? ARE THESE LATE FEES
NEGOTIATED OR ARE THESE
REPAYMENT PLANS TAKING INTO
ACCOUNT MAY BE WRITING OFF ANY
OF THESE LATE FEES? HAVE YOU
SEEN ANY REPAYMENT PLANS THAT
HAVE WRITTEN OFF SOME OF THESE
FEES IN THE TERMS THAT ARE
OFFERED ?
>> BY THE TIME YOU'RE IN COURT
THE WEIGHT FEES WERE WAITING.
>> I MEAN BEFORE IT GETS TO
EVICTION.
>> THEY DON'T WAIVE THE FEES
BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO INCENTIVE
TO. ONCE YOU ARE IN COURT THEY
ARE WAIVED. THAT'S A VERY
EXPENSIVE PROCESS. AND THEN
ALSO JUST TO PUT A PIN IN THE
REPAYMENT PLAN PROCESS. A LOT
OF PEOPLE OWE BACK RENT FROM
COVID OR A LIFE EMERGENCY. IT'S
REALLY GOOD THAT WE BUILT A
REPAYMENT PLAN SYSTEM .
LANDLORDS GET ALL OF THEIR
MONEY BACK OVER TIME. WE TOLD
WORKERS THEY COULDN'T GO TO
WORK BECAUSE WE ARE HAVING A
GLOBAL COVID-19 EMERGENCY. WE
TOLD THEM, YOU WILL GET PAID
BACK WITHIN A YEAR. I GUESS
IT'S A WHOLE SEPARATE
CONVERSATION ON REPAYMENT
PLANS. THE LANDLORDS ARE
GETTING THEIR MONEY AND IF THEY
AREN'T THEY ARE OUT. MOST OF
THIS HAPPENS PRE-COURT. YOUR
LANDLORD DEFINES A LATE FEE AND
YOU PAY IT BECAUSE YOU ARE
AFRAID OF THE COURT FILING.
BEFORE HE HAD A SUMMONS AND
COMPLAINT, BEFORE YOU WERE
THERE IN FRONT OF A JUDGE OR
COMMISSIONER. MOST TENANTS ,
THANKFULLY, ARE NOT IN THE
EVICTION COURT. BUT THEY STILL
HAVE ISSUES WITH THEIR
LANDLORD.
>> THANK YOU.
>> I WANTED TO COME IN BRIEFLY
TO TALK ABOUT THE BALANCE OF
POWER BETWEEN THE RENTER AND
LANDLORD. MY PREVIOUS LANDLORD,
NOT MY CURRENT ONE, BUT THE
PREVIOUS ONE CHARGE LATE FEES
FOR RENT, THE FIRST DAY THAT
IT WAS LATE , IT WAS $50 AND AN
ADDITIONAL $25 A DAY UNTIL YOU
ARE CAUGHT UP. AFTER SEVERAL
DAYS I GOT A NOTICE FROM MY
LANDLORD THAT I WAS SEVERAL
DAYS LATE. I WAS SURPRISED
BECAUSE I HAD SET IT UP SO MY
BANK WOULD MAIL THEM A CHECK
AUTOMATICALLY. IT TURNS OUT I
WAS NOT LATE AND THEY JUST
THOUGHT I WAS LATE. THEY HAD
ACTUALLY CASHED THE CHECK AND
IT WAS ENTIRELY THEIR FAULT AND
IT WORKED OUT FOR ME. IF I
DIDN'T HAVE THOSE BANK
STATEMENTS TO PROVE THAT, OR IF
I HAD BEEN LATE BECAUSE I HAD
LOST MY JOB . KATE GAVE THE
EXAMPLE . IT CAN JUST RUN AWAY
WITH YOU. IT CAN SPIRAL OUT OF
CONTROL. IT SAID IN MY LEASE
THAT THEY COULD DO THAT. ON
WHAT UNIVERSE? IT'S MY LANDLORD
WHEN SIGNING THE LEASE, HEY, I
ACTUALLY THINK WE SHOULD CHANGE
THIS LEASE SO YOU DON'T CHARGE
LATE FEES AS MUCH BECAUSE MAYBE
I MIGHT BE LATE AND THEN IT
WOULD RUN AWAY WITH ME. I CAN'T
IMAGINE ANY TENANT EVER
NEGOTIATING SOMETHING LIKE
THAT. THE POWER IMBALANCE IS
JUST SO GREAT. THAT'S THE WHOLE
REASON WHY WE HAVE DISCUSSIONS
LIKE THIS. IT'S NOT BECAUSE
LANDLORDS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH
POWER. THEY ARE SOME OF THE
WEALTHIEST PEOPLE IN SEATTLE.
THEY'VE GOT THE MOST POWER AND
WE NEED TO CORRECT THE
IMBALANCE.
>> RIGHT. EXACTLY. I WANTED TO
ALSO CALL ON KATE. I SAW YOUR
HAND UP. KATE, GO AHEAD.
>> I WANTED TO COMMENT MORE ON
THE POWER IMBALANCE. SOME
LANDLORDS CHARGE TO DELIVER
THE NOTICE OF THESE LATE FEES
AND THEN CONTINUE CHARGING.
THERE IS NO REVERSE VERSION OF
THAT WHERE IF A LANDLORD
DELIVERS A NOTICE , OR CHARGES
YOU FOR DELIVERING A NOTICE
THAT IS INVALID THAT YOU CAN
INVOICE THEM FOR YOUR TIME AND
YOUR FEAR . AND WHATEVER YOU
ELSE NEEDED TO RESOLVE THAT.
THEY CHARGE THESE ARBITRARY
AMOUNTS. IT DOES NOT GO THE
OTHER WAY. LUCKILY TED HAD THE
PROOF THAT IT WAS PAID. IT
STILL, IT WAS A MATTER OF
RESEARCH AND COMMUNICATE WITH
THE LANDLORD. I WOULD IMAGINE
YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY THE
LANDLORD FOR THE DELIVERY AND
THEN FIGHT THEM ON GETTING THAT
MONEY BACK.
>> THANKS SO MUCH, KATE. I
APPRECIATE THAT. I WANTED TO
REITERATE A POINT THAT WAS MADE
EARLIER. IF LANDLORDS ARE NOT
ENGAGING THIS KIND OF PUNITIVE
CHARGING OF THEIR TENANTS
THEN THEY WOULDN'T BE AFFECTED
BY THIS LEGISLATION ANY MORE
THAN THE OTHER LEGISLATION
THAT WE HAVE SUCCEEDED WITHIN
THE LAST 10 YEARS. YES, IT IS
PROTECTION FOR RENTERS. IF YOU
ARE NOT EXPLOITING YOUR TENANTS
AS A LANDLORD THAN IT DOES
AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY. THOSE
LAWS ARE MEANT TO HOLD
LANDLORDS ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY
ARE EXPLOITING TENANTS. THAT
APPLIES TO THIS POTENTIAL
LEGISLATION THAT WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT. I ALSO WANTED TO
REITERATE ANOTHER POINT THAT
WAS JUST MADE. AND THEN SORT
OF ADD TO THAT. HE SAID THAT
LANDLORDS CAN CHARGE ALL OF
THESE THINGS BUT THEN A TENANT
CANNOT CHARGE IN THE RIVERS.
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE THAT TED
GAVE. THERE'S NO RECOURSE FOR A
TENANT TO DO THAT. I WANTED TO
ALSO MENTION IN THIS CONTEXT
THAT WE HAVE SEEN MANY CASES
WHERE TENANTS ARE EVICTED
BECAUSE OF FAILING TO PAY A FEW
DOLLARS OF THE RENT BECAUSE OF
THEIR FINANCIAL HARDSHIP. ON
THE OTHER HAND, THERE IS NO
REVERSE LAW THAT IF THE
LANDLORD REFUSES TO FIX THE
PROBLEMS, FOR EXAMPLE IF YOUR
HEAT IS NOT WORKING IN THE
WINTER, THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE
OF WHAT HAPPENS TO A LOT OF LOW
INCOME TENANTS. IT'S A SURVIVAL
ISSUE. ESPECIALLY FOR FAMILIES
WITH CHILDREN AND SENIOR
CITIZENS. WE DON'T HAVE A LAW
IN SEATTLE , THIS IS SOMETHING
MY OFFICE WILL BE PUSHING FOR.
I JUST WANT TO SAY, THERE IS NO
LAW THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU AS A
TENANT FILE A COMPLAINT THAT
SOMETHING IS NOT WORKING IN
YOUR RENTAL HOME WITH THE
DEPARTMENT OF CONSTRUCTION
INSPECTION AND THE LANDLORD
FAILED TO FIX THE PROBLEM.
THERE IS NO RECOURSE. YOU, AS
A TENANT, DON'T GET TO SAY THE
LANDLORDS NEEDS TO PAY ME FOR
ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT THEY
FAILED TO FIX. THERE IS NO
SUCH REVERSE LAW. THAT IS A
PRIME EXAMPLE OF THE IMBALANCE
OF POWER. AND THAT IS THE
CONTEXT IN WHICH WE SHOULD LOOK
AT IT. I DON'T ACTUALLY AGREE.
THIS IS MY POLITICAL OPINION ,
OBVIOUSLY OTHERS HAVE DIFFERENT
OPINIONS. I DON'T ACTUALLY
AGREE THAT CORPORATE LANDLORDS
AND THE LANDLORDS WERE
EXPLOITING THEIR TENANTS DON'T
HAVE A PLATFORM. THE COMMITTEE
, THIS IS RENTERS RIGHTS. THAT
IS THE NAME OF THE COMMITTEE.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS THERE
PLATFORM. THE STATUS QUO HAS
BEEN THEIR PLATFORM. THAT IS
WHY WE HAVE HAD TO PUSH FOR THE
LAWS THAT WE HAVE BEEN PUSHING
FOR AND WINNING. IT'S NOT A
POLITICALLY MUTUAL SITUATION.
LANDLORDS ALSO HAVE COMPLAINTS.
TENANTS HAVE COMPLAINTS. MOST
OFTEN TENANTS ARE BEING
EXPLOITED BY CORPORATE
LANDLORDS. AND FOR THE
LANDLORDS THAT ARE NOT DOING
THE WRONG THING, THESE LAWS DO
NOT AFFECT THEM ANYWAY. IN
FACT, WE HAVE HAD LANDLORDS WHO
HAVE SUPPORTED US, SMALL
LANDLORDS WHO HAVE SUPPORTED
EVERY SINGLE RENTERS RIGHTS
THAT WE HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BE
IN THE BUSINESS OF EXPLOITING
THE TENANTS. I DEFINITELY AGREE
THAT WE SHOULD LOOK AT THE
NONPROFIT QUESTION. I
APPRECIATE THE COUNCIL MEMBERS
BRINGING THAT FORWARD. DEVIN
AND KATE, LET'S TALK ABOUT
FINANCE IN TERMS OF IF THERE IS
DATA WE CAN BRING FORWARD AND
HOW WE CAN TAKE THAT INTO
ACCOUNT. IN THAT CONTEXT I
WOULD ALSO SAY , AT THE END OF
THE DAY FOR THE TENANT IT
DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO
THE LANDLORD IS. IF YOU'RE
GETTING EXPLOITED YOU'RE
GETTING EXPLOITED. WE WANT TO
AND EXPLOITATION OF TENANTS AS
A WHOLE. WE SHOULD DEFINITELY
TAKE ALL OF THOSE THINGS INTO
ACCOUNT. I THINK THAT AMOUNT
IS WHAT IS GOING TO BE
NECESSARY TO IMPROVE THE LIVES
OF RENTERS IN OUR CITY, IN MY
VIEW ANYWAY. AND I'M SURE
RENTERS WILL AGREE.
COUNCILMEMBER NELSON, YOU STILL
HAVE YOUR HAND UP. DID YOU
HAVE A FOLLOW-UP?
>> I HAD A FOLLOW-UP. DID YOU
SAY THE LATE FEES GO AWAY ONCE
YOU ARE IN EVICTION COURT?
>> YOU CANNOT BE EVICTED OVER
LATE FEES ALONE. YES. ONCE YOU
ARE CONVICTED THE FEES ARE NOT
REALLY THERE OR THEY MOVE IT
TO $75. BUT THERE IS A WHOLE
WORLD IN EVICTION COURT .
>> YOU CAN BE EVICTED FOR
NONPAYMENT OF RENT BUT TO LATE
FEES DO NOT CAUSE EVICTION
THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY GO
AWAY?
>> WHAT CAN HAPPEN IS YOU COULD
HAVE $500 IN YOUR LEDGER AND
THEN PAY RENT ON THE 20th OF
THE MONTH BECAUSE YOU ARE
TRYING TO PAY EARLY AND NOT GET
A LATE FEE. THEY CAN TAKE THAT
MONEY THAT YOU PAID AND IT WAS
MEANT FOR RENT AND APPLY TO THE
LATE FEES AND NOW YOUR RENT IS
BEHIND. ONCE YOU OWE MONEY TO
YOUR LANDLORD AND THEY ARE
ALLEGING MONEY FOR FEES,
DAMAGES, NOTICE FEES, WHATEVER
THEY ARE CREATING. IT'S ON YOUR
LEDGER. IT HAS ACTUALLY BECOME
INCREASINGLY TECH SAVVY. A LOT
OF PEOPLE CAN LOCK YOU IF YOU
DON'T PAY THE CORRECT AMOUNT
THAT SAYS, BALANCE DUE. BUT
THAT BALANCE DUE WOULD INCLUDE
YOUR RENT PLUS THE LATE FEES
FROM THE PREVIOUS MONTH. A LOT
OF TENANTS CAN'T EVEN JUST PAY
THEIR RENT AS USUAL IF THERE IS
A FEE ON THEIR ACCOUNT BECAUSE
IT SAYS, SEND THE FULL AMOUNT
OR ELSE GOODBYE. THE FACT THAT
THIS IS MORE TECHNOLOGICALLY
-- AS WE MOVE INTO THE TECH
SECTOR THINGS WOULD NOT BE
POSSIBLE THAT COULD BE
POSSIBLE VIA APPLE. ACCORDING
TO THE APP YOU JUST HAVE A
BUTTON TO PUSH. IF YOU WERE IN
A COURT OF LAW THERE IS A WAY
TO FIGHT TO THE LATE FEES .
EVERYTHING BEFORE THE COURT OF
LAW, THERE'S REALLY NOTHING.
THAT'S WHY HAVING A CLEAR
REGULATION WOULD REALLY PROTECT
TENANTS.
>> BECAUSE OF THE AUDIO I'M
HAVING A HARD TIME
UNDERSTANDING WHAT HE'S SAYING.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU MENTIONED
THIS ALREADY. THERE IS ALSO
DATA THAT SHOWS THAT TENANTS
END UP SELF EVICTING WHEN THEY
RUN INTO PROBLEMS BECAUSE THEY
DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN. ONE OF THE THINGS IS
THE HOUSING JUSTICE PROJECT,
WHICH DOES PROVIDE. THERE IS
FUNDING FOR LEGAL DEFENDANTS
FACING EVICTION. THEY HAVE SAID
MANY TIMES HOW A LOT OF
TENANTS WHO END UP IN EVICTION
COURT, THEY ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW
WHAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE. IT'S
CATCHING THEM AT THE WORST
POSSIBLE SITUATION SOMETIMES IN
THEIR LIVES. THEY ARE HAVING
FINANCIAL ISSUES. THEY ARE
PROBABLY HAVING OTHER PROBLEMS
IN THEIR LIVES. AS MUCH AS WE
CAN , PREVENT THESE THINGS FROM
HAPPENING IN THE FIRST PLACE
AND NOT PUTTING THE RENTERS IN
A SITUATION WHERE THEY NEED TO
KNOW THE LETTER OF THE LAW,
EVERY DETAILED IN ORDER TO
DEFEND THEMSELVES. THAT IS NOT
THE CASE. I DON'T THINK THEY
ACTUALLY -- THAT WOULD BE GOOD.
THE LATE FEE LAW THAT WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT HERE IS ALSO
GOING TO PLAY THAT ROLL.
UPFRONT THE TENANTS WILL BE
PROTECTED IS PREVENT THE
LANDLORD FROM DOING SOMETHING
LIKE THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
>> SELF EVICTIONS ARE ACTUALLY
VERY COMMON. IF YOU ARE SCARED
THAT YOU CAN'T PAY YOUR RENT OR
OWE MONEY THEY SAY , OR
VACATE, AND UNFORTUNATELY WITH
THAT HAPPENS RELATIVELY OFTEN
IS THE LANDLORD WILL SERVE THE
APARTMENT BUILDING BECAUSE THE
TENANT DID NOT NOTIFY THE
LANDLORD CORRECTLY. THE
LANDLORD WILL AFFECT AN EMPTY
APARTMENT BUILDING. SO WE WORK
TO HELP PEOPLE WITH PREVIOUS
EVICTIONS TO OTHERWISE REPAIR
THEIR RENTAL HISTORY BECAUSE
THE CAN'T FIND APARTMENTS NOW.
I HAVE ONE TENANT WHO THOUGHT,
I CAN'T PAY. SO SHE JUST LEFT.
AND THEN SHE MOVES TO ANOTHER
PLACE. WHAT SHE DID NOT KNOW
IS IT'S A WEIRD, SCARY LEGAL
PROCESS. THEY WERE GOING
THROUGH THE EVICTION
PROCEEDINGS AGAINST HER EMPTY
APARTMENT TWICE. SO NOW THIS IS
A TENANT WHO WAS HOMELESS WHO
HAS TWO EVICTIONS ON HER RECORD
AND CANNOT GET INTO A HOUSE.
SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS FOLLOWING
THE RULES. OH MY GOD, VACATE.
THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS. YOU HAVE
THESE AMOUNT OF DAYS TO PAY OR
VACATE. SHE SAID, OKAY. -- I
CAN'T IMAGINE MOVING EVERYTHING
I OWNED OUT OF MY APARTMENT IN
THREE DAYS. BECAUSE THE LEGAL
PROCESS IS INHERENTLY
INTIMIDATING, BECAUSE THE LEGAL
PROCESS IS INHERENTLY ARCANE,
IF PEOPLE DON'T RESPOND
CORRECTLY OR THEY GET A NOTICE
AND THEY THINK, THAT MEANS I
HAVE TO LEAVE NOW. THERE ARE
ALL KINDS OF UNKNOWN
CONSEQUENCES THAT CAN STEM FROM
THAT YEARS DOWN THE LINE.
PARTICULARLY IF THOSE NOTICES
STEM FROM A $200 LATE FEE. IT'S
REALLY WORTH JUST PAYING THAT
OFF IN ADVANCE.
>> THAT IS VERY HELPFUL. THANK
YOU FOR EXPLAINING THAT. JUST
IN THE INTEREST OF TIME AND
BECAUSE WE HAVE ALREADY HAD A
LOT OF QUESTIONS ,
COUNCILMEMBER NELSON YOUR
RESUME HAND IS STILL UP. IF
YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD, PLEASE GO
AHEAD AND ASK A QUESTION AND
THEN COUNCIL PRESIDENT JUAREZ,
YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP. TELLS
NUMBER NELSON, YOU'RE SHAKING
YOUR HEAD. OKAY. THANK YOU.
REALLY HELPFUL QUESTIONS. WE
WILL DEFINITELY MAKE THAT PART
OF THE DISCUSSION GOING
FORWARD. PRESIDENT JUAREZ, YOU
HAVE YOUR HAND UP.
>> I DID.
>> MAKE SURE YOU GO AHEAD. I
WILL HAVE KATE CLOSE IT OUT AND
THEN COUNCIL PRESIDENT JUAREZ,
YOU GO FIRST.
>> THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO
MAKE A COMMENT ON THE
CONTRACTING PIECE. THERE WILL
NEVER, TIME , AND IT SHOULD IN
A PERFECT WORLD, WHERE YOU WILL
HAVE EQUALITY BETWEEN A TENANT
AND THE LANDLORD. IT SHOULD BE
THAT WAY BUT ISN'T THAT WAY.
SIMPLY BY THE FACT OF PRIVATE
PROPERTY. THAT IS A WHOLE OTHER
DISCUSSION. SO I WANT TO GET
BACK TO WHAT WAS SAID. WE KNOW
THAT THESE KIND OF CONTRACTS
ARE GOVERNED BY STATE LAW AND
THE LANDLORD TENANT IS ALSO
GOVERNED BY STATE LAW. WHAT I
WANT TO GET BACK TO IS SOME OF
WHAT YOU HAD LISTED IN THAT
ONE SLIDE DECK. SOME OF THESE
ISSUES IN A CONTRACT, THEY
WILL ALWAYS HAVE SOME
INEQUALITY. BUT WHAT GETS
OFFENSIVE , WHEN THERE IS
DISPROPORTIONATE INEQUALITY, IS
WHEN IT BECOMES OFFENSIVE,
OBSCENE, UNCONSCIONABLE, AND
AGAINST PUBLIC POLICY. I WANT
TO FOCUS ON THOSE ISSUES FOR
PUBLIC POLICY THAT THE CITY
CAN LOOK AT AND SAY, THIS IS
BEYOND THE PALE IN A CONTRACT
FOR A TENANT TO AGREE TO THIS
IN A RENTAL AGREEMENT. WHY IT
IS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO SAY THAT
IS, AS COUNCILMEMBER NELSON
POINTED OUT, AND MADAM CHAIR
STATED AS WELL, I WANT TO SEE
THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LEDGER. I
THINK THAT WAS THE WORD THAT
YOU USED. OR THE OTHER SIDE OF
THE EQUATION. IF INDEED THESE
FEES COULD BE IMPOSED, ARE
IMPOSED, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR
FROM A LANDLORD, PROPERTY,
WHATEVER . AND I WOULD SAY, DO
YOU IMPOSE THESE FEES? NOT ALL
OF THESE OTHER CITY DEPARTMENTS
THAT IMPOSE FEES WHEN THERE
ARE LATE FEES . BUT YOU, AS AN
INDIVIDUAL, ARE GOING TO IMPOSE
A FEE FOR WATER, GAS, GARBAGE .
YOU DON'T OWN THOSE THINGS.
SO WHY ARE YOU IMPOSING A FEE
ON THAT? MAYBE THE LANDLORD
COMES BACK, OR WHOMEVER. THE
PROPERTY PERSON COMES BACK AND
SAYS, OWNED 10 PROPERTIES. THE
REASON WHY DO THAT IS BECAUSE
WHEN THE TENANT DOESN'T PAY
THAT I HAVE TO PAY. AND IF I
HAVE TO PAY THEN THAT COMES OUT
OF MY POCKET. AND THAT'S OKAY
TOO. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE
OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS. I DO
AGREE WITH WHAT MADAM CHAIR
SAID. THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY
FOR LANDLORDS AND OTHER FOLKS
TO COME FORWARD AND SAY, LET ME
SHOW YOU. I DON'T WANT TO BE
RUDE OR ANYTHING. IF YOU'RE
NOT DOING WRONG THEN YOU DON'T
HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.
THAT IS NOT AN ANSWER FOR ME. I
WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT. I'LL
HAVE MORE DISCUSSION AND TALK
TO MADAM CHAIR OFF-LINE. THAT
IS WHY I'M INCLINED TO BE
SUPPORTIVE WHEN I HAVE MORE
INFORMATION. I DO AGREE JUST
FROM THE LIST THAT YOU DID.
SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE TRULY
UNCONSCIONABLE. AND AGAINST
PUBLIC POLICY. BECAUSE WE ARE
IN THE REALM OF HOUSING AND
RENTAL WITH A DISPROPORTIONATE
AMOUNT OF POWER I BELIEVE THE
CITY COUNCIL HAS THE POWER TO ,
WHERE THERE IS A $10 CAP,
PERCENTAGE, WHATEVER NUMBER WE
CAN TALK ABOUT . WE ARE HOPING
THAT YOU COME BACK AND I'M SURE
THE MADAM CHAIR WILL MAKE SURE
OF THAT TO GIVE US OTHER SIDE
OF INFORMATION. THAT WAY WE CAN
HAVE A REALLY GOOD ,
PROFESSIONAL, KIND , DUTIFUL ,
RESPECTFUL DEBATE ABOUT THIS.
THAT'S IT.
>> THANK YOU, COUNCIL
PRESIDENT. JUST ON THE
QUESTION OF IF YOU ARE A GOOD
LANDLORD YOU DON'T HAVE TO
WORRY. IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE
GLIB. AS A MATTER FACT WE HAVE
SMALL LANDLORDS WHO DON'T
ENGAGE IN THIS KIND OF PUNITIVE
APPROACH TO THEIR TENANTS WHO
DO SUPPORT THE RIGHTS OF THEIR
TENANTS AND AGREE THAT THE
TENANTS ARE NOT THERE TO BE
EXPLOITED. IT IS COMING FROM
THAT SPIRIT. I ALSO AGREE WITH
YOU , WHICH IS WHY WE ARE
HAVING THIS INITIAL DISCUSSION
, AND I'M HAPPY ALL OF THESE
QUESTIONS HAVE COME UP. WE CAN
LOOK INTO ALL OF THIS AND MAKE
SURE WE ARE TAKING THOSE POINTS
INTO CONSIDERATION. I'M HAPPY
TO HEAR THAT YOU ARE INCLINED
TO UNDERSTAND HOW THIS ACTUALLY
PUTS A BURDEN ON THE TENANT.
THAT IS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.
KATE, DID YOU WANT TO GIVE
CLOSING REMARKS FROM YOUR SIDE?
>> THERE IS ONE MORE THING THAT
I WANTED TO ADD. HE POINTED
OUT THAT YOU CANNOT BE EVICTED
FOR LATE FEES. BUT UNLESS IT'S
EXPLICITLY CLEAR THAT WHATEVER
PAYMENTS YOU ARE MAKING TO THE
LANDLORD GO TOWARDS YOUR RENT ,
IF YOU GET CAUGHT UP QUICKLY
BUT DON'T HAVE THE SPARE MONEY
FOR THE LATE FEES IMMEDIATELY,
IF THE LANDLORD CHOOSES TO
APPLY THE MONEY THAT YOU GAVE
THEM FOR THE NEXT MONTH TO LATE
FEES INSTEAD OF TEAR RENT THEN
YOU ARE LATE ON RENT AGAIN.
THIS COULD BECOME A VERY
QUICKLY BUILDING CYCLE AND
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF THAT.
>> SEEMED TO MEAN THAT IT DOES
RESULT IN EVICTION PROCEEDINGS
OR AT LEAST THE THREAT OF
EVICTION?
>> IF YOUR RENT WAS $2000 AND
YOU FELL BEHIND BUT WERE ABLE
TO GET CAUGHT UP AND YOU GAVE
YOUR LANDLORD A CHECK NEXT
MONTH FOR $4000 AND THEY
APPLIED WHATEVER THE LATE FEES
WERE , $400 TO THAT AND REMOVED
IT. NOW YOU ARE $400 SHORT FOR
THE NEXT MONTH. UNLESS IT IS
EXPLICIT THAT IT IS FOR RENT
ONLY AND NOT TO BE USED FOR
FEES, WHICH MOST TENANTS DO
NOT KNOW HOW TO CONVEY THAT
INFORMATION OR THERE IS NOT A
WAY TO DO IT ONLINE IF THEY ARE
TRYING TO PAY THROUGH THE
PORTAL. AS POINTED OUT, THEY
COULD BE LOCKED OUT COMPLETELY.
>> RIGHT. THANK YOU. TED, WERE
YOU LOOKING TO ADD SOMETHING?
DEVON, DID YOU WANT TO ADD
SOMETHING BEFORE WE CLOSE FOR
TODAY?
>> KATE SAID IT WELL. IF YOU'RE
ATTEMPTING DO PAY YOUR RENT IN
FULL BUT YOU MISSED A LATE FEE
THE MONEY GETS PUT TOWARD THE
WRONG BUCKET OF CHARGES. IF YOU
DON'T PAY RENT IN FULL THEN
THEY CAN TAKE YOU FOR EVICTION.
>> RIGHT. THANK YOU ALL SO
MUCH , DEVIN AND KATE, FOR
COMING AND PRESENTING. AND
ALSO COUNCILMEMBERS,
PARTICULARLY COUNCILMEMBER AND
NELSON AND COUNCILMEMBER
JUAREZ. THANK YOU FOR ENGAGING
IN THIS DISCUSSION. WE WILL
MAKE SURE TO TAKE MANY OF THE
QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP TODAY
AND THE POINTS TO HAVE A FULLER
DISCUSSION WHEN WE MAYBE HAVE
A MORE CONCRETE DISCUSSION
RELATED TO THE LEGISLATION. AS
I SAID, IT WILL HAPPEN IN MID
FEBRUARY, MAYBE LATE FEBRUARY.
WE WILL SEE WHEN THE COMMITTEE
MEETING IS.
>> WE COULD PROBABLY DO IT
QUICKLY WITH OUR OWN STAFF. YOU
THINK YOU COULD HAVE YOUR STAFF
SEND US WHAT THE AUBURN LAW
LOOKS LIKE? I WOULD LOVE TO SEE
THAT.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> IS THAT IN YOUR HEAD
ALREADY? OKAY, GOOD.
>> I TOTALLY APPRECIATE YOUR
REMINDING ME. I WAS JUST
SHOWING YOU -- AFTER QUESTIONS
CAME UP THAT WE SHOULD
ABSOLUTELY SHARE THAT
INFORMATION. AND IF IT HELPS
FOR YOUR OFFICE STAFF TO HAVE A
MEETING WITH TED AND SOMETHING
ELSE IN MY OFFICE, WE ARE
TOTALLY HAPPY TO SET THAT UP.
BUT WE WILL SEND WHATEVER
INFORMATION WE CAN YOUR WAY.
>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO BE WITH
TED.
>> WHEN WILL WE GET A DRAFT OF
THE LEGISLATION THAT YOU ARE
WORKING ON JUST SO THAT WE
COULD KNOW MORE PRECISELY WHAT
YOU'RE THINKING?
>> YOU'RE WELCOME TO CHECK --
SHE'S DOING THE DRAFTING. WHAT
SHE HAS TOLD US IS THAT , JUST
IN TERMS OF THE TIMING, THAT
DRAFTING THE LEGISLATION
DOESN'T TAKE A LONG TIME BUT
THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE JUST
HAS A BACKLOG OF THINGS TO LOOK
AT. WAITING UNTIL MID FEBRUARY
BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN THEY WILL
BE ABLE TO BEGIN AND COMPLETE
THE REVIEW OF THIS LEGISLATION.
IT ALL DEPENDS IF YOU WANT IT
BEFORE OR AFTER HE GOES TO THE
CITY ATTORNEY OFFICES REVIEW.
>> THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
THANKS.
>> WE WILL DEFINITELY SHARE IT
WITH YOU ONCE IT'S READY. THANK
YOU ALL. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO
OUR NEXT DISCUSSION . I
APPRECIATE EVERYONE. UNLESS
THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE
GOOD OF THE ORDER.
>> WHEN ARE WE MEETING AGAIN?
DO YOU KNOW? I WANT TO BE OUT
OF TOWN IN FEBRUARY. THAT'S
WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT.
>> ARE YOU OUT OF TOWN THEN?
>> I'M IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
>> WE ARE FLEXIBLE. IF THERE
IS ANOTHER DATE THAT WORKS FOR
YOU AND THE OTHER MEMBERS OF
THE COMMITTEE THEN WE ARE HAPPY
TO RESCHEDULE. LET'S TALK ABOUT
IT OFF-LINE.
>> OKAY. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU AND THANK YOU FOR
THE HEADS UP. IT IS 10:51 A.M.
THE MEETING OF THE SUSTAINABLE
RENTERS COMMITTEE WILL BE
ADJOURNED. HAVE A GOOD REST OF
YOUR DAY.
>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU, DEVIN.
THANK YOU, KATE.