>>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. THI
IS THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED
MEETING OF THE SUSTAINABILITY
AND RENTERS RIGHTS MEETING OF
THE SEATTLE CITY COUNCIL. TODAY
IS FRIDAY, MARCH 17, 2023 AND
THE TIME IS 9:31 A.M. I AM THE
CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE, KSHAMA
SAWANT. WILL THE CLERK PLEASE
CALL THE ROLL.
>> COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT.
>> PRESENT.
>> COUNCILMEMBER JUAREZ.
>> HERE.
>> COUNCILMEMBER MORALES.
>> HERE.
>> PRESENT. ER LEWIS.
>> COUNCILMEMBER NELSON. FOR OU
PRESENT.
>> THANK YOU AND THANK YOU
COUNCILMEMBERS, COMMITTEE
MEMBERS, FOR BEING HERE. FIRST
WE WILL DISCUSS THE TWO POINTS
ON THE AGENDA. LEGISLATION TO
CAP LATE FEES FOR RENTERS AT
$10 PER MONTH, WHICH MY OFFICE
IS BRINGING FORWARD ALONGSIDE
RENTERS RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, THE
STAY HEALTHY COALITION AND
SOCIALIST ALTERNATIVE. THERE
ARE CURRENTLY NO LIMITS TO THE
FEES SEATTLE LANDLORDS CAN
CHARGE RENTERS FOR OVERDUE RENT
SOME RENTERS HAVE TOLD US THEY
ARE CHARGED UPWARDS OF $250 AS
SOON AS RENT IS OVERDUE AND
MANY LEASES HAVE CLAUSES WHERE
LANDLORDS CAN CHARGE AN
ADDITIONAL 40 OR $50 WHEN
RENTERS ARE LATE. OTHER RENTERS
HAVE FACED LATE FEES AND LATE
FEE NOTICE DELIVERY FEES, WHICH
IS AN ADDITIONAL FEE FOR THE
PRIVILEGE OF HAVING TO PAY A
LATE FEE. FOR WORKING-CLASS
RENTERS THIS IS A PUNCH IN THE
GUT FOR BEING A COUPLE OF DAYS
LATE ON RENT AND FOR PEOPLE WH
ARE TEMPORARILY UNABLE TO PAY
RENT, LATE FEES CAN SPIRAL OUT
OF CONTROL. RENTERS DO NOT GET
PAID LATE FEES WHEN THEIR
LANDLORD DELAYS FIXING BROKEN
APPLIANCES, HEATING, OR MOLD
INFESTATIONS, YET RENTERS HAVE
TO PAY RENT ON TIME REGARDLESS
OF WHETHER OR NOT THEIR LANDLOR
COMPLETED REPAIRS. WE CANNOT
WAIT FOR DEMOCRATS IN OLYMPIA T
DEFEND THE RIGHTS OF RENTERS.
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 8 WAS THE
DEADLINE IN OLYMPIA AND NO
SUBSTANTIVE RENTERS RIGHTS BILL
WERE BROUGHT TO A VOTE BY THE
DEMOCRATS. EVEN A BILL TO CAP
LATE FEES, HOUSE BILL 1124, WAS
PUSHED ASIDE WITHOUT A VOTE.
KEEP IN MIND THAT RENTERS ARE
BEING SOLD OUT BY DEMOCRATS,
EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE A SOLID
MAJORITY AGAINST THE
REPUBLICANS. AS OF JANUARY,
2023, DEMOCRATS CONTROLLED BOT
HOUSES OF THE LEGISLATURE. THEY
HOLD A 58-40 MAJORITY IN THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND A
29-20 MAJORITY IN THE SENATE AN
THEY REFUSED TO FIGHT FOR
RENTERS, INSTEAD UPHOLDING THE
GREED OF LANDLORDS AND PROPERTY
MANAGEMENT CORPORATIONS. BUT I
IS NOT JUST ABOUT THIS YEAR.
DEMOCRATS HAVE CONTROLLED THE
GOVERNOR'S MANSION FOR 30 OUT O
THE LAST 30 YEARS. THE HOUSE
FOR 23 YEARS. THEY HAD A
MAJORITY IN THE SENATE SINCE
2018 AND IN THE HOUSE SINCE
2002, SO THIS IS THE FIFTH YEA
IN A ROW WITH A MAJORITY IN BOT
HOUSES AND IN ALL THAT TIME
DEMOCRATIC PARTY POLITICIANS
HAVE PLAYED A GAME WITH
PROGRESSIVE ACTIVISTS WHERE THE
PROPOSE BILLS FOR WORKERS RIGHT
AND OTHER THINGS WORKING-CLASS
PEOPLE NEED, BUT NEVER CALL
THEM TO A VOTE. THE BILLS DIE
WITHOUT POLITICIANS NEEDING TO
GO ON RECORD HAVING VOTED NO.
RENTS KEEP GOING UP AND THEY
WANT US TO BELIEVE NO ONE IS TO
BLAME. SINCE 1981, WASHINGTON
STATE HAS BANNED ANY CITY FROM
ENACTING ANY FORM OF RENT
CONTROL. THIS IS A CONTEXT IN
WHICH WE HAVE BROUGHT THIS BILL
FORWARD, ESPECIALLY I THINK TH
STAY HEALTHY COALITION FOR
GETTING PEOPLE'S ATTENTION ON
THIS AND REALLY ADVOCATING FOR
THIS AND WE WILL HEAR SOME OF
THE ADVOCACY TODAY IN THIS
COMMITTEE. IN ADDITION MY OFFIC
HAS PREPARED A FREQUENTLY ASKE
QUESTIONS DOCUMENT ABOUT LATE
FEES. WE HAVE DOCUMENTS WE CAN
SHARE OF PEOPLE WOULD LIKE AND
ALSO IT IS AVAILABLE ONLINE. FO
TODAY'S DISCUSSION, COUNCIL
CENTRAL STAFF WILL DESCRIBE
LEGISLATION AND ANSWER QUESTION
FROM COUNCILMEMBERS AND THEN W
WILL HEAR FROM A PANEL OF
RENTERS, AS I SAID, AND RENTERS
RIGHTS ACTIVISTS. TODAY'S
DISCUSSION WILL BE AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR COUNCILMEMBERS
AND THE PUBLIC TO CONSIDER THE
BILL AND HAVE QUESTIONS
ANSWERED. I INTEND TO BRING THI
TO A VOTE AT OUR NEXT MEETING,
APRIL 7. I URGE RENTERS RIGHTS
ACTIVISTS WERE HERE TODAY TO
ALSO JOIN US APRIL 7. THE SECON
AGENDA ITEM WILL BE TO DISCUSS
AND VOTE ON THE APPOINTMENT OF
SCHNIDINE SENDIA REGISTIN. I AM
SORRY IF I AM NOT SAYING YOUR
NAME RIGHT, TO THE SEATTLE
RENTERS' COMMISSION. THE FINAL
ITEM WHICH IS ALSO AN
APPOINTMENT WAS REMOVED FROM TH
AGENDA, BECAUSE THE NOMINEE
INFORMED US THEY ARE NO LONGER
AVAILABLE TO SERVE ON THE
COMMISSION. BEFORE WE BEGIN THE
FIRST AGENDA ITEM, WE WILL HEA
PUBLIC COMMENT. CAN YOU LET US
KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE
SIGNED UP?
>> THERE ARE NINE, OR 10, IN
COUNCIL CHAMBERS AND THEN 23
REMOTE.
>> OKAY. I THINK IT WILL MAKE
SENSE FOR EVERYBODY TO HAVE A
MINUTE TO SPEAK, SINCE WE HAVE
MANY SIGNED UP. SO EACH SPEAKER
WILL HAVE ONE MINUTE TO SPEAK.
LET ME READ OUT THE NAMES OF TH
SPEAKERS. AND FOR PEOPLE
SPEAKING REMOTELY, WHEN I CALL
YOUR NAME, YOU WILL BE PROMPTED
TO UNMUTE YOUR SELF. WHEN YOU
HEAR THAT, PLEASE HIT STAR 6
ON YOUR PHONE TO UNMUTE YOURSEL
AND BEGIN. THESE ARE THE NAMES
OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE, RIGHT?
AND YOU HAVE THE NAMES OF THE
PEOPLE ONLINE? ALL RIGHT, LET'S
START WITH THE SPEAKERS IN
PERSON. I WILL READ OUT THREE
IN A ROW SO YOU KNOW TO BE
READY. OUR FIRST THREE SPEAKERS
-- GO AHEAD.
>> GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEMBER
SAWANT, COUNCILMEMBER MORALES,
AND THE ESTEEMED COMMITTEE HER
TODAY FIGHTING FOR HOUSING
RIGHTS AND ACCESS TO STAY
HOUSED. THE RENTS ARE GOING UP
INCOME IS NOT GOING UP.
LANDLORDS ARE DENYING PARTIAL
PAYMENT OR PLEDGES, FORCING
RENTERS TO GO FURTHER IN
ARREARS. TENANTS CANNOT HANDLE
ANY MORE INCREASES IN THEIR
HOUSING. HOUSING HAS TO BE
STABLE. THE ONLY WAY THAT WE
CAN DO THAT IS TO STOP THE BAD
ACTORS FROM ACTING. THE CURREN
EXPERIENCE THAT RENTERS ARE
HAVING --
>> AT STATE AND CITY LEVELS OVE
THE PAST COUPLE YEARS.
>> OKAY, HOLD ON. LET'S FIGURE
OUT -- OKAY, PEOPLE ARE MUTED
AGAIN.
>> -- SO IT IS UNCONSCIONABLE
AND WE NEED STATE ACTION, COUNT
ACTION, AND THE CITY OF SEATTLE
AND THROUGH YOUR LEADERSHIP,
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT, YOU ARE
SEEING PEOPLE WHO ARE YOUR
NEIGHBORS WHO ARE TRULY
STRUGGLING AND FROM THE TENANT
LOSS CENTER AND A RENTER IN
SEATTLE, URGE YOU TO PASS THIS.
I HAVE A GREAT LANDLORD. I DON'
HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS. NOT
EVERYBODY IS IN THAT SITUATION.
YOUR ADVOCACY TODAY MATTERS. IT
WILL STAND THE TASTE TEST OF
TIME. THANK YOU FOR YOUR
DISSENT.
>> MARSHALL, FOLLOWED BY --
>> HELLO, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK
THE CHAMBER FOR ALLOWING ME TO
SPEAK. I AM A RENTER LIVING IN
THE UNIVERSITY DISTRICT. I'M
HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE
BILL TO CAP LATE FEES FOR
OVERDUE RENT AT $10 PER MONTH.
LANDLORDS IN SEATTLE ARE GIVEN
LEEWAY TO EXPLOIT AND EXTRACT
FROM RENTERS AND NOTHING IS
BEING DONE ABOUT IT. WHEN A
WORKING-CLASS PERSON CANNOT PAY
ON TIME THEY ARE PENALIZED WITH
A LATE FEE, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY
DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY. THE
PEOPLE DISPROPORTIONATELY
AFFECTED OUR THOSE ARE CITY
DEPENDS ON AND WE MUST PASS THI
LAW TO PROTECT ALL RENTERS IN
SEATTLE. THE CITY COUNCIL IS
EXPLICIT IN THIS EXPLOITATION O
HER NEIGHBORS IF THEY FAIL TO
PASS THIS. CLAIMS FROM LANDLORD
THAT LATE FEES WOULD MAKE THEM
SELL THEIR PROPERTIES OR CHARG
MORE LATE FEES FOR RENT. WE KNO
THIS ISN'T TRUE. WORKING-CLASS
PEOPLE IN THE CITY ARE CONCERNE
DAILY WITHOUT THE EXPENSE OF TH
CITY IS AND HOW WE WILL PAY OUR
RENTS AND WE DO SO TO AVOID LAT
FEES, REGARDLESS, PEOPLE FALL I
THE CRACKS. AT THE END OF THE
DAY, NO LANDLORD BIG OR SMALL
HAS THE RIGHT TO GOUGE THEIR
TENANTS. PASS THIS BILL AND CAP
LATE FEES AT $10 NOW. THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME.
>> -- FOLLOWED BY ALEJANDRO. G
AHEAD.
>> GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEMBERS
I AM A HOMEOWNER IN FREMONT IN
DISTRICT SIX AND I AM AN
ORGANIZER FOR TECH FOR HOUSING.
I VOTE YOU TO VOTE YES ON THE
LEGISLATION TO CAP LATE FEES AT
$10 PER MONTH. I DO NOT BELIEV
HAVING A LATE FEE AS
INCENTIVIZING RENTAL PAYMENTS.
WHEN I WAS A RENTER, PAYING ON
TIME WAS NEVER ABOUT LATE FEES,
BUT RATHER BEING EVICTED FOR
NOT PAYING RENT. AS SOMEONE WHO
IS WEALTHY ENOUGH TO OWN MY
PRIMARY HOME AND A RENTAL, LAT
FEES AND DELIVERY FEES DOES NOT
IMPACT MY DAY-TO-DAY LIFE, BUT
THE FEES HAVE A HUGE IMPACT FOR
SOMEONE ALREADY STRUGGLING TO
MAKE RENT. LATE FEES ONLY MAKE
IT HARDER FOR RENTERS TO CATCH
UP ON RENTAL PAYMENTS. AS A
LANDLORD I WOULD MUCH PREFER TO
PRIORITIZE THOSE PAYMENTS THAN
LATE FEES. PRIOR TO WORKING ON
THIS ISSUE I WAS UNAWARE OF
LATE FEES AS MY LEASE WAS A
BOILERPLATE FROM A PROPERTY
MANAGEMENT COMPANY. WITH THIS
KNOWLEDGE I WILL WORK WITH
PROPERTY MANAGEMENT TO BRING MY
LATE FEE DOWN FROM $100-$10 IN
THE COMING MONTHS. I URGE
SEATTLE TO FOLLOW IN THE
FOOTSTEPS AND ENACT THE COMMON
SENSE MEASURE. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU. THAT IS REALLY
APPRECIATED, SPEAKING FROM A
LANDLORDS PERSPECTIVE,
SUPPORTING $10 A MONTH LATE FEE
WE HAVE ALEJANDRO, FOLLOWED BY
FREEMAN AND THEN DANIEL. GO
AHEAD.
>> YES, I URGE YOU TO VOTE YES
>> MOVED CLOSER.
>> MY NAME IS ALLIE AND JOE. I
URGE YOU TO VOTE YES ON THIS TO
CAP RENT AT $10 PER HOUR. I HAV
BEEN IN SEATTLE FOR ABOUT 4 1/
YEARS. SINCE THEN I MOVED AROUN
ALL OVER THE CITY AND I HAVE
BEEN IN A LOT OF SITUATIONS
WHERE A LATE FEE WOULD HAVE
MEANT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
BEING HOMELESS OR HAVING FOOD O
THE TABLE OR JUST BEING ABLE
TO AFFORD OTHER BILLS. YOU KNOW
SO I THINK THAT THIS IS VERY
IMPORTANT. NOT JUST THAT, BUT
WHEN LANDLORDS CHARGE CRAZY FEE
LIKE $250 FOR LATE FEES, IT
DOES NOT TAKE INTO CONSIDERATIO
THE PEOPLE WHO CANNOT WORK,
POSSIBLY OUR LATE AT THE MOMENT
BECAUSE OF ILLNESS OR INJURY AN
THEY GET THROWN, PUT ON THE
BACK BURNER, AND EVICTED
ANYWAY. MY FRIEND IS CURRENTLY
GOING THROUGH THIS. THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME.
>> DANIEL WANG, FOLLOWED BY
KATIE WILSON.
>> GOOD MORNING. I AM PART OF
AN ORGANIZING EFFORT FOR
HOMELESS AND FORMERLY HOMELESS
WOMEN CALLED WHEEL. AND I TALK
WITH HOMELESS WOMEN EVERY DAY,
INCLUDING AT THE WHEEL SHELTER
AT FIRST PRESBYTERIAN AND
TRINITY EPISCOPAL. EVERY
HOMELESS PERSON I TALKED TO WA
HOUSED. PREVIOUSLY. IF YOU ARE
LIVING ON THE MARGIN,
ANYTHING, GETTING SICK FOR A
WEEK OR THE CAR BREAKING DOWN,
CAN PUT YOU LATE FOR RENT. IF
YOU GET A LATE FEE OF $200 PLU
A NOTICE DELIVERY FEE OF $50,
YOU MIGHT NEVER CATCH UP AND
YOU END UP EVICTED WITH
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT.
WITHOUT -- THERE IS ALREADY NO
ENOUGH SHELTER FOR THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE CURRENTLY HOMELESS AND
WITHOUT SHELTER, PEOPLE DIE. YO
CAN SAVE LIVES BY VOTING TO CAP
THE LATE FEES AND BANNED THE
NOTICE DELIVERY FEES. THANK YOU
>> DANIEL, FOLLOWED BY KATIE
WILSON AND THEN THE POWERS.
>> HI, I AM AN ANIMAL ON
WAREHOUSE WORKER AND ALSO A
RENTER IN DISTRICT THREE AND IM
SPEAKING AND STRONG SUPPORT FO
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT'S
LEGISLATION TO CAP LATE FEES. I
HAVE A COWORKER WHO GOT INJURED
AT WORK, BECAUSE THAT HAPPENS A
AMAZON WAREHOUSES. HER HOURS GO
CUT IN HALF. MANY OF US LIVE
PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK. THAT ATE
THROUGH HER SAVINGS PRETTY FAST
RECENTLY SHE GOT HER HEADLIGHT
BLOWN OUT, SO SHE DRIVES TO WOR
EVERY DAY TERRIFIED OF GETTING
PULLED OVER AND PENALIZED FOR
HEADLIGHT SHE CAN'T AFFORD TO
FIX. IT IS HALFWAY THROUGH THE
MONTH, BUT SHE IS WORRIED ABOU
HOW SHE WILL PAY RENT IN THREE
WEEKS. THIS IS THE REALITY FOR
WORKING PEOPLE. WE ARE WORKING
ON POVERTY WAGES WITH UNCERTAIN
-- IN A CITY WHERE LANDLORDS
HAVE BLOWN RENT FASTER THAN
WAGES HAVE INCREASED. IT IS
BARBARIC LOGIC THAT THESE
EXORBITANT LATE FEES, WHICH AR
PUNISHMENTS, ARE REQUIRED TO
MAKE US PAY RENT ON TIME,
BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING MORE
STRESSFUL THAN NOT HAVING YOUR
RENT PAID ON TIME. I AM RUNNING
ON TIME, BUT ABSOLUTELY VOTE YE
TO CAP LATE FEES. THANK YOU.
>> AFTER KATIE WE HAVE THE
POWERS AND THEN JAKE -- SORRY I
I AM SAYING YOUR NAME WRONG.
>> HELLO COUNCILMEMBERS. THANK
YOU FOR HEARING MY COMMENT
TODAY. MY NAME IS KATIE WILSON,
THE GENERAL SECRETARY OF THE
TRANSIT RIDERS UNION. I HAVE
BEEN HELPING COLLATE THE STAY
HOUSED, STAY HEALTHY COALITION
AND I AM ALSO A RENTER ON
CAPITOL HILL. WE STRONGLY
SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION, BOTH
CAPPING LATE FEES AT $10 A MONT
WHICH THE CITIES OF AUBURN AND
BURIEN HAVE ALREADY DONE, AND W
ARE ALSO WORKING ON GETTING
CITIES AROUND THE COUNTY TO DO
THE SAME. WE THINK IT IS TIME
FOR SEATTLE TO MATCH THAT
STANDARD. THE ENDING NOTICE
DELIVERY FEES IS A GOOD START
AT ADDRESSING THIS INCREASING
PROBLEM OF PREDATORY FEES THAT
LANDLORDS ARE CHARGING. TALKING
TO RENTERS AT SEATTLE AND
AROUND THE COUNTY AND HEARING
STORIES LIKE THE ONES YOU ARE
HEARING TODAY. IT IS AN
INCREASING PROBLEM, LANDLORDS
NICKEL AND DINING TENANTS AT
EVERY TURN, SO THANK YOU SO MUC
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT FOR THIS
LEGISLATION AND WE HOPE THAT IT
PASSES IN THIS STRONG FORM.
THANK YOU.
>> JAKE AND THEN YULI
MATTHEWS.
>> GOOD MORNING, CITY COUNCIL
MEMBERS. AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS
MY NAME IS D POWERS AND I WOR
WITH SEATTLE. I WAS RECENTLY
RE-HOUSED, A YEAR AGO, AFTER
SEVEN YEARS OF HOMELESSNESS.
THOSE SEVEN YEARS OF
HOMELESSNESS WERE, IN PART,
CAUSED BECAUSE I HAD A FINANCIA
CRISIS THAT CAUSED ME TO GET
BEHIND ON MY RENT. I GOT IT PAI
UP TO FULL, BUT THE LATE FEES
TOOK ME UNDER AND I HAD TO MOV
ON. I ENDED UP ON THE STREETS,
FOR SEVEN YEARS. THOSE SAME
DEBTS KEPT ME -- ALMOST KEPT M
FROM GETTING RE-HOUSED LAST
YEAR. I HAD TO PAY THEM OFF
BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE COULD
HAPPEN. SO I BEG YOU FOR THE
STABILITY OF YOUR NEIGHBORS WH
ARE RENT BURDENED AND EVERYONE
ELSE, PLEASE CAP LATE FEES AT
$10. IT IS HARD ENOUGH OUT THER
ALREADY. THANK YOU.
>> HELLO, COUNCILMEMBERS. I HAV
BEEN A SEATTLE RENTER FOR OVER
20 YEARS NOW. I CURRENTLY LIVE
ON BEACON HILL IN DISTRICT TWO
AND I AM HERE TO SUPPORT THE
PROPOSAL TO CAP LATE FEES AT $1
PER MONTH AND TO BAN NOTICE
FEES. LAST SUMMER I RECEIVED
WRITTEN NOTICE FROM MY LANDLORD
DEMANDING I REMOVE POTTED PLANT
FOR MY BALCONY WITHIN 10 DAYS.
THIS MIGHT SOUND ABSURD, GIVEN
THAT MY LEASE SPECIFICALLY
PERMITS FLOWERS ON MY BALCONY,
BUT HERE IS THE KICKER. THE
NOTICE CAME WITH A $75 NOTICE
FEE. THIS HEFTY CHARGE -- THIS
HEFTY FEE WAS CHARGED FOR
PREPARING AND GIVING NOTICE
THAT THE PLANTS HAD TO GO. A
COUPLE MONTHS AGO I RECEIVED
ANOTHER $75 NOTICE FEE ALONG
WITH THE SAME PRETEXT. THESE AR
FEES LANDLORDS CHARGE SIMPLY
BECAUSE THEY CAN IN TODAY'S
RENTAL MARKET APPEARS TO BE
AMPLIFYING RATHER THAN
CORRECTING THEM. FOR THOSE
LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK,
THIS CAN BE A DEATH BLOW.
SKIPPING TO WORK -- LANDLORDS
ARE ABUSING THEIR POWER AND IT
IS WITHIN THE CURRENT LEGAL
AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE NOTICE FEES
WHENEVER THEY WANT TO BANK A
LITTLE MORE PROFIT. PLEASE
SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION. THAN
YOU.
>> THE LAST IN-PERSON SPEAKER
WHO SIGNED UP AND THEN THE
ONLINE.
>> HI, MY NAME IS -- I AM A
RENTER IN THE U-DISTRICT. I
JUST WANT TO URGE ALL DEMOCRAT
ON THE SEATTLE CITY COUNCIL TO
VOTE YES ON THE LEGISLATION FRO
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT'S OFFICE
TO CAP LATE FEES FOR OVERDUE
RENT AT $10 PER MONTH. EXTRA
CHARGES LIKE LATE FEES ARE AN
INSULT ON TOP OF OUT-OF-CONTRO
RENTS THAT RENTERS STRUGGLED TO
PAY. RENT HAS BEEN GOING UP IN
THE U-DISTRICT A LOT AND A LOT
OF US HAVE MULTIPLE JOBS TO PA
THAT. ON TOP OF BEING A STUDENT
I HAVE WORKED 2 TO 3 JOBS FOR M
ENTIRE TIME AT UW AND A LOT OF
STUDENTS ARE BECOMING HOMELESS
BECAUSE OF THE EXPENSIVE RENTS.
STUDENT HOUSING IS BECOMING
MORE AND MORE EXPENSIVE, SO I
URGE CITY COUNCIL TO FOLLOW AN
VOTE YES ON THIS LEGISLATION.
>> THE FIRST THREE REMOTE
SPEAKERS ARE HOWARD GALE,
FOLLOWED BY KEVIN, FOLLOWED BY
JENNIFER.
>> GOOD MORNING. HOWARD GALE,
DISTRICT 7 RENTER, SPEAKING
ABOUT LANDLORD ABUSE OF LATE
FEES AND EVICTIONS WITHOUT JUST
CAUSE. THE ABSURD AND PUNISHIN
LATE FEES, WHICH CAN WRITE
HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS, MUST BE
REINED IN BY THE COUNCIL AND
LIMITED TO $10, WHICH TODAY'S
PROPOSED LEGISLATION DOES.
HOWEVER, I ALONG WITH HUNDREDS
OF OTHER RENTERS ALMOST WISH
FOR A LATE FEE IN THE COMING
MONTHS INSTEAD OF EVICTION
WITHOUT CAUSE, AS LANDLORDS AND
DEVELOPERS HAVE FOUND A WAY WIT
THE COOPERATION OF SD TO NULLIF
LAWS AND EVICTIONS. LANDLORDS
AND DOZENS OF BUILDINGS ARE
EVICTING PEOPLE AND RAISING
RENTS BY 70 TO 100% BY SIMPLY
DOING TRIVIAL COSMETIC
RENOVATIONS. HOW CAN THE COUNCI
CLAIM THEY ARE FIGHTING
HOMELESSNESS WHILE THE CITY
REGULARLY ISSUES PERMIT FOR AN
END RUN AROUND TENANT LAWS THAT
WILL FORCE MORE PEOPLE INTO
HOMELESSNESS? HOW CAN
COUNCILMEMBERS THAT PROVIDE
TENANT PROTECTIONS THAT NOW ONL
EXIST ON PAPER AND NOT IN
REALITY PASS LEGISLATION TO
LIMIT LATE FEES THAT TAKE UP TH
URGENT WORK TO STOP THESE
EVICTIONS. THANK YOU.
>> KEVIN. YOU APPEAR TO BE
MUTED. THERE YOU GO.
>> THANKS, I JUST GOT IT.
>> I AM A RENTER AND EDUCATOR I
THE CENTRAL DISTRICT. I AM
CALLING TO URGE COUNCIL TO VOT
YES ON THE LEGISLATION TO CAP
LATE FEES AT $10 PER MONTH.
THIS LEGISLATION ADDRESSES THE
DIRE REALITY FACING RENTERS AS
THE COST OF LIVING HAS BEEN
GOING SKYHIGH DUE TO CORPORATE
PRICE GOUGING AND RENT INCREASE
OUTPACING THE GROWTH OF WAGES.
THEY ARE ALREADY STRUGGLING TO
PAY THEIR RENT IN THE FIRST
PLACE. I HAVE SEEN HO THIS
AFFECTS FAMILIES OF STUDENTS. I
AFFECTS THEIR EDUCATION. THEY
HAVE BOTH IMPLEMENTED THE $10
PER MONTH FEE AND THIS HAS BEEN
SUCCESSFUL. THIS IS AN EASY
STEP FOR CITY COUNCIL TO TAKE
AND RENTERS ARE FORCED TO
ACCEPT HOSTILE TERMS. THEY ARE
NOT FORCED TO ACCEPT HIGH
MORTGAGE RATES. THEY HAVE A LOT
MORE OPTIONS. IN A CITY WHERE
THEY HAVE EXTRACTED MUCH FROM
RENTERS, WE NEED PROTECTIONS -
THANK YOU.
>> JENNIFER FOLLOWED BY BARBARA
FINNEY, FOLLOWED BY ZEKE COHEN.
>> MY NAME IS JENNIFER AND I'M
SECOND-GENERATION HOUSING
PROVIDER. I HAVE 17 FAMILIES AN
SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES. IN THE
CAPITOL HILL NEIGHBORHOODS. I
HAVE BEEN A LONG-TERM RENTER
MYSELF. PLEASE VOTE NO ON
CAPPING LATE FEES AT $10 PER
MONTH. THESE ARE DESIGNED TO
INCENTIVIZE TENANTS TO PAY RENT
ON TIME. I KNOW NO TYPE OF
FINANCIAL TRANSACTION WHERE THE
LENDER HAS LITERALLY NO
PENALTIES IF THE BORROWER
DEFAULTS -- LAST MONTH I HAD
ATTENDED TO PAID RENT 17 DAYS
LATE. HAD THERE BEEN NO DAILY
PENALTY, THERE IS A HIGHER
LIKELIHOOD SHE WOULD HAVE NEVER
PAID. THE PROPOSED $10 CAP IS
UNTESTED AND CREATES A CHAOTIC
SCENARIO WHERE RENT WILL GO
UNPAID INDEFINITELY. A NOMINAL
$10 FEE IS NOT ENOUGH TO PAY
RENT ON TIME. LET ALONE EVER.
SUBSTANTIAL RESEARCH SHOULD BE
DONE BEFORE CONSIDERING THIS
TYPE OF LEGISLATION. DO NOT MOV
FORWARD WITH THIS LEGISLATION.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
>> BARBARA FINNEY.
>> I AM A RESIDENT OF DISTRICT
5, DELEGATE TO THE COUNTY LABOR
COUNCIL FOR THE UNION OF
GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, LOCAL --
WE REPRESENT HEALTHCARE WORKERS
FOR THE SEATTLE VA MEDICAL
CENTER AND CLINIC. I URGE ALL
DEMOCRATS ON THE CITY COUNCIL T
VOTE YES ON THE LEGISLATION FRO
THE OFFICE OF COMMITTEE CHAIR
KSHAMA SAWANT TO CAP LATE FEES
FOR OVERDUE RENT AT $10 PER
MONTH. THIS IS A WORKERS ISSUE.
OUR LOCAL UNANIMOUSLY ENDORSED
A RESOLUTION IN SUPPORT OF
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT'S
COMPREHENSIVE, CITYWIDE, RENT
CONTROL LEGISLATION. IT IS A
WORKERS ISSUE, EVEN MORE
PERTINENT TODAY. THE DEVASTATIN
LOSS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING
ALONG WITH SKYHIGH RENT
REPRESENTS A HUGE ISSUE FOR
RENTERS, FAMILIES,
NEIGHBORHOODS, SEATTLE RESIDENT
AND VETERANS. MANY WHO ARE
RENTERS. WE URGE THE COUNCI
-- SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION.
RENTERS ARE THE MAJORITY OF
CONSTITUENTS. THANK YOU.
>> ZEKE COHEN, FOLLOWED BY --
>> GOOD MORNING. I AM A UW
STUDENT WITH SOCIALIST
ALTERNATIVE AND WORKERS STRIKE
BACK. I STRONGLY URGE YOU ALL T
VOTE YES ON THE LEGISLATION FRO
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT'S OFFICE.
THE MOST COMMON REASON FOR LAT
RENT PAYMENTS IS FINANCIAL
DISTRESS. TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY
STRUGGLING BY FORCING THEM TO
PAY EXORBITANT LATE FEES IS
NOTHING SHORT OF EXPLOITATIVE.
MANY LANDLORDS CLAIM THEY NEED
TO CHARGE THESE FEES TO MAKE UP
ON THEIR MORTGAGE PAYMENTS, BU
RENTERS ARE OFTEN FORCED TO
ACCEPT HORRIBLE TERMS FROM
LANDLORDS BECAUSE THEY NEED THA
SHELTER TO SURVIVE. LANDLORDS
ON THE OTHER HAND ARE NOT FORCE
TO ACCEPT MORTGAGES AND THEY CA
ALWAYS SELL THEIR PROPERTIES. A
A YOUNG ADULT, PROSPECTS HAVE
NEVER BEEN LOWER. MORE AND MORE
I HEAR MY PEERS TALK ABOUT THE
STRUGGLE TO FIND AFFORDABLE
HOUSING ANYWHERE IN WESTERN
WASHINGTON. THIS LATE FEE CAP
IS NEEDED NOW MORE THAN EVER, S
AGAIN I URGE YOU TO VOTE YES ON
THIS LEGISLATION. THANK YOU FOR
YOUR TIME.
>> CELL ESTEEM. --
>> HELLO, COUNCILMEMBERS. I AM
THE TENANT SERVICES PROGRAM
MANAGER AT SOLID GROUND, CALLIN
TO SUPPORT THE LEGISLATION
INTRODUCED TODAY TO LIMIT
EXCESSIVE LATE FEES. THE SOLID
GROUND PROGRAM HELPS RENTERS
MAINTAIN STABLE HOUSING BY
SHARING EDUCATION ON THE RIGHTS
AND RESPONSIBILITIES AS RENTERS
AND THOSE OF THEIR LANDLORD. W
PROVIDE EDUCATION, COUNSELING,
AND RESOURCES TO OVER 750
RENTERS AT RISK OF EVICTION
EVERY YEAR. WE HAVE SEEN THE
HARM THAT EXCESSIVE LATE FEES
HAVE ON LOW AND MODERATE INCOME
RENTERS. WE SERVED A SINGLE
MOTHER WHO BECAME ILL AND
REQUIRED INJURY. SHE WAS UNABLE
TO WORK, CAUSING HER TO FALL
BEHIND ON RENT. THE LANDLORD
CHARGED 70 TYPE DOLLARS PER DAY
FOR LATE FEES. THIS MOTHER
SHARED THAT THE LATE FEES WERE
DETRIMENTAL TO HER ABILITY TO
PAY DOWN THE DEBT. IMPOSING
EXCESSIVE FEES ON TENANT
STRUGGLING TO PAY RENT MAKES IT
EVEN HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO KEEP
CURRENT HOUSING OR SECURE FUTUR
HOUSING. PLACING PEOPLE ONE
STEP CLOSER TO HOMELESSNESS. I
URGE THE COUNCIL TO SUPPORT THI
POLICY TODAY. THANK YOU FOR YOU
ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE AND FOR
HEARING OUR COMMENTS TODAY.
>> -- FOLLOWED BY AIDAN CAROL,
FOLLOWED BY BENJAMIN MARITZ.
YOU APPEAR TO BE MUTED. HIT STA
6 ON YOUR PHONE TO UNMUTE.
THERE YOU GO.
>> I URGE SUPPORT FOR THIS
ORDINANCE TO LIMIT LATE FEES AN
NOTICE FEES. THE SOLID GROUND
HOMELESSNESS PREVENTION PROGRAM
SUPPORTS PEOPLE FROM LOSING
THEIR HOUSES WITH ASSISTANCE -
AND ASSOCIATED UTILITIES AND
LATE FEES. IN 2022, A QUARTER
OF THE HOUSEHOLDS WE SERVE LIVE
IN SEATTLE.
USUALLY WEALTHY LANDLORDS AND
COMPANIES. LATE FEES SHOULD NOT
BE A WAY FOR LANDLORDS TO
INCREASE THEIR PROFITS AT THE
EXPENSE OF RENTERS WHO ARE
ALREADY STRUGGLING.
THANK YOU ALL.
>> YOU WERE DIFFICULT TO HEAR.
IT WAS CUTTING IN AND OUT, SO
FEEL FREE TO ALSO SEND YOUR
COMMENTS IN IN WRITING, IF YOU
WOULD LIKE. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS
AIDAN CAROL.
>> HELLO, I AM WITH STOP THE
SWEEPS. I WANTED TO BE THERE IN
PERSON TO SUPPORT THE LATE FEE
CAP, BUT I AM CURRENTLY UNDER
I-5 AT 42nd WITH MEMBERS OF BOT
ORGANIZATIONS, TRYING TO STOP A
HATE GROUP CALLED WE HEART
SEATTLE FROM COMING INTO THE
CAMP. WE THINK THEY LEFT FOR
NOW. THIS IS A RELEVANT ISSUE
AND RELATED. WE HEARD THAT
THERE WAS NOT FOLLOW-UP ACTION.
THIS IS NOT A CONVENTIONAL HATE
GROUP. IT IS DECEPTIVE,
PRETENDING TO BE HELPFUL AND
THEN STEALING HOMELESS PEOPLE
STUFF OR MAKING THEM LOOK BAD.
WE ALL KNOW THAT EVICTIONS CAUS
HOMELESSNESS. AND THAT TENANTS
NEED ALL THE RIGHTS THEY CAN GE
IN THIS ECONOMY, FOR SO MANY
REASONS. SO PLEASE PASS THIS
BILL. THANK YOU.
>> BENJAMIN, FOLLOWED BY GORDO
HAGGERTY, FOLLOWED BY ELENA --
>> HI, GOOD MORNING. I AM IN
AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROVIDER
BASED IN SEATTLE. CALLING IN
OPPOSITION TO THE LATE FEE CAP
AND IN FAVOR OF POLICIES THAT
WILL HELP REDUCE THE COST OF
RENT. MY COMPANY OPERATES ABOU
600 PRIVATELY FUNDED APARTMENT
IN SEATTLE. 50% AMI MEANS IF YO
ARE EARNING MINIMUM WAGE, YOU
CAN AFFORD TO LIVE IN ONE OF OU
APARTMENTS. BEING PRIVATELY
FUNDED MEANS WE DEPEND ON RENT
TO PAY OUR BILLS. WE PAY OUR
INVESTORS AND ATTRACT CAPITAL
THAT ALLOWS US TO BUILD MORE OF
THE HOUSING THAT WE ALL WANT
AND KEEP RENT LOW. WE CARE
DEEPLY ABOUT KEEPING PEOPLE
SAFELY HOUSED. WHEN SOMEONE
STRUGGLES WITH RENT AT ONE OF
OUR APARTMENTS, OUR TEAM LEAPS
INTO ACTION TO HELP THEM. WE AR
EXPERTS IN NAVIGATING THE
COMPLICATED SYSTEM OF RENTAL
ASSISTANCE AVAILABLE IN OUR
REGION. WE WORK WITH RESIDENTS
TRACK DOWN NONPROFITS, USE
SUPPORTS AND ALL OF THIS COSTS
MONEY. WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILIT
TO DEFRAY THE COST THROUGH LATE
FEES. WE WILL HAVE TO PASS IT O
TO EVERY OTHER RENTER IN OUR
PORTFOLIO. THANK YOU.
>> GORDON.
>> GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING,
CAN YOU HEAR ME?
>> YES.
>> HELLO. YES, GOOD MORNING, MY
NAME IS GORDON HAGGERTY AND I
HAVE BEEN A SMALL HOUSING
PROVIDER IN SEATTLE FOR OVER 50
YEARS NOW. I AM OPPOSED TO THE
$10 LATE FEE CAP BILL, BECAUSE
LATE FEES NEED TO BE HIGH ENOUG
TO PROVIDE AN INCENTIVE TO PAY
RENT ON TIME. LATE FEES ARE
TYPICALLY AROUND $35, PLUS A
DAILY CHARGE OF MAYBE $10 PER
DAY. THAT SAID, I CAN COUNT ON
ONE HAND THE NUMBER OF TIMES I
HAVE ACTUALLY COLLECTED LATE
FEES OVER MY 50 PLUS YEARS,
BECAUSE WHEN A RENTER HAS
TROUBLE THEY CONTACT ME AND WE
WORK TOGETHER ON A WIN-WIN PLAN
THAT TYPICALLY WAIVES THE LATE
FEES ALTOGETHER. THE PANDEMIC
LOCKDOWN AFFECTED A LOT OF OUR
RENTERS AND WE WORKED WITH EACH
ONE TO LOWER RENTS, WORK OUT
PAYMENT PLANS, AND WE ALL MADE
IT THROUGH THE PROCESS INTACT.
BACK IN THE 70s WHEN I GOT
STARTED IN HOUSING, KING COUNT
DID NOT HAVE LATE PENALTIES FOR
PROPERTY TAXES. AFTER THREE
YEARS THEY WOULD SEIZE THE
PROPERTY FOR NONPAYMENT. YOU
CAN GUESS WHAT HAPPENED. MOST
PEOPLE DID NOT PAY UNTIL THE
THIRD YEAR AND THEN JUST ENOUGH
TO KEEP THE COUNTY AT BAY. WHE
THE COUNTY STARTED CHARGING LAT
FEES, WE ALL CAUGHT UP. THIS
BILL IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED
AND THE 2018 STUDY ON EVICTIONS
IS BIASED. AND THE DATA IS NOT
VERIFIABLE. IT ALSO DEALS WITH
REAL PROBLEMS RENTERS FACE, BU
IT DOES NOT MENTION THE RISKS
AND CHALLENGES --
>> L&I, FOLLOWED BY JESSICA
DYSON, FOLLOWED BY LANA
LETTERMAN.
>> YES, HELLO, CAN YOU HEAR ME?
>> YES.
>> YES, HI, MY NAME IS ELENA
AND I AM A LANDLORD IN SEATTLE
I AM IN FAVOR OF LIMITING LATE
FEES TO $10 A MONTH, MY LATE
FEES, PERSONALLY AS ESTABLISHE
AT $35. AND IT IS TO BE
COLLECTED IF THE PAYMENT IS ONE
WEEK LATE. I KEEP IT LOW FOR TH
REASON THAT IT IS A SIMPLE
INCONVENIENCE OF THE PAYMENT IS
A LITTLE BIT LATE. I DON'T SEE
IT AS A PROFIT-MAKING MECHANISM
AND I WILL NOT HURT AT ALL IF
THE LATE FEE IS $10 INSTEAD OF
$35. IN MY VIEW, RENT IS TOO
HIGH ALREADY IN SEATTLE AND THE
ARE DISPLACING PEOPLE WHO USED
TO CALL SEATTLE HOME. I DON'T
WANT THE CITY TO TURN INTO THE
PLAYGROUND FOR THE RICH. LATE
FEES IMPACT PEOPLE ON FIXED
INCOME. SPECIFICALLY THOSE ON
SOCIAL SECURITY AND I DON'T WAN
TO HURT THE MOST VULNERABLE IN
OUR COMMUNITY. CITY COUNCIL HAS
TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE WHO NEED
THE MOST ASSISTANCE AND CAP LAT
FEES AT $10 PER MONTH. THANK
YOU.
>> JESSICA FOLLOWED BY LANA,
FOLLOWED BY EMILY MacARTHUR.
>> HELLO, JESSICA DYSON HERE AN
I AM BORN AND RAISED, ACTUALLY
HERE. RAISED BY A MOTHER WHO WA
A RENTER AND STRUGGLED TO KEEP
HOUSING. AS AN ADULT I WAS ABLE
TO BECOME A SMALL LANDLORD AND
I WAS COMMITTED TO PROVIDING
HOUSING AS AFFORDABLE AS
POSSIBLE. THAT INCLUDED TAKING
LOSSES FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS IN
ORDER TO KEEP RENTS AFFORDABLE.
I AM NO LONGER A LANDLORD,
BECAUSE OF THAT CHALLENGE.
HOWEVER, I DO BELIEVE IN
LIMITING EXCESSIVE LATE FEES.
THINK THAT IS CRITICAL, BUT TH
TERM, EXCESSIVE, IS KEY.
HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS IS
EXCESSIVE. $10 IS ALSO
EXCESSIVE, EXCESSIVELY LOW. WE
NEED TO HAVE REASONABLE LATE FE
LIMITS, SUCH AS THOSE IN OREGON
WHERE THEY LIMIT IT AT 5%. PER
A NORMAL BUSINESS POLICY. WE
NEED TO BE REASONABLE IN ORDER
TO KEEP SMALL LANDLORDS IN
BUSINESS, PROVIDING REASONABLE
RENTS FOR PEOPLE.
>> LANA.
>> CAN YOU HEAR ME?
>> YES.
>> YEAH, THIS IS LANA
LINDERMAN, I AM A RENTER IN
SEATTLE. I WAS A RENTER IN
BELLEVUE AND RENTON FOR A NUMBE
OF YEARS AND I AM CALLING TO
URGE THE COUNCIL TO VOTE IN
FAVOR OF CAPPING THE LATE FEES.
I THINK THAT THEY ARE REALLY
JUST A TAX ON THE POOR AND THEY
DIG PEOPLE FURTHER INTO THE
HOLE. IF YOU CAN'T PAY RENT,
THEN ADDING FEES, ESPECIALLY
HIGH FEES, THAT DOES NOT MAKE
YOU LIKELY TO PAY RENT. IT IS
LIKELY TO GET YOU EVICTED AND
OUT OF HOUSING AND ALSO I FEEL
LIKE IF YOU KEEP GETTING THOSE
FEES AND DELIVERY FEES AND YO
ARE JUST BASICALLY MAKING SURE
THAT PEOPLE WILL NEVER PAY. AN
I AM ALSO THINKING THAT
LANDLORDS DON'T HAVE AN EASY WA
TO COLLECT THIS, SO IT DRAGS ON
I THINK BY CAPPING THEM AT $10
PER MONTH, WE WILL ACHIEVE MUCH
MORE EQUITY IN THIS RENT
BURDENED TOWN. THANK YOU.
>> HANNAH ANDREAS, FOLLOWED BY
EMILY MacARTHUR, FOLLOWED BY
CASEY --
>> GOOD MORNING, COUNCILMEMBERS
I AM A RENTER. I LIVE IN
DISTRICT 12 AND I URGE YOU TO
VOTE YES. PLEASE CAP LATE FEES.
SEATTLE RENT IS ALREADY 24%
ABOVE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.
THIS INCLUDES SCREENING FEE,
SECURITY, DAMAGE, CLEANING. LAS
MONTH'S RENT PAID IN ADVANCE.
APPLICATION HOLDING FEE, AND
THE LIST COULD GO ON. WE NEED T
ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE
MOTIVATED TO START PAYING. AS
PEOPLE MENTIONED BEFORE, WITH
THESE FEES, THINGS CAN SNOWBALL
PAST THE RENTAL FEE. I'M ASKIN
YOU ONCE AGAIN TO PLEASE VOTE
YES AND CAP RENTAL LATE FEES.
THANK YOU.
>> EMILY MacARTHUR, FOLLOWED BY
KAREN TAYLOR, FOLLOWED BY CASE
BURTON.
>> HI, MY NAME IS EMILY
MacARTHUR. I AM A MEMBER OF TH
STAY HOUSED, STAY HEALTHY
COALITION AND THEY URGE
DEMOCRATS TO VOTE YES ON
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT'S $10 CAP
ON LATE FEES. WORKING-CLASS
PEOPLE ARE LIVING THROUGH
HISTORIC INFLATION. WAGES ARE
NOT GOING UP. TENS OF THOUSAND
OF LAYOFFS FROM INSANELY WEALTH
TECH CORPORATIONS, MANY OF WHOM
ARE BASED IN SEATTLE. THERE IS
A FORECAST OF A DEEP RECESSION
AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THE RULIN
CLASS AND THE WEALTHY WILL
ALWAYS MAKE WORKING-CLASS PEOPL
PAY AND SO THIS CAP ON LATE
FEES IS URGENTLY NEEDED IN THE
MOMENT. LATE FEES, AS OTHERS
HAVE SAID ARE A TAX ON THE POOR
AND WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN THIS
$10 PER MONTH CAP HAS BEEN IN
PLACE IN RENTON AND AUBURN AND
IS WORKING EFFECTIVELY. SOME
LANDLORDS HAVE SAID THAT THEY
NEED TO CHARGE LATE FEES -- WE
REJECT THIS. WE WOULD SUPPORT
LANDLORDS FIGHTING BACK AGAINST
POWERFUL BANKS TO STOP THOSE
LATE FEES AND SUPPORT THE BILL
OF RIGHTS FOR RENTERS AND WE
NEED TO ADD THIS ESSENTIAL
PIECE.
>> AARON TAYLOR, FOLLOWED BY
CASEY BURTON, FOLLOWED BY NIC
JONES.
>> HI, MY NAME IS KAREN. I AM
RENTER AND I JUST WANTED TO
SHARE SUPPORT OF CAPPING LATE
FEES. ONE TIME I WROTE OUT THE
PHYSICAL CHECK WRONGED BY A FE
CENTS AND IT BOUNCED IN MY BANK
ACCOUNT AND I EXPLAINED THIS T
THE LANDLORD AND HE STILL HIT M
WITH HUGE LATE FEES AND
NEGOTIATING THAT ONE ON ONE
WITH THE LANDLORD IS REALLY HAR
WITH YOUR PERSONAL
RELATIONSHIP, EVEN IF IT IS A
SMALL LANDLORD. ESPECIALLY IF I
IS A SMALL LANDLORD. BUT IF
THERE IS LEGISLATION ABOUT IT,
THEN THAT COULD COVER IT AND IT
WOULD BE HELPFUL. SO DEFINITEL
CAP LATE FEES. A MINOR
MISUNDERSTANDING CAN TURN INTO
REALLY BIG, AWFUL SITUATION.
>> AC BURTON, FOLLOWED BY --
YOU ARE MUTED. IF YOU HIT STAR
6 ON YOUR PHONE. THERE YOU GO.
>> THERE WE GO. THANK YOU SO
MUCH. I AM ASKING THE COUNCIL T
PLEASE PASS THIS -- IF YOU ARE
ALREADY BEHIND ON RENT, HOW ARE
YOU SUPPOSED TO CATCH UP IF
THERE IS A HUGE LATE FEE? YOU
LOSE HOURS AT WORK BECAUSE OF
SCHEDULING ERRORS, WHICH
HAPPENED TO A FRIEND OF MINE.
THINGS HAPPEN ALL THE TIME
BETTER OUT OF CONTROL AND AS W
SAW WITH THE PANDEMIC, WHEN
THINGS HAPPEN, YOU MIGHT BE
SOMEBODY WHO ALWAYS PAID YOUR
BILLS, BUT LIFE HAPPENS AND
SOMETIMES YOU PAY LATE. FURTHER
LET'S THINK ABOUT HOW HIGH THE
RENT IS IN SEATTLE. IF YOU ARE
ALREADY RENT BURDENED AND HAVE
HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS OF LATE FEE
ON TOP OF THAT, HOW ARE YOU EVE
SUPPOSED TO CATCH UP?
ADDITIONALLY, WHEN YOU ARE IN
SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE TO DEA
WITH LATE FEES, LET'S SAY YOU
MOVE OUT AND/OR DEPOSIT DOES
NOT COVER IT AND NOW YOU HAVE
LATE FEES STUCK ON YOUR CREDIT
REPORT. WE REALLY WANT TO CREAT
ANOTHER BARRIER FOR HOUSING FO
PEOPLE IN SEATTLE. THIS SHOULD
NOT BE ANOTHER WAY FOR WEALTH T
BE EXTRACTED FROM THE PEOPLE WH
LIVE IN SEATTLE. PLEASE PASS
THIS RENT CAP, OR PARDON ME,
LATE FEE CAP.
>> BRETT -- FOLLOWED BY NIC
JONES. FOLLOWED BY DR. GARCIA.
>> HELLO, I OWN A SMALL
PROPERTY MANAGEMENT FIRM.
PRIMARILY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES
AND INDIVIDUAL CONDOS FOR
PROPERTY OWNERS. ALMOST ALL OF
THE PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE
MORTGAGES AND VERY LITTLE
WIGGLE ROOM BETWEEN THE MORTGAG
AND THE RENTAL RATE. A CAP ON
LATE FEES OF $10 DOES NOT
INCENTIVIZE TENANTS TO PAY RENT
IN A TIMELY MANNER. WHEN RENTS
ARE LATE, MORTGAGES ARE LATE AN
THE BANKS DO NOT GIVE THEM A
GRACE PERIOD AND CHARGE THEM
WITH LATE FEES OVER $100 WHICH
AFFECTS THEIR CREDIT. THE
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THIS
CAP IS OWNERS PULLING
PROPERTIES FROM THE RENTAL
MARKET. I AM HEARING MANY
STORIES OF LATE FEES THAT ARE
HIGH, BUT A $10 CAP WOULD
EFFECTIVELY CREATE AN
ENVIRONMENT WHERE EVICTION
WOULD BE THE ONLY TOOL LEFT FOR
A LANDLORD TO INCENTIVIZEA
TENANT TO PAY RENT AT ALL.
DROPPING THEM TO $10 -- MAY AS
WELL BAN THEM ALTOGETHER. THANK
YOU.
>> NIC JONES FOLLOWED BY DR.
GARCIA FOLLOWED BY SONYA --
>> MY NAME IS NICK JONES. I A
A UPS DRIVER SPEAKING IN A
PERSONAL CAPACITY. I WANT TO
THANK COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT FOR
PUTTING FORWARD THIS LEGISLATIO
TO CAP LATE FEES AT $10. I
THINK A LOT OF SPEAKERS ALREADY
HAD ON WHY THIS IS SO IMPORTANT
ESPECIALLY IN THIS CLIMATE. IN
THE MIDDLE OF WHAT CONTINUES TO
BE A RENTAL AND HOUSING CRISIS.
HOW MANY YEARS HAS IT BEEN
SINCE THE THEN MAYOR ANNOUNCED
HOMELESS EMERGENCY THAT HAS
NEVER BEEN ADDRESSED? THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON THE COUNCIL
WE NEED TO HAVE SERIOUS ACTION
AROUND THIS. EARLIER A LANDLOR
SPOKE ABOUT HOW THEY PROVIDE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING. $50,000, I
BARELY MAKE THAT AS A FULL-TIME
DRIVER. I HAVE NEVER MADE THAT
IN THE MAJORITY OF MY ADULT
LIFE. YOU CAN SEE -- IF WE
DON'T TAKE SERIOUS ACTION. THAN
YOU.
>> DR. GARCIA FOLLOWED BY SONYA
--
>> HI, I AM SPEAKING ON BEHALF
OF THE IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE
COMMUNITY. A LOT OF IMMIGRANTS
ARE COMING TO SEATTLE FROM A
HUMANITARIAN CRISIS. AS EVERYON
KNOWS THERE IS A WAR SITUATION
IN AFRICA AND MANY ARE DISPLACE
AND COME TO SEATTLE. WE ARE
OVER 20,000 MEMBERS IN
WASHINGTON STATE AND PEOPLE ARE
STRUGGLING WITH HOUSING. OF
COURSE, HOUSING IS A CRISIS FO
AMERICAN CITIZENS, BUT
ESPECIALLY IMMIGRANT AND
REFUGEE COMMUNITY AND I WANT T
HIGHLIGHT THAT MANY ARE LIVING
IN SEATTLE WITH UNLIVABLE
CONDITIONS. A LOT OF LIVING
SPACES ARE RIDDLED WITH FUNGUS
AND DIFFERENT TOXIC SITUATIONS
THAT NEED TO BE ERADICATED AS
SOON AS POSSIBLE. SO PLEASE I
HOPE YOU CAN CAP LATE FEES.
PEOPLE ARE WORKING MORE THAN TW
JOBS AND THEY NEED AS MUCH
SUPPORT AS POSSIBLE.
>> SONYA IS THE LAST SPEAKER
SIGNED UP AND PRESENT. THREE
PEOPLE ARE SIGNED UP, BUT NOT
PRESENT. LC, EMILY, AND
WILLIAM. GO AHEAD, SONJA.
>> HI, I AM A LANDLORD --
PREVIOUSLY HAD 22 UNITS. I AM
CALLING IN SUPPORT OF CAPPING
THESE LATE FEES AT $10. SO MAN
TIMES WE HAD LATE RENT AND WE
ALWAYS WORKED IT OUT WITH
PEOPLE. WE DID NOT CHARGE FEES,
BECAUSE HONESTLY YOU CAN'T GET
BLOOD FROM A STONE. IF THEY
DON'T HAVE MONEY TO PAY, THEY
ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE MORE AND
MORE TO PAY EVERY SINGLE DAY AN
$10 IS STILL A LOT IN THESE
COMMUNITIES. YOU KNOW, THE
THREAT OF BEING EVICTED SHOULD
BE ENOUGH. PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO
BE EVICTED. OBVIOUSLY THEY WANT
TO PAY THEIR RENT. AS A SMALL
LANDLORD, EVICTING PEOPLE COSTS
MONEY. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOU
THE SMALL LANDLORD. WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT HUGE ORGANIZATION
THAT OWNS SO MANY PLACES. THEY
DICTATE ALL OF THE CONTRACT. YO
CAN'T NEGOTIATE ANYTHING AND I
CANNOT BELIEVE THESE PEOPLE WIT
20 HOUSES -- COME ON, YOU ARE
ALMOST A LARGE LANDLORD IF YOU
OWN PROPERTY IN THAT AREA OF
SEATTLE. SO PLEASE VOTE YES.
THANK YOU.
>> THAT IS THE FINAL SPEAKER WH
IS SIGNED UP AND PRESENT.
>> THANK YOU AND THANKS TO
EVERYBODY WHO SPOKE IN PUBLIC
COMMENT. WE WILL NOW BEGIN THE
FIRST AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS THE
LEGISLATION THAT SPEAKERS WERE
SPEAKING ABOUT IN PUBLIC
COMMENT. THAT IS TO CAP LATE
FEES AT $10 PER MONTH. I WILL
READ THE BILL INTO THE RECORD.
COUNCIL BILL 120530, AND
ORDINANCE RELATING TO
RESIDENTIAL TENANCY, LIMITING
THE AMOUNT OF FEES CHARGED FOR
LATE PAYMENT OF RENT AND ADDING
A NEW SECTION, 7.2 4.034 TWO
THE SEATTLE MUNICIPAL CODE. THE
ORDINANCE WOULD CAP LATE FEES
FOR OVERDUE RENT AT NO MORE THA
$10 PER MONTH. THE NEARBY
CITIES OF AUBURN AND BURIEN, AS
SPEAKERS POINTED OUT, HAVE
PASSED SUCH A LAW. EXTRA
CHARGES LIKE LATE FEES ARE ON
TOP OF THE OUT-OF-CONTROL RENT
THAT A MAJORITY OF OUR CITIES
RENTERS ARE STRUGGLING TO PAY.
WHILE MANY LANDLORDS DO NOT
CHARGE PUNISHING LATE FEES AND
WE HEARD FROM LANDLORDS TODAY
WHO DO NOT CHARGE LATE FEES.
THERE ARE MANY LANDLORDS WHO DO
TREAT LATE FEES AS YET ANOTHER
OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLOIT AND
GOUGE THEIR TENANTS. I WILL
READ A FEW EXAMPLES OF THESE
LATE FEES, BUT I WANTED TO
INVITE CITY COUNCIL CENTRAL
STAFF TO INTRODUCE THE
LEGISLATION, WHAT IT DOES, AND
HELP ANSWER COUNCILMEMBER
QUETIONS AND THEN WE WILL HEAR
FROM THE PANEL OF RENTERS AND
RENTAL RIGHTS ADVOCATES. I THIN
YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE AND
GIVING YOUR MORNING TO THIS. I
KNOW IT WILL TAKE A FEW HOURS,
SO I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE.
GO AHEAD.
>> GOOD MORNING, COUNCIL
MEMBERS. AS COUNCILMEMBER
SAWANT MENTIONED, I WILL GO
THROUGH A DESCRIPTION OF THE
COUNCIL BILL 120 -- PROVIDE
BACKGROUND ON LATE FEES AND
NOTICE FEES. GO THROUGH
POTENTIAL ISSUES FOR
CONSIDERATION. TALK THROUGH
POTENTIAL AMENDMENTS TO BE
DISCUSSED AND THEN TALK THROUGH
NEXT STEPS. SO, EXCUSE ME,
COUNCIL BILL 120530 DOES TWO
MAIN THINGS. ONE IS TO LIMIT
THE AMOUNT OF THE LATE FEED TO
$10 PER MONTH AND PROHIBIT ANY
OTHER FEES ASSOCIATED WITH LATE
PAYMENT OF RENT. CURRENTLY THE
REGULATORY STRUCTURE FOR THE
STATE OF WASHINGTON AND THE
CITY OF SEATTLE DOES NOT PLACE
A LIMITATION ON THE AMOUNT OF
FEES THAT CAN BE CHARGED IN
RELATION TO LATE PAYMENT OF REN
OR AS RELATED TO NOTICE FEES I
GENERAL. CURRENTLY EXISTING
REGULATIONS PROHIBIT A LANDLORD
FROM CHARGING ANY FEE FOR LATE
PAYMENT OF RENT UNTIL RENT IS
MORE THAN FIVE DAYS PAST DUE.
THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF
THOSE FEES NEED TO BE DESCRIBE
IN THE RENTAL AGREEMENT IN
ADDITION, ANY PAYMENT THAT IS
MADE BY A TENANT TOWARDS RENT
HAS TO BE APPLIED -- EXCUSE ME
ANY PAYMENT MADE BY A TENANT HA
TO BE APPLIED TO THE RENT BEFOR
THAT PAYMENT CAN BE APPLIED TO
LATE PAYMENTS, DAMAGES, LEGAL
COSTS, OR ANY OTHER SORTS OF
FEES. BUT AS I MENTIONED, NO
LIMITATION ON THE AMOUNT OF
THOSE FEES. AS COUNCILMEMBER
SAWANT MENTIONED, THERE WERE A
FEW BILLS AT THE STATE LEVEL
THAT WERE DISCUSSED RELATED TO
LATE FEES, BUT BOTH OF THOSE
ARE DEAD AT THIS POINT. SO
THERE IS NOT AN ISSUE OF
CONFLICTING PROVISIONS ABOUT
LATE FEES OR NOTICES. AS YOU
WILL HAVE SEEN IN THE MEMO THAT
WAS CIRCULATED ABOUT THIS BILL,
IT LAYS OUT A VARIETY OF
STRUCTURES AND LIMITATIONS ON
LATE FEES IN OTHER
JURISDICTIONS, BOTH WITHIN THE
STATE OF WASHINGTON AND
NATIONWIDE. SO AS WAS
PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, REDMOND
AND UNINCORPORATED KING COUNTY
HAVE LIMITS OF 1.5% OF MONTHLY
RENT. BURIEN AND AUBURN LIMIT
THEIR LATE FEES TO $10 PER
MONTH. IN BURIEN THERE ARE NO
FEES PERMITTED FOR NOTICES. IN
AUBURN THERE ARE NO FEES
PERMITTED FOR THOSE NOTICES,
UNLESS THEY ARE IN WRITING,
SIGNED AND AGREED TO IN THE
RENTAL AGREEMENT. I WON'T GO
THROUGH EACH OF THE EXAMPLES IN
THE MEMO, BUT THOSE ARE PROVIDE
TO GIVE A RANGE OF MAXIMUM LATE
FEES, AS WELL AS THE STRUCTURE
FOR LATE FEES. SOME
JURISDICTIONS PROVIDE A FLAT
AMOUNT THAT CAN BE IMPOSED.
SOME JURISDICTIONS APPLY A
PERCENTAGE OF THE RENT THAT CAN
BE DUE, BUT THOSE RANGE BASED O
STATE AND I DID NOT GET INTO
LOCAL JURISDICTIONS, BECAUSE
MANY OF THOSE ARE RELATED TO TH
STATE JURISDICTIONS. EXCUSE ME,
THE LAWS AT THE STATE
JURISDICTIONS. SO, EXCUSE ME.
CAN PAUSE FOR QUESTIONS OR MOVE
INTO POTENTIAL ISSUES FOR THE
COUNCIL'S CONSIDERATION.
>> I DON'T SEE ANY
COUNCILMEMBERS IMMEDIATELY
JUMPING, SO GO AHEAD.
>> OKAY, GREAT. THERE ARE A
COUPLE OF ISSUES. FIRST IS THE
IMPACT OF THE FEES THEMSELVES.
WITHOUT REGULATORY LIMITATION,
A LANDLORD HAS THE DISCRETION T
SET A FEE AT ANY AMOUNT THEY
LIKE. THIS IS FOR LATE PAYMENT
OF RENT, AS WELL AS THINGS LIKE
NOTICE PREPARATION FEES. AS
MENTIONED IN THE MEMO, THERE AR
FEES THAT CAN ACCRUE TO
LANDLORDS AS RESULT OF LATE
PAYMENT OF RENT OR ISSUING
NOTICES, BUT IT IS UNCLEAR TO
WHAT EXTENT THE ACTUAL COSTS OF
THOSE FEES ARE REFLECTED IN THE
LATE FEES CHARGED TO A TENANT.
ADDITIONALLY, FEES CAN POSE A
BURDEN ON TENANTS. ESPECIALLY
LOW INCOME TENANTS OR TENANTS O
A FIXED INCOME AND CAN ADD
FINANCIAL STRESS WHEN THEY ARE
UNABLE TO PAY THAT DEBT AND DEB
ACCRUES. SO, FOR THOSE TENANTS
THAT ARE STRUGGLING WITH RENT,
LATE FEES CAN ADD ADDITIONAL
DEBT THAT CAN IMPACT CREDIT
SCORES OR IMPACT THEIR ABILITY
TO HAVE HOUSING STABILITY. THE
OTHER ISSUE THAT I WANTED TO
FLAG IS REFLECTED IN THE SMALL
LANDLORD STAKEHOLDER REPORT THA
CAME OUT IN DECEMBER OF LAST
YEAR, 2022, THAT REFLECTED THE
CONCERNS OF SMALL LANDLORDS
ABOUT THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMEN
IN GENERAL. SO THERE ARE NOT
SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE
SMALL LANDLORD REPORT ABOUT
LATE FEES OR NOTICE FEES,
SPECIFICALLY, BUT THERE WERE
CONCERNS EXPRESSED ABOUT THE
NATURE OF THE REGULATORY
ENVIRONMENT, GIVEN HOW MANY
LAWS HAVE PASSED IN THE PAST
SEVEN YEARS, BOTH AT THE STATE
AND CITY LEVEL AND HOW THAT HA
SOME IMPACT ON SMALL LANDLORDS.
THERE ARE A FEW OPTIONS LAID OU
IN THE MEMO, THAT ARE AVAILABL
TO COUNCILMEMBERS, IF THE
CURRENT LANGUAGE OF THE BILL
LIMITING THE LATE FEES TO $10
AND PROHIBITING OTHER FEES IN
RELATION TO NOTICES RELATED TO
LATE PAYMENTS -- IF THERE ARE
DESIRES TO MAKE THAT MORE
FLEXIBLE OR TO CHANGE THE
AMOUNT. FOR THE EXAMPLES THAT
ARE LAID OUT EARLIER IN THE
MEMO THAT REFLECT HOW OTHER
STATES TO REGULATE THEIR LATE
FEES AND NOTICE FEES.
COUNCILMEMBERS CAN CONSIDER
WHETHER $10 IS THE APPROPRIATE
AMOUNT. IF THERE IS A PERCENTAG
ELEMENT THAT CAN BE APPLIED. S
WHAT IS NORMALLY CHARGE FOR
MONTHLY RENT. OR APPLIED TO REN
THAT IS PAST DUE. IN ADDITION,
IN TERMS OF THE PROHIBITION ON
LATE FEE NOTICE CHARGES,
COUNCILMEMBERS MAY WANT TO
CONSIDER WHETHER THERE IS A
REQUIREMENT THAT FEES TO MATCH
THE COST OF THE LANDLORD OR TO
SET A CAP ON FEES, RATHER THAN
BAN FEES ALTOGETHER. I DID WANT
TO KNOW QUICKLY THAT THE WAY
THE LEGISLATION IS SET UP, IT I
SPECIFICALLY LIMITING BOTH THE
AMOUNT OF THE LATE FEES AND
FEES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH
LATE PAYMENT OF RENT. THAT WOUL
MEAN THAT THE NOTICES THAT ARE
ASSOCIATED SPECIFICALLY WITH
LATE PAYMENT OF RENT, NOT
NECESSARILY ALL NOTICE FEES. I
WILL DISCUSS THAT MORE WHEN I
GET TO THE POTENTIAL AMENDMENT
DAYS, BUT I WANTED TO NOTE THA
THE PROHIBITION ON THOSE FEES I
SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO RENT AS
CURRENTLY DRAFTED IN THIS
LEGISLATION. THE LAST ITEM I
WANTED TO NOTE IN TERMS OF
ISSUES ARE ABOUT IMPLEMENTATION
THE FULL COST OF OUTREACH AND
ENFORCEMENT BY THE SALE
DEPARTMENT OF CONSTRUCTION AND
INSPECTIONS ARE NOT FULLY
REFLECTED HERE AND SOME OF THAT
IS BECAUSE SDCI AND
SPECIFICALLY THE GROUP WHO WOUL
ENFORCE AND RESPOND TO CONCERNS
ABOUT THE LEGISLATION ARE NOT
ENTIRELY CLEAR ABOUT HOW MUCH
MORE ADDING THIS PIECE OF
LEGISLATION WOULD IMPACT THEM.
AT THIS POINT THEY ARE DEALING
WITH A LOT OF INCREASE IN CALL
VOLUMES AND COMPLEXITY OF CASES
AND DEALING WITH A LOT OF
LANDLORD-TENANT POLICY THAT HAS
GONE INTO EFFECT OVER THE PAST
COUPLE OF YEARS, IN ADDITION TO
RECEIVING CALLS AND PROVIDING
GUIDANCE ABOUT EVICTIONS NOW
THAT THE EVICTION MORATORIUM HA
BEEN LIFTED. SO THERE ARE
CONCERNS ABOUT SDCI'S ABILITY
TO PROVIDE TIMELY OUTREACH AND
ENFORCEMENT, BOTH TO LANDLORDS
AND TENANTS. I JUST WANTED TO
FLAG THAT IS SOMETHING MAY BE O
INTEREST TO COUNCILMEMBERS AS
BUDGET SEASON APPROACHES AT THE
END OF THIS YEAR. I CAN PAUSE
THERE BEFORE I GET TO PROPOSED
AMENDMENTS, IF ANYBODY HAS ANY
QUESTIONS.
>> ANY QUESTIONS,
COUNCILMEMBERS?
>> I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION,
MADAM CHAIR.
>> GO AHEAD.
>> THANK YOU. HEY, ASHA, I WAS
LOOKING AT YOUR SUMMARY AND
FISCAL NOTE. I HAVE MORE
DETAILED QUESTIONS LATER, BUT
MAY BE THE ONLY ONE WHO DOES NO
KNOW THIS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHA
POTA STANDS FOR.
>> APOLOGIES. IF I REMEMBER
CORRECTLY IT IS PROPERTY OWNER
TENANT ASSISTANCE, BUT I WILL
CONFIRM THAT.
>> OKAY, AND THOSE ARE THE FOLK
WHEN I WAS READING YOUR SUMMAR
AND FISCAL NOTE THAT ARE AT AND
BEYOND CAPACITY SINCE WE LIFTED
THE MORATORIUM OF FIELDING AND
RESPONDING THROUGH SDCI OF WHA
RENTERS ARE DEALING WITH. OKAY,
THANK YOU.
>> OKAY, IF THERE ARE NO
QUESTIONS I CAN MOVE INTO
POTENTIAL AMENDMENTS. SO AS YOU
WILL SEE ON THE AGENDA, THERE
ARE NOT ANY AMENDMENTS
OFFICIALLY PROPOSED FOR A VOTE
TODAY. COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT
INDICATED AN INTENT TO BRING
FORWARD SEVERAL AMENDMENTS TO
THIS BILL. THE FIRST IS A
MENTIONED EARLIER, THE CURRENT
VERSION ONLY LIMITS FEES IN
ASSOCIATION WITH LATE PAYMENT O
RENT, SO THE AMENDMENT THAT
WOULD BE CONSIDERED IS TO
EXPAND THE PROHIBITION ON FEES
TO ANY NOTICE ISSUED TO ATTEND.
SO THE AMENDMENT LANGUAGE WOULD
BE SOMETHING LIKE A LANDLORD MA
NOT CHARGE A FEE ASSOCIATED
WITH THE ISSUANCE OF A NOTICE T
A TENANT, INCLUDING BUT NOT
LIMITED TO A FEE FOR PREPARING
AND DELIVERING A NOTICE
REGARDING LATE PAYMENT OF RENT,
AND NOTICE TO VACATE OR A NOTIC
OF NONCOMPLIANCE. EFFECTIVELY
THIS WOULD BE IN ANY TYPE OF
NOTICE PREPARATION FEES THAT AR
CURRENTLY IN A RENTAL AGREEMEN
OR WOULD BE IN FUTURE RENTAL
AGREEMENTS. FROM A PROCESS
PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS A CHANGE
THAT WOULD REQUIRE A TITLE
CHANGE, BECAUSE IT DOES BROADEN
THE SCOPE OF WHAT IS
CONTEMPLATED IN COUNCIL BILL
120530, SO THIS MAY BE
INCORPORATED INTO NEW
LEGISLATION THAT WILL BE
INTRODUCED FOR CONSIDERATION AN
COMMITTEE ON APRIL 7. THE SECON
AMENDMENT THAT COULD
POTENTIALLY MOVE FORWARD IS TO
CLARIFY LANGUAGE THAT WOULD BE
ON ANY NOTICE ISSUED TO TENANTS
ABOUT THE REMEDIES. YOU NOTICE
THAT SDCI WOULD PREPARE TO
ENSURE TENANTS ARE AWARE OF THE
REGULATIONS AND REMEDIES
AVAILABLE TO THEM ASSOCIATED
WITH LATE PAYMENT OF RENT AND
FEES. WE ARE WORKING TO MAKE
SURE THAT IS CLEAR TO TENANTS
AND LANDLORDS ABOUT WHAT THE
REGULATIONS ARE AND WHAT THE
REMEDIES ARE, SO THE PLAN IS TO
HAVE THAT LANGUAGE READY FOR TH
COMMITTEE CONSIDERATION IN THE
NEXT ITERATION OF THE BILL. AS
COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT MENTIONED
THIS BILL OR NEW LEGISLATION
WITH A TITLE THAT INCORPORATES
THE FIRST AMENDMENT I JUST
DISCUSSED, WILL BE UP AGAIN
BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE ON APRIL
AND THEORETICALLY MOVING
FORWARD TO A FULL COUNCIL VOTE.
BUT IN THE INTERIM BETWEEN
TODAY AND APRIL 7, WE WILL BE
WORKING TOWARDS PUTTING
TOGETHER A BILL EITHER WITH A
NEW TITLE, AND THAT CREATES THE
CORRECT NOTICE LANGUAGE TO GO
IN THE ORDINANCE. THAT IS ALL I
HAVE FOR YOU AT THIS MOMENT. I
AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GOING
OVER THE MEMO YOU WROTE, ASHA,
AND GIVING US THE DETAILS. ALSO
ON ASHA'S LAST PART OF THE
PRESENTATION WHERE SHE CLARIFIE
FOR ALL OF THE RENTERS WHO ARE
LISTENING THAT THE AMENDMENTS
ARE NOT GOING TO WEAKEN THE
LEGISLATION. IT IS ACTUALLY
STRENGTHENING, BECAUSE IT IS
CLARIFYING SOME IMPORTANT
LANGUAGE. FOR EXAMPLE, WE WANT
ALL OF THE NOTICES THAT
LANDLORDS WILL CHARGE EXORBITAN
FEES FOR TO BE ELIMINATED,
BECAUSE THAT IS MAYBE OUTRAGEOU
TO CHARGE FOR A PIECE OF PAPER
YOU ARE DELIVERING, WHERE THE
PIECE OF PAPER CONTAINS PAYMENT
PENALTIES. SO THAT WAS AN
INADVERTENT THING THAT WE
MISSED, SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE ADDRESS THAT AND AS
ASHA CLARIFIED, JUST FOR THE
LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE CITY,
IT WILL MEAN NEW LEGISLATION T
REPLACE THIS ONE. SUBSTANTIVELY
THE LEGISLATION WILL BE THE
SAME. IT WILL ONLY BE STRONGER.
COUNCILMEMBERS, IF YOU HAVE
QUESTIONS FOR ASHA, I AM
LOOKING AT THE SCREEN TO SEE I
ANY ZOOM HANDS GO UP. OH YES,
SORRY, GO AHEAD.
>> THAT'S OKAY. I AM HAPPY TO
SEE YOU AT THE COMMITTEE TABLE.
I THINK WE SHOULD START MOVING
THAT DIRECTION.
>> I KNOW, IT'S BEEN A WHILE.
>> I'M SORRY IF YOU ALREADY
COVERED THIS, BUT COULD YOU JUS
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT -- I'M
SORRY, I AM GETTING OVER A COLD
COULD YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT HOW YOU DECIDED ON $10?
APPRECIATE YOU OFFERING EXAMPLE
FROM OTHER MUNICIPALITIES SO
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW YOU ENDE
UP ON A DOLLAR AMOUNT VERSUS A
PERCENTAGE AND HOW YOU ENDED U
ON THE $10 AMOUNT?
>> YES, I AM HAPPY TO TALK ABOU
IT AND ALSO KATE CAN SPEAK TO
IT. I WAS GOING TO ASK THAT
QUESTION MYSELF, IN TERMS OF
WHAT IS THE ADVOCACY REASON FOR
IT. I WILL TELL YOU, FROM MY
OFFICE, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE A LON
TRACK RECORD OF FIGHTING FOR AN
WINNING RENTERS RIGHTS AND IT
WAS CLEAR THAT WE NEED TO GO
FOR THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE LAW
WE CAN HAVE FOR CAPPING LATE
FEES ON OVERDUE RENT AND IT WA
ACTUALLY QUITE GRATIFYING TO
SEE THE CITY LIKE AUBURN AND
BURIEN, WHICH DON'T USUALLY MAK
THE NEWS FOR PROGRESSIVE
LEGISLATION, IT IS IMPORTANT
THAT THEY HAVE DONE THIS AND
THIS IS THE STRONGEST EXAMPLE W
KNOW. WE WANT TO FOLLOW THE
STRONGEST EXAMPLE, NOT THE LAST
STRONG OR WEAK EXAMPLES. IF YOU
LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, IF YOU HEA
ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE PAID
PERCENTAGES OF RENT, IT ACTUALL
ENDS UP ADDING UP TO FAR MORE
THAN $10 AND $10 SEEMS LIKE A
VERY REASONABLE AMOUNT, BUT I
INVITE ED AND KATE TO WEIGH IN
ON THIS.
>> I THINK THAT IS A GOOD
QUESTION. I HOPE I AM COMING
THROUGH HERE. ONE THING I WANT
TO NOTE IS THAT $10 IS AN
INCREASE FROM A STATUS QUO.
THIS IS MORE OF A LANDLORD
BILLED IN A TENANT BILL. FOR TH
LAST 10 YEARS THERE HAVE BEEN N
LATE FEES IN SEATTLE AT ALL.
DESPITE THAT WE ARE SEEING
LANDLORDS TOWARDS THEM, BUT $10
IS AN INCREASE OVER THE STATUS
QUO AND ULTIMATELY THAT IS WHA
THIS ORDINANCE IS DOING. WHAT
SHOULD BE THE POLICY GOING
FORWARD? WE WORKED ON THE
BURIEN AND AUBURN ORDINANCE FOR
$10. HAVE TO SAY WHEN WE DID
THE AUBURN ORDINANCE AND $10 WA
PROPOSED IN THAT LEGISLATION,
THAT WAS NOT A CONTROVERSIAL
ASK AT ALL FROM THE AUBURN CITY
COUNCIL. THERE WAS ALMOST NO
PUSHBACK WHATSOEVER. NUMBER TWO
THERE HAS SORT OF BEEN A
GENERAL, NATIONAL RECONCILIATIO
WITH WHAT THE ISSUES ARE WITH
LATE FEES IN GENERAL. RIGHT NOW
AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE
CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTION
BUREAU IS RE-EXAMINING
REGULATION Z, WHICH LOOKS AT
LATE FEES AND CREDIT CARDS.
THEIR PROPOSAL IS TO LIMIT LATE
FEES ON CREDIT CARDS TO EIGHT
DOLLARS AND THAT WOULD GO INTO
EFFECT IN APRIL. SO $10 I THINK
IS A REASONABLE NUMBER. WE HAVE
PRESIDENT. MORE IMPORTANTLY WE
HAVE HAD NO LATE FEES FOR THE
LAST THREE YEARS IN SEATTLE AND
AS FAR AS I CAN TELL THIS RENTA
MARKET HAS NOT IMPLODED. THE
LAST WE KNOW FROM THE SDCI OR
DEPARTMENT OF CONSTRUCTION AND
INSPECTIONS DATA, WHILE THERE
HAS BEEN A CHANGE IN
REGISTRATION FROM SMALLER UNITS
TO LARGER UNITS THAT HAS OVERAL
AFFECTED THE NUMBER OF
REGISTERED UNITS, THE NUMBER O
ACTUAL UNITS IS THE SAME
OVERALL. DESPITE THE FACT THERE
IS NO LATE FEES, WE HAVE NOT
SEEN A DRAMATIC IMPACT ON THE
OTHER THING, TOO, FOR A HOST OF
REASONS, DESPITE THE FACT THER
ARE NO LATE FEES, EVICTIONS FOR
NONPAYMENT HAVE BEEN DOWN FOR
THE LAST FEW YEARS. TENANTS AR
PAYING THEIR RENT. WE HAVE NOT
SEEN A REAL CHANGE IN THAT
BEHAVIOR. I THINK SOMETIMES THE
GOOD FAITH A LOT OF TENANTS ARE
EXERCISING IS UNDEREMPHASIZED.
I DON'T THINK LATE FEES
INCENTIVIZE ON-TIME PAYMENT. IT
IS A TAX ON THE POOR AS I THINK
A LOT OF THE SPEAKERS ALREADY
SAID. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO
EMPHASIZE IS ANOTHER POINT IN
GENERAL AND THEN I WILL STOP
TALKING ON THIS. I THINK THE
BIG ISSUE WITH COST OVERALL IS
THAT LATE FEES OR SOMETHING I
THINK THAT OUR PRETTY WELL
KNOWN TO IMPACT BLACK
COMMUNITIES, LATINO COMMUNITIES
LOWER INCOME COMMUNITIES. THER
WAS A STORY SOME YEARS AGO THAT
LOOKED AT WHAT TO THOSE RENT
ROLLS PROVIDE IN TERMS OF THE
OVERALL LANDLORD COST. IN A
HIGH POVERTY AREA WITH 50 TO 60
OF RENTERS BELOW THE FEDERAL
POVERTY LINE, LANDLORDS COVER
ABOUT ONE QUARTER OF THE OVERAL
HOUSING VALUE IN A YEAR. SO
THAT THE WHOLE RENTAL BUILDING
IS PAID OFF AND BASICALLY FOUR
YEARS. IN HIGHER INCOME
NEIGHBORHOODS THEY ONLY GET
ABOUT 10%, SO IT TAKES 10 YEARS
TO PAY OFF IN A WEALTHIER AREA
FOR THE LANDLORD. THE POINT IS
THAT THESE LATE FEES AND
PARTICULARLY LOW INCOME
COMMUNITIES PAY MORE IN GENERAL
OF THEIR OVERALL INCOME TO RENT
THEY PAY HIGHER LATE FEES AND
AGAIN I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THIS
IS ACTUALLY AN INCREASE ON THE
STATUS QUO. SO $10 IS A VERY
LARGE INCREASE OVER ZERO.
>> THANK YOU, ED, AND THANK YO
FOR SHARING HOW $10 PER MONTH
WAS NOT CONTROVERSIAL. YOU
MENTIONED IN THE AUBURN AND
BURIEN CASES. KATE, DO YOU WAN
TO ADD TO IT?
>> I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT
THAT WE ALREADY KNOW THERE IS
HUGE POWER IMBALANCE BETWEEN
RENTERS AND LANDLORDS AND THER
IS NOT, LIKE, AN ALTERNATIVE.
IF A RENTER MAKES A REPAIR
REQUEST AND THE LANDLORD DOES
NOT RESPOND IN THE REQUIRED
TIME, THE RENTER CAN'T FIND TH
LANDLORD, BUT THE LANDLORD IS
ESSENTIALLY ABLE TO FIND TH
RENTER WHENEVER THEY WANT WITH
THESE DELIVERY FEES. THE $10 A
POINTED OUT IS JUST KIND OF A
NUMBER TO SATISFY THEM, BUT
THEY ARE REALLY THE ONES WITH
ALL OF THE POWER AND THESE HIGH
FEES ARE EXTREMELY PUNITIVE AN
SO HARD TO COME BACK FROM.
>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU BOTH FO
THOSE RESPONSES. COUNCILMEMBER
MORALES, DO YOU HAVE ANY
FOLLOW-UP ON THAT?
>> NO, THAT WAS GREAT. THANK YO
VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU. OTHER COUNCIL
MEMBERS. COUNCILMEMBER MORALES
GO AHEAD.
>> I'M SORRY, I CAN'T GET TO TH
LITTLE ELECTRONIC RAISED HAND
QUICK ENOUGH. I HOPE YOU CAN SE
ME.
>> YES, WE CAN SEE YOU.
>>'S WALL OF THE TALK ABOUT TH
RENTER STUFF AND LANDLORD, I GE
ALL OF THAT. I KNOW THAT WE HAD
HOUSE BILL 1124, I BELIEVE,
WHICH WOULD HAVE CAPPED LATE
FEES I THINK AT $75. SO I WANT
TO GO BACK TO, YES, WE KNOW WHA
BURIEN AND AUBURN DID AT $10 PE
MONTH. I DON'T KNOW THAT I
AGREE WITH THE STATUS QUO THAT
IT IS ACTUALLY MORE, BUT THAT I
DIFFERENT. WE CAN AGREE TO
DISAGREE. ALSO, HOW DO WE SQUAR
THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT REDMOND AN
UNINCORPORATED KING COUNTY,
IMPOSING A 1.5 PERCENTAGE AND
THAT IS MORE PROGRESSIVE IN THA
IF YOU PAY MORE RENT AND YOU AR
LATE, THEN YOU PAY MORE WHEN YO
ARE LATE WITH YOUR RENT AND IF
YOU MAKE LESS AND PAY LESS ON
YOUR RENT AND YOU ARE LATE
PAYING ON YOUR RENT, THEN YOU
PAY LESS. SO OBVIOUSLY IT IS
MORE PROGRESSIVE IN THE SENSE
OF DOLLARS AND CENTS, NOT
POLITICALLY. HOW DO WE SQUARE
THAT, COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT, OR
WHOEVER WOULD BE ANSWERING THIS
WHY IS A $10 FLAT FEE MORE
ADVANTAGEOUS OR, IF YOU WILL,
BETTER THAN JUST LOOKING AT A
PERCENTAGE WHETHER IT IS 1% OR
2% OR WHATEVER? WHAT IS THE
POLICY OR WHAT IS THE LEGAL AND
POLICY IMPLICATIONS OF THAT?
>> WELL, I WILL RESPOND BECAUSE
THERE IS A LOT -- IT IS
ACTUALLY NOT PROGRESSIVE TO HAV
A PERCENTAGE AND I WILL HAVE
TED AND EDMUND AND KATE ALSO IF
THEY WANT TO RESPOND AND I KNOW
VIOLET HAS A LOT TO SHARE ALSO.
ONE, THE REASON THE PERCENTAGE
IS NOT MORE PROGRESSIVE THAN $1
FLAT AS THE CAP. THIS LAW IS
NOT REQUIRING LANDLORDS TO
CHARGE $10, JUST TO BE CLEAR.
IT IS SAYING YOU CAN'T CHARGE
MORE THAN $10 PER MONTH. THE
REASON THAT IS THE MOST
PROGRESSIVE POLICY AND NOT A
PERCENTAGE, ONE REASON WHY IS
BECAUSE RENT IS SO HIGH THAT
EVEN IF YOU ARE A WORKING CLAS
RENTER, YOU ARE PROBABLY PAYING
A LOT OUT OF YOUR PAYCHECK.
IMAGINE SOMEBODY PAYING $2000.
1% WOULD BE $20, WHICH IS TWIC
THE $10 CAP WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT. SO IT IS NOT
PROGRESSIVE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE
NUMBERS OF THE RENT THAT PEOPLE
ARE PAYING, IT DOES NOT WORK
OUT. THE OTHER REASON IT IS NOT
AGGRESSIVE, I AM GLAD YOU ARE
ASKING BECAUSE IT HELPS CLARIFY
THIS. BECAUSE WORKING CLASS
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WITH
LOWER INCOMES, WORKING CLASS AN
THE POOR, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO
ARE GOING TO BE MUCH MORE LIKEL
TO BE ON THE MARGINS. LIVING
LITERALLY PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK,
SO THEY ARE THE ONES OF THEY HA
ONE SMALL EXTRA EXPENSE IN A
MONTH, IF THEIR CHILD FELL SICK
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND THEY
HAD TO PAY A DOCTORS BILL, THEN
THEY ARE THE ONES GOING TO HAVE
DIFFICULTY PAYING RENT ON TIME.
WHICH IS THE OVERWHELMING
MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO END UP
NOT PAYING RENT ON TIME. IT IS
BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL DISTRESS.
SO PEOPLE WHO HAVE HIGHER
INCOMES ARE ALSO MORE LIKELY T
HAVE A LARGER CUSHION FROM WHIC
TO RECOVER IF THEY HAD FINANCIA
DISTRESS. SO FOR BOTH OF THOSE
REASONS, CAPPING IT AT $10 IS
THE MOST PROGRESSIVE POLICY.
AND IF YOU WANTED TO ADD
SOMETHING.
>> YEAH, COUNCILMEMBER. I
APPRECIATE YOUR QUESTION A LOT.
I THINK THAT IS A GOOD ONE.
HAVING LOOKED AT HOW THE
DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS WORK IN
PRACTICE, WHEN YOU HAVE $10 AS
A FLAT FEE, VERSUS A PERCENTAGE
THERE ARE A LOT OF MISLEADING
AND DECEPTIVE PRACTICES THAT
ARE HAPPENING. ONE IS THAT RENT
IS A BROAD DEFINITION UNDER
STATE LAW, INCLUDING UNDER
THOSE ORDINANCES. RENT IS NOT
JUST A FEE LABELED RENT IN YOUR
LEASE. IT CAN INCLUDE PET
CHARGES AND OTHER THINGS COVERE
ON TOP OF THAT. THE SAME WAY IF
YOU GO TO AN AIRBNB RENTAL YOU
WILL SEE AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR
$100 AND YOU GO TO BOOK IT AND
IT IS $250 BECAUSE OF ADDED
FEES. THAT IS WHAT WE SEE IN
LEASES NOW, A LOT OF ADDED
PERCENTAGE CHARGES. WHEN YOU
SIGN THE LEASE YOU MIGHT SAY M
LATE FEE IS ONLY 1.5% OF MY
THOUSAND DOLLAR RENT, BUT YOU
DON'T REALIZE THERE ARE OTHER
CHARGES. WASHING MACHINE
CHARGES, SEWERAGE CHARGES,
UTILITIES, WHICH TECHNICALLY AR
RENT UNDER STATE LAW. THAT DOE
GET FACTORED IN, LEADING TO A
VARIABLE RENT FEE THAT CAN BE
HARD FOR RENTERS, EVEN
SOPHISTICATED ONES, TO CALCULAT
WHAT THEIR FEE IS ANY MONTH. A
A RESULT YOU KIND OF HAVE A
MOVING LATE FEE AND I WANT TO
EMPHASIZE THAT I THINK THIS IS
SOMETHING AS I BROUGHT UP, THE
CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTION
BUREAU IS AWARE OF IN THE SENSE
OF CREDIT CARD REGULATIONS,
WHERE THEY ARE NOT SAYING 1.5%
OF THE OVERALL DEBT IS THE
AMOUNT THE FEE SHOULD BE. IT IS
EIGHT DOLLARS. I THINK THEY
REALIZE THERE IS WISDOM GIVING
THAT FLAT FEE, BECAUSE THE
AVERAGE CONSUMER WILL STRUGGLE
KNOWING HOW TO CALCULATE THAT
ANY GIVEN MONTH AND I SPEND A
LOT MORE TIME DOING MATH WITH A
LAW DEGREE THAN EVER THOUGHT I
WOULD BECAUSE OF THAT STUFF.
>> THANK YOU, THAT WAS VERY
HELPFUL.
>> CAN I HAVE A FOLLOW-UP, MADA
CHAIR?
>> GO AHEAD.
>> IF I AM UNDERSTANDING, I KNO
YOU HAVE YOUR AMENDMENT ABOUT,
AS YOU SAID, PEOPLE SHOULD NOT
BE CHARGED A FEE FOR BEING
DELIVERED A DOCUMENT THAT THEY
ARE LATE. I GET THAT. THAT WOUL
PROBABLY BE CATEGORIZED. SO
JUST SO I UNDERSTAND, WE ARE
SAYING THAT A FLAT FEE PROTECTS
US AGAINST THIS MYRIAD OF JUNK
FEES, FRANKLY. SO YOU'RE NOT
SITTING AND HAVING TO
DISTINGUISH WHAT IS A REAL FEE
AND WHAT IS NOT THAT IS RELATE
TO SOMEONE PAYING THEIR RENT
LATE? SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO
THROUGH AND HAVE A LAUNDRY LIST
OF THESE ARE ALL THE THINGS
THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO
ESSENTIALLY GET RID OF. I HEARD
THE TERM, JUNK FEES. SO WHAT
ACTUALLY GOES TO THE HEART OF
LANDLORD WHO HAS TO ABSORB COST
IF A RENTER IS LATE IN THEIR
FEE? LIKE YOU WERE SAYING IT
COULD BE ALL KINDS OF CRAZY
THINGS, BUT THERE COULD BE
LEGITIMATE ONES AS WELL AND THI
LEGISLATION IS SAYING $10 SHOUL
COVER THAT. SO WE ARE NOT GOIN
BACK AND FORTH AND ARGUING IN
PERPETUITY WHAT IS A REAL FEE
FOR THE LANDLORD HAVING TO
ABSORB WHEN THE RENTER IS LATE
IN THEIR FEE. I APOLOGIZE IF
THAT IS A BIT CIRCULAR, BUT THA
IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO GET AT
HERE.
>> I CAN RESPOND, COUNCILMEMBER
IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION,
YOU ARE WONDERING HOW DOES $10
COMPARED TO THE AMOUNT THE
LANDLORD SUSTAINS DUE TO LOSS
FROM LATE PAYMENT?
>> RIGHT, SO IF WE GOT INTO A
BACK-AND-FORTH SOME LANDLORDS,
LIKE YOU SAID, YOU LISTED
WHATEVER, THERE WOULD BE A LIST
AND WE WOULD SIT AND HAVE AN
ARGUMENT ON EVERYTHING ON THE
LIST. WHETHER -- RATHER IF WE
SAY IT IS A FLAT $10, EVERYONE
KNOWS WHAT THE RULES ARE. IT I
$10 AND WHATEVER YOU WANT TO
INCLUDE IN THAT $10, THAT IS
WHAT IS BEING TAKEN FROM YOU,
BECAUSE THE RENTER WAS LATE
PAYING THEIR RENT. YOU HAVE NOW
ABSORBED A $10 COST, SO YOU GE
$10 TO MAKE YOU WHOLE AGAIN.
THAT IS WHAT I AM GETTING AT, I
THAT MAKES SENSE.
>> I APPRECIATE THE QUESTION.
HAVE A DIFFERENT ASSUMPTION
WHICH I THINK UNDERLIES THIS. I
DON'T THINK THEY COMPENSATE FOR
LOSS. I THINK THEY'RE PROFIT FO
A LANDLORD. I DON'T THINK A
LANDLORD OR DEVELOPER OR
PROPERTY MANAGEMENT OR SMALLTIM
LANDLORD SITS DOWN AND SAYS
OKAY, LET'S THINK ABOUT WHAT IS
COMING ON NEXT YEAR. HERE IS MY
MORTGAGE PAYMENT. HERE ARE MY
MAINTENANCE COSTS. I THINK WHEN
THEY LOOK AT THE EXPENDITURES
AND REVENUE, THEY ARE LOOKING A
RENT. I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD
SAY, WE EXPECT 30% OF OUR
RENTERS TO BE LATE AND ALL OF
THAT. YOU ARE PROBABLY
PREDICTING THAT IN THE RENT YOU
ARE CHARGING. PROBABLY CAPPED
FOR VOLATILITY. MY GUESS IS
THAT WHAT LANDLORDS ARE ALREADY
DOING, THEY ARE ALREADY
FCTORING IN LATE PAYMENT WHEN
THEY CHARGE RENT. THAT IS
ALREADY HAPPENING. TENANTS ARE
ALREADY PAYING FOR THAT, SO THE
$10 FEE AS AN ADDED THING, ICAL
BANKS LOVE OVERDRAFT FEES. THEY
HAD THESE CHARGES. IT DOESN'T
REALLY -- THEY ACT LIKE IT IS
CONVENIENCE FOR YOU AS A
CONSUMER, BUT THE FACT IS IT IS
A LOT OF PROFIT FOR THEM TO
CHARGE MONEY WHEN YOU BOUNCE A
CHECK OR A CREDIT CARD. IT
DOESNT GO THROUGH. I THINK LATE
FEES ARE NOT SUSTAINING LOSS SO
MUCH AS IT IS ADDED. WHILE IT
MAY BE A WAY TO TRY TO
INCENTIVIZE TENANTS TO PAY ON
TIME, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS
TRUE IN REALITY. I THINK REALLY
WHAT IT IS DOING IS JUST SORT
OF ADDED FEES THEY CAN COLLECT.
YOU KNOW, HELP WITH THE BOTTOM
LINE, BUT IT IS NOT REALLY
HELPING WITH LOSS. MY
ASSUMPTION, FROM MY EXPERIENCE
WHEN I AM DEALING WITH LANDLORD
HERE AND ELSEWHERE, I DON'T
THINK LATE FEES ARE REALLY A
BIG FACTOR AND ULTIMATELY
COMPENSATE FOR LOSS AND THAT I
NOT HOW LANDLORDS AND REAL
ESTATE INVESTORS REALLY USE
THEM.
>> I THINK I'M GOING TO AGREE T
DISAGREE, BECAUSE WE HEARD SOME
PEOPLE FROM PUBLIC COMMENT. I
THINK THERE IS THE LATE FEE FRO
THE DETERRENCE FACTOR. PEOPLE
SAY LOOK, WE WILL IMPOSE THE
LATE FEE FOR A DETERRENCE FACTO
SO YOU DON'T PAY HER RENT.
WHETHER THAT IS RIGHT OR
PUNITIVE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE
QUESTIONS THERE. SOME LANDLORD
WOULD SAY AND I THINK WE HEARD
ONE IN PUBLIC COMMENT, THAT THE
COST ON THEM IS THAT THEY HAVE
TO PAY A MORTGAGE. WHETHER WE
AGREE WITH THAT OR NOT, WE HAVE
TO TALK ABOUT IT. IF YOU ARE A
LANDLORD AND YOU RENTERS ARE
CONTINUALLY LATE, SO YOU ARE
PAYING THESE BILLS. WHAT YOU
ARE SAYING AS A LANDLORD IS, TH
REASON I AM IMPOSING THIS FEE I
BECAUSE OF THE COSTS I ABSORB
AND I'M THE ONE WHO HAS TO PAY
THE MORTGAGE ON THE PROPERTY. S
WHEN YOU ARE LATE, THEN I MIGHT
MEET BE LATE. WHETHER THAT IS
LEGITIMATE OR NOT, I THINK THAT
IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DISCUSS
YOU KNOW, WE MAY JUST HAVE TO
AGREE TO DISAGREE ABOUT THE REN
ITSELF. BUT I JUST WANTED TO
CLARIFY THAT POINT.
>> THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO
SAY A FEW THINGS IN RESPONSE
AND I KNOW ASHA'S HAND HAS BEEN
UP FOR A WHILE AND I HAVE NOTED
THAT. I WILL BRING YOU IN. I
JUST WANT TO SAY QUICKLY THAT
ANYBODY IS FREE TO HAVE ANY
POINT OF VIEW. YOU KNOW, IF YO
ARE SAYING IS IT FAIR TO SAY --
WELL, YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU
WANT TO SAY. FROM MY
STANDPOINT, FAIR OR NOT HAS TO
BE BASED ON ACTUAL DATA AND
THERE IS NO DATA TO SUPPORT TH
KIND OF IDEA THAT YOU ARE
SAYING. THAT SOMEHOW LATE FEES
ARE NECESSARY TO MAKE LANDLORDS
WHOLE. THAT JUST IS NOT TRUE. A
POINTED OUT, THAT IS NOT HOW
LANDLORDS ARE GOING TO BE USING
LATE FEES, BECAUSE THEY ARE
ALREADY MAKING A BIG PROFIT AN
THE RENT THAT THEY CHARGE
ACCOUNTS FOR ANY LITTLE THING
THAT MIGHT GO WRONG HERE OR
THERE AND HAVING THAT POINT OF
VIEW, AS I SAID, YOU CAN HAVE
ANY POINT OF VIEW, BUT IS IT
SUPPORTED BY DATA? I DON'T THIN
SO. THAT SOMEHOW IF A TENANT I
LATE BY A FEW DAYS IT IS
ABSOLUTE CRISIS AND CHAOS FOR A
LANDLORD, THAT IS NOT TRUE. THE
HAVE A LOT OF CUSHION AND A LO
OF MONEY TO PAY MORTGAGE
PAYMENTS AND IF THEY ARE NOT
ABLE TO MAKE THEIR MORTGAGE
PAYMENTS WITHOUT GOUGING THEIR
TENANT, THEN THEY SHOULD NOT BE
IN THE BUSINESS. SOMEONE ELSE
SHOULD ON THAT UNIT OR IT SHOUL
BE PUBLIC HOUSING. BUT THE IDEA
THAT THEY HAVE MORTGAGE
PAYMENTS TO MAKE AND THAT IS WH
THEY GOUGE TENANTS, THAT IS NOT
VIABLE. NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT T
EXPLOIT RENTERS. IF YOU ARE IN
THE BUSINESS TO EXPLOIT RENTERS
THEN YES, IT SHOULD BE CORRECT
FOR RENTERS TO PUSH BACK, WHICH
IS WHY WE HAVE THIS LAW. SO I
THINK I WOULD URGE EVERYBODY TO
LOOK AT WHAT IS ACTUALLY
STATISTICALLY AVAILABLE FOR US
TO LOOK AT AND THIS IDEA THAT
LANDLORDS ARE OPERATING IN LOSS
ALL THE TIME AND ARE ALWAYS ON
THE EDGE, THAT IS JUST NOT
SUPPORTED BY THE DATA. IF YOU
LOOK AT THE DATA ON REAL ESTAT
PROFITS, IT IS OVERWHELMING, TH
AMOUNT OF PROFIT THEY MAKE, SO
THAT IS NOT TRUE. THE OTHER
THING IS, AS FAR AS INCENTIVE,
COUNCIL PRESIDENT JUAREZ, YOU
MENTIONED WE NEED LATE FEES AS
A DETERRENT. AGAIN, THERE IS NO
EVIDENCE THAT THAT IS THE REASO
WHY TENANTS ARE PAYING, ON THE
OCCASION THAT THEY PAY LATE, IT
IS BECAUSE THEY ARE IN
FINANCIAL DISTRESS AND AS
EDMUND, I THINK, POINTED OUT
EARLIER AS HE SPOKE, THAT EVEN
-- CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG --
BUT EVEN DURING THE EVICTION
MORATORIUM, THERE IS NO REAL
DATA TO SUPPORT THIS IDEA THAT
JUST LEFT AND RIGHT TENANTS WER
PAYING LATE. THE DATA SUPPORTS
THAT TENANTS PAY RENT ON TIME,
AS FAR AS THEY CAN HELP IT. THE
HAVE THE CASH. THEY CAN PAY IT
THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO
POINT OUT IS THAT MY OFFICE DID
RESEARCH ON THE BURIEN AND
AUBURN SITUATION. THAT LAW HAS
BEEN IN PLACE FOR A FEW YEARS
AND WE COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING
FROM A GOOGLE SEARCH ON ANY
NEWS ARTICLE OR ANYTHING THAT
SINCE THIS $10 LAW HAS PASSED,
SUDDENLY RENTERS ARE NOT PAYING
RENT ON TIME IN ORDER TO TAKE
QUOTE-UNQUOTE ADVANTAGE OF THIS
LIBERAL LAW OR WHATEVER. THERE
IS NO SUCH DATA AVAILABLE. I
WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT.
>> YEAH AND COUNCILMEMBER, I A
HAPPY TO FOLLOW-UP WITH YOU AND
TALK MORE ABOUT THESE CONCERNS.
I AGREE THAT IT IS A POINT WORT
CONSIDERING. I SEE THE LOGIC
THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER WHAT
THE IMPACT IS ON THE LANDLORDS
SIDE, BUT LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE
NOT HAD LATE FEES FOR THE PAST
THREE YEARS AND THERE HAS NOT
BEEN A LARGE INVESTMENT PROPERT
FORECLOSURE CRISIS IN SEATTLE
AS FAR AS I KNOW. IT'S JUST NOT
HAPPENING. LANDLORDS TEND TO BE
VERY CAGEY ABOUT HOW MUCH MONE
THEY ARE MAKING. THEY OFTEN SAY
WE ARE BARELY GETTING PROFIT,
BUT WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE
GETTING INTO THE BUSINESS? IT
DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. WE LOOKED A
DATA ABOUT HOW MUCH RENT COVERS
OF THE OVERALL PROPERTY AND WE
CAN SEND YOU SOME OF THOSE. IN
HIGH POVERTY AREAS THOSE PAY
FOR ONE QUARTER OF THE ENTIRE
VALUE. WHICH MEANS YOU ARE
PAYING THE ENTIRE MORTGAGE
TAKING IT OFF FAIR MARKET IN
FOUR YEARS. THAT IS AN
INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU
ARE MAKING ON THAT. AGAIN, IT I
COMMON. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE
IS A REALLY SUBSTANTIAL LOSS ON
THE LANDLORDS SIDE. I DON'T
THINK IT IS HAPPENING AND WE
ARE NOT SEEING NEGATIVE EFFECTS
OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS AS FAR
AS WE CAN TELL FROM THE ZERO
DOLLARS LATE FEE, BUT I AM HAPP
TO TALK TO YOU MORE ABOUT THAT.
>> THANK YOU. ASHA, GO AHEAD.
>> I JUST WANTED TO ADD ONE
POINT OF CLARIFICATION. IT WAS
MENTIONED THAT THERE WERE NOT
LATE FEES FOR THE PAST COUPLE
YEARS. THE SOURCE OF THAT IS
THE SEATTLE BAN ON LATE FEES OR
OTHER CHARGES ASSOCIATED WITH
NONPAYMENT OF RENT, WHICH WENT
IN EFFECT WITH THE CIVIL
EMERGENCY AND THAT PROTECTION
WILL EXPIRE A YEAR FROM THE EN
OF THE EMERGENCY, WHICH I I
REMEMBER CORRECTLY IS OCTOBER
31, 2023. I JUST WANTED TO MAK
THAT CLEAR.
>> THANKS, ASHA. ARE THERE ANY
COUNCILMEMBERS WITH QUESTIONS?
GO AHEAD. COUNCILMEMBER 1025.
>> THANK YOU, I ALWAYS
APPRECIATE THAT YOU AND I HAVE
CHANCE TO TALK THESE THINGS
THROUGH ON THE QUESTIONS WE AR
RAISING, SO WE CAN HAVE THE KIN
OF POLICY THAT WE WANT. WHAT WE
BELIEVE THE CITY OF SEATTLE IN
PARTICULAR IN YOUR COMMUNITY,
WHAT RENTERS NEED TO. SO I AGRE
WITH THE PREMISE THAT THERE
SHOULD BE A LIMIT ON LATE FEES,
JUST LIKE ON CREDIT CARDS AND I
AM GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP AS
AN ANALOGY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT
GOOD REASON THERE IS FOR A
PUNITIVE FEE FOR BEING LATE ON
A CREDIT CARD OR A BANK FEE. AS
YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH BAN
FEES, THAT THEY HAD TO REEL THA
IN WHEN PEOPLE WERE GETTING
CHARGED $20 PER DAY. THERE'S NO
REASON EXCEPT TO BE PUNITIVE AN
MAKE MONEY. THEN WHEN WE
EXPLORE THE QUESTION OF WHAT IS
THAT FEE, WHAT IS IT THAT
LANDLORDS ABSORB WHEN A RENTER
IS LATE, THAT IS WHAT I WAS
TRYING TO GET AT. I JUST WANT
TO UNDERSTAND. THERE ARE
LEGITIMATE DISCUSSIONS FROM TH
LANDLORD POINT OF VIEW. WHETHER
I AGREE OR NOT, IT STILL NEEDS
TO BE PUT OUT THERE. THE
QUESTION OF GOING BACK AND
FORTH BETWEEN A FLAT FEE AND A
PERSONAGE, I WANTED TO FLESH
THAT OUT TO UNDERSTAND THE
FOLKS THAT YOU HAVE THERE. LIKE
WHEN COUNCILMEMBER MORALES ASKE
HOW DID YOU COME TO $10 AND WH
DID THAT SEEM REASONABLE? THOSE
QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED FOR ME
AND I THINK I LOOK FORWARD TO
SEEING YOUR AMENDMENT. I THINK
WHEN ASHA WAS TALKING ABOUT TH
AMENDMENT NOT IMPOSING A FEE FO
GIVING NOTICE THAT YOU ARE LAT
ON YOUR RENT AND THEREFORE WE
ARE CHARGING YOU FOR A PIECE OF
PAPER TELLING YOU YOU ARE LATE
ON YOUR RENT. WHICH I THINK GOE
TO THE CATEGORY PROBABLY OF JUN
FEES. SO I WANT TO THANK YOU
FOR THAT AND THANK YOU FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE FOLKS TO
WALK US THROUGH THE POLICY
QUESTIONS THAT HAVE COME UP. S
I JUST WANTED TO END WITH THAT
COMMENT. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, PRESIDENT JUAREZ
AND I WILL ECHO WHAT WAS SAID,
THAT IF THERE ARE FURTHER
QUESTIONS -- HAPPY TO HELP.
ALSO I AM SURE BE:SEATTLE AND
TENANTS UNION ARE HAPPY TO HELP
AND ALSO REACH OUT TO TED IN M
OFFICE. YOU KNOW TED REALLY
WELL.
>> WE ALL KNOW TED.
>> WE ALL KNOW TED. SO IF
COUNCILMEMBERS HAVE FURTHER
QUESTIONS, IF YOU DON'T MIND IF
YOU COULD JUST HOLD THEM FOR A
LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE WE HAVE
THREE PANELISTS HERE WHO WE
HAVE TOLD THEY COULD LEAVE BY
11:00 AND OBVIOUSLY IT IS
ALMOST 11:00, SO I APPRECIATE
YOU STAYING. I KNOW YOU HAVE
WORK AND SCHOOL, BUT I WILL
INVITE YOU TO INTRODUCE YOURSEL
FOR THE RECORD.
>>
>> I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR
INVITING US TODAY TO COME SPEAK
ON THIS. I AM ELLEN ANDERSON. %
AM A STUDENT AT U DUB AND A
RENTER IN DISTRICT TWO.
ABSOLUTE STRONG SUPPORT OF THIS
BILL FROM COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT
I'M A RENTER AND I WILL LIKELY
BE FORCED TO CONTINUE BEING A
RENTER FOR THE REST OF MY ADULT
LIFE. JUST LIKE THE MAJORITY OF
PEOPLE MY AGE WHO HAVE GROWN UP
ONLY KNOWING ECONOMIC CRISIS
AFTER ECONOMIC CRISIS , I
CURRENTLY LIVE WITH A BUNCH OF
ROOMMATES BECAUSE I CANNOT
AFFORD NOT TO. WITH SEATTLE REN
HAVING ABSOLUTELY SKYROCKETED
OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES, THIS
COST OF LIVING CRISIS HAS ONLY
MADE THINGS WORSE. AS A PERSON
WHO IS STRUGGLING, OUR RENTS DO
NOT REFLECT THAT. WE DO NOT
HAVE LOWER RENT BECAUSE WE ARE
IN THAT POSITION. AS A STUDENT
THE HOUSING CRISIS IS A
PARTICULARLY SHARP STING. MOST
OF US CAN BARELY AFFORD TO BUY
BASIC NECESSITIES WHILE ALSO
PAYING FOR SCHOOL, RENT, ON TOP
OF EVERYTHING ELSE. JUST OVER
YEAR AGO ME AND MY ROOMMATES
WERE FORCED OUT OF THEIR HOME
THAT WE WERE RENTING BECAUSE TH
BASEMENT FLOODED . UNFORTUNATEL
THAT WAS ALSO WHERE MY BEDROOM
WAS LOCATED. THIS FLOODING ALS
ENDED UP REVEALING THAT THE
FOUNDATION OF OUR HOUSE WAS
DANGEROUS AND INCREDIBLY
COMPROMISED. OUR LANDLORD AT TH
TIME TOLD US THIS WAS NO BIG
DEAL AND FLOODING JUST HAPPENS
WHEN IT RAINS AND THAT WE SHOUL
JUST EXPECT THIS AGAIN IN THE
FUTURE. THE OVERALL RESPONSE WA
INCREDIBLY PROBLEMATIC. OUR
LANDLORD REFUSED TO GET A
SERIOUS INSPECTION FOR THE
PROBLEM BY A LICENSED
PROFESSIONAL AND LEFT MY ROOM I
THE BASEMENT WITH SQUISHY,
MOLDING WALLS AND MUD CAKED
FLOOR THAT WAS OUR ENTIRE
RESPONSIBILITY TO DEAL WITH.
BECAUSE THE LANDLORDS REFUSED T
MAKE THE NECESSARY REPAIRS, HE
FORCED US TO CHOOSE BETWEEN
SACRIFICING OUR HEALTH AND
SAFETY OR UPROOT OUR LIVES AND
RAPIDLY FIND A NEW PLACE TO
LIVE. WE BASICALLY HAD THREE
WEEKS TO FIND A NEW PLACE TO
LIVE. IF WE HAD DELAYED PAYING
THE RENT BECAUSE OF THIS HORROR
SHOW THAT THE HOUSE HAD BECOME,
WE WOULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED HUGE
LATE FEES. FOR THE NIGHTMARE H
INFLICTED ON OUR LIVES, THE
LANDLORD NEVER HAD TO PAY US ON
CENT. NOT LONG AFTER MOVING OUT
OF THAT HOUSE AND INTO THE HOUS
WE ARE CURRENTLY RENTING , THE
CEILING IN MY BEDROOM BEGAN TO
LEAK RIGHT ONTO MY BED. IT TOOK
MY LANDLORD THREE MONTHS TO
REPAIR MY CEILING AND TO PREVEN
THIS CONTINUAL LINKING . AFTER
REQUESTING AND DEMANDING REPAIR
MULTIPLE TIMES . AND THAT WAS
JUST ONE OF A VERY LONG LIST OF
REPAIRS THAT TOOK WEEKS AND
MONTHS TO BE ADDRESSED. SOME
EXISTING FROM THE MOMENT WE
MOVED INTO OUR HOUSE. OUR
CURRENT LEASE SPECIFIES THAT IF
ANY RENT IS NOT PAID ON OR
BEFORE THE DUE DATE, TENANTS
AGREE TO PAY A PENALTY OF $40
FOR EACH DAY THAT THE RENT IS
OVERDUE. INCLUDING THE DATE OF
PAYMENT UP TO A MAXIMUM OF 18%
OF ONE MONTH'S RENT. ALL UNPAID
AMOUNTS WILL BEAR AN INTEREST O
12% UNTIL PAID. SO THAT MEANS
THAT WE WOULD BE PAID -- WE
WOULD BE CHARGED HUNDREDS OF
DOLLARS IF WE ARE JUST A FEW
DAYS LATE ON RENT. THEN WE WOUL
HAVE TO PAY ON TOP OF THAT AN
ADDITIONAL 12% INTEREST ON THAT
UNPAID RENT AND FEES. A
COMPOUNDING LATE FEE LIKE THAT
WOULD COST MORE MONEY THAN ME
AND MY ROOMMATE NEED TO PAY FOR
GROCERIES AND UTILITIES, WHICH
ARE ALSO THROUGH THE ROOF RIGHT
NOW. THERE IS NO CLAUSE WITHIN
OUR LEASE REQUIRING THAT
LANDLORDS PAY US $40 A DAY UNTI
REPAIRS ARE COMPLETED. IF THERE
WAS, HE WOULD ACTUALLY PROBABLY
OWE US THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
THESE PREDATORY LATE FEES ARE A
COMPLETE RACKET. WE SEE THAT
THEY ARE SET UP TO SCRAPE EVEN
MORE MONEY OUT OF THE POCKETS O
RENTERS WHO ARE BARELY GETTING
BY. IT IS AN UNBEARABLE
SITUATION FOR RENTERS LIKE ME
ACROSS THE CITY. THE ONLY WAY W
WILL CHANGE IT IS BY GETTING
ORGANIZED. TO SHIFT THE BALANCE
OF POWER FROM WEALTHY CORPORATE
LANDLORDS TO A GRASSROOTS
MOVEMENT OF RENTERS WHO MAKE UP
THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HERE IN
SEATTLE. WE NEED PROTECTIONS
LIKE THIS ORDINANCE TO CAP
PREDATORY LATE FEES AT $10 A
MONTH, JUST LIKE WE NEED ALL OF
THE PROTECTIONS THAT RENTERS
MOVEMENTS AND COUNCILMEMBER
SAWANT'S OFFICE HAVE ALREADY
WON. PUBLICLY OWNED , AFFORDABL
HOUSING. SEATTLE RENTERS ALSO
ARE IN HUGE NEED OF CITYWIDE
RENT CONTROL. WITHOUT CORPORATE
LOOPHOLES. WE CANNOT AFFORD
LATE FEES BUT WE ALSO JUST CAN'
AFFORD THE PLAIN RENT WE HAVE
TO GO THROUGH EVERY SINGLE
MONTH. THAT JUST SEEMS TO GET
HIGHER AND HIGHER AND HIGHER.
WHILE WE JUST STAY THE SAME. WE
NEED A LAW THAT MANDATES
LANDLORDS TO EFFECTIVELY PAY
THEIR TENANTS IF THE LANDLORD
FAILS TO FIX SERIOUS HOUSEHOLD
CODE VIOLATIONS , LIKE HEATING
IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER. BY THE
TENDENCY OF BEING ABLE TO PAY
LESS RENT ADJUSTED FOR THE
COMPENSATION OF PROBLEMS THAT
REMAINED UNFIXED. I'M COMMITTE
TO FIGHT FOR THIS LAW. I JUST
DESCRIBED FOR RENT CONTROL AND
THE CAP ON LATE FEES AT $10 A
MONTH. I HOPE THAT RENTERS,
UNION MEMBERS, AND COMMUNITY
MEMBERS WHO ARE WATCHING WILL
JOIN US. THANK YOU.
>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. MY
NAME IS JOSIE. I AM A STATE
CHILD AND FAMILY WELFARE SOCIA
WORKER, A MEMBER OF THE
WASHINGTON FEDERATION O STATE
EMPLOYEES UNION AND A RENTER I
DISTRICT 3. I'M HERE TODAY TO
SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE $10 CAP O
LATE FEES. WORKING PEOPLE IN
SEATTLE ARE ALREADY FACING A
DRASTIC INCREASE IN THE COST OF
LIVING. FROM GROCERIES TO RENT,
THE CITY IS BECOMING HARDER TO
LIVE IN. AS A SOCIAL WORKER I
WORK WITH SOME OF THE MOST
VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN KING COUNT
-- WITH CHILDREN WHO MAY NOT
KNOW WHERE THEIR NEXT MEAL IS
GOING TO COME FROM. WITH FAMILY
MEMBERS WHO TAKE IN THEIR
GRANDCHILDREN OR NIECES AND
NEPHEWS, ALL OF A SUDDEN WITH
EXTRA MOUTH TO FEED. FORCING
MANY TO FEED THEIR FAMILY OR
PAY THEIR RENT ON TIME. I WORK
WITH A FAMILY NOW WHO
CONTINUALLY FACES THE REAL
IMPACTS OF THESE LATE FEES.
THIS FAMILY IS MADE UP OF A
GRANDMOTHER WHO SUDDENLY HAD TO
TAKE IN HER THREE GRANDCHILDREN
UNDER THE AGE OF FIVE GOOD HER
RENT IS ALREADY HALF OF HER
INCOME AND SHE IS NOW PROVIDING
FOR THREE MORE PEOPLE AND
BALANCING THE NEW TASKS OF
PARENTING AND WORKING FULL-TIME
WITH LITTLE SUPPORT. SHE
SACRIFICED A GREAT DEAL TO
ENSURE THAT HER GRANDCHILDREN
WERE NOT PLACED IN THE FOSTER
CARE SYSTEM AND COULD STAY WITH
THEIR FAMILY AND COMMUNITY. DUE
TO THE SACRIFICE, SHE HAS GOTTE
BEHIND ON RENT, MISSING SEVERAL
MONTHS' PAYMENTS. IT IS
CHALLENGING ENOUGH TO MISS
PAYMENTS BECAUSE THEY STACK
HIGHER AND HIGHER, BUT WITH HER
CORPORATE LANDLORD TOO LATE
FEES, SHE HAS QUICKLY GOTTEN
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BEHIND,
BEING PUNISHED BY A BUSINESS FO
PUTTING THE NEEDS OF HER
GRANDCHILDREN FIRST. THIS
CONTINUED FINANCIAL STRESS OF
GETTING HER RENT TOGETHER EACH
MONTH IS NOT MADE EASIER WHEN
THE RENT IS MORE EXPENSIVE AFTE
BEING A FEW DAYS LATE. THE CAUS
OF LATE PAYMENTS IS NOT A LACK
OF WILL FINANCIAL DISTRESS.
THESE ARE A PUNISHMENT IMPOSED
ON FAMILIES FOR BEING POOR. IF
THIS GRANDMOTHER LOSES HER HOME
HER GRANDCHILDREN LOSE OUR HOME
THEY COULD END UP IN AN UNSAFE
ENVIRONMENT OR IN FOSTER CARE
FAR AWAY FROM PEOPLE THEY KNOW.
THIS IS AN ISSUE OF CHILD SAFET
AND WELL-BEING IMPACTING
COUNTLESS FAMILIES FACING
EVICTIONS OR HOUSING AND
SECURITY. EVICTIONS SHOULD NOT
BE ABLE TO DECIDE THE FATE OF
HOUSING FOR A FAMILY OR A CHILD
THESE ARE REAL, WORKING PEOPLE
WHO ARE IMPACTED BY THESE LATE
FEES. THE STORY OF THIS
GRANDMOTHER IS REPEATED
COUNTLESS TIMES IN THE FAMILIES
I SERVED AND ECHOED IN EVERY
NEIGHBORHOOD IN SEATTLE. THESE
LATE FEES ADD MORE TO THE
CRISIS MANY WORKING PEOPLE ARE
ALREADY IN. CAPPING LATE FEES
WOULD RELIEVE SOME OF THIS
BURDEN AND GIVE PEOPLE MORE ROO
TO PAY THEIR RENT IN FULL. AS
RENTER MYSELF I AM FORTUNATE MY
SMALL LANDLORD HAS NOT PUT IN
PLACE HIGH FEES. WHEN I FIRST
STARTED WORKING FOR THE STATE O
WASHINGTON MY CHECK GOT LOST IN
THE MAIL. I WASN'T PAID FOR
ALMOST A MONTH. LUCKILY MY
LANDLORD WAS UNDERSTANDING AND
ALLOWED ME TO PAY LATE WITH NO
EXTRA COST. MY SMALL,
INDEPENDENT LANDLORD MADE IT
CLEAR IN THIS SECTION THAT THEY
DON'T NEED THIS EXTRA PAYMENT
THAT MIGHT COME IF I AM UNABLE
TO PAY MY RENT ON TIME. THESE
LARGE FEES THEY ARE A SCAM
PREYING UPON THE MOST VULNERABL
AMONG US AND AN ADDED PROPERTY
TAX IT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO LIV
WELL IN SEATTLE. THESE
EXORBITANT LATE FEES BEING
DEMANDED BY LANDLORDS ARE
RIDICULOUS AND UNNECESSARY
BURDEN ON WORKING PEOPLE. I
STRONGLY SUPPORT THIS ORDINANCE
FROM COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT TO
CAP LATE FEES AT $10 A MONTH
BECAUSE AS A RENTER YOU SHOULD
NOT HAVE TO BE LUCKY TO GET ONE
OF THE FEW DECENT SMALL
LANDLORDS. IT SHOULD NOT DEPEND
ON YOUR LUCK. ALL RENTERS SHOUL
BE PROTECTED.
>> HELLO, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS
RUTH. I AM AN EDUCATOR AT A
NEARBY MIDDLE SCHOOL. I HAVE
ALSO BEEN RENTING IN SEATTLE
FOR THE LAST 12 YEARS. THE
SECOND UNIT I EVER RENTED IN
SEATTLE WAS UNDER THE OWNERSHIP
REMEMBER HIM AS THE INFAMOUS
SLUMLORD WHO TRIED TO GOUGE HIS
IMMIGRANT TENANTS WHILE REFUSIN
TO FIX HOUSING CODE VIOLATIONS
THOSE TENANTS GOT ORGANIZED
ALONGSIDE COUNCILMEMBER
SAWANT'S OFFICE. RENTERS BUILT
ON THIS VICTORY AND ONCE AGAIN
WITH COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT'S
OFFICE WON A LAW AGAINST
RAISING RENTS IN BUILDINGS THAT
HAVE MAJOR VIOLATIONS LIKE
RODENT INFESTATIONS AND BLACK
MOLD. WE RENTED A LITTLE HOUSE
FROM HIM STARTING ONE PAUL .
WHEN WINTER CAME, WE WERE
FREEZING. WE REALIZED THERE WAS
NO CENTRAL HEATING IN SIGHT .
WHEN HE FINALLY CAME OVER, HE
UNSCREWED A PANEL OF OUR KITCHE
WALL TO REVEAL A FURNACE THAT W
HAD NEVER BEEN TOLD ABOUT . HE
POKES FUN AT US FOR NOT SOMEHOW
REALIZING IT WAS THERE AND
LIVING IN A HOUSE WHERE IT WAS
SO COLD WE COULD SEE OUR BREATH
THIS AND OTHER EXPERIENCES MADE
ME START TO REALIZE THAT A LEAS
IS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN TWO
PARTIES, BUT ONLY THE RENTER IS
REALLY OBLIGATED TO HOLD UP
THEIR END. IF I DON'T PAY MY
RENT, I GET CHARGED LATE FEES
AND THREATENED WITH EVICTION. I
MY LANDLORD DOESN'T MAKE
NECESSARY REPAIRS, I'M LUCKY I
I REACH SOMEONE FROM THE SEATTL
DEPARTMENT OF CONSTRUCTION AND
INSPECTIONS WHO WILL ACTUALLY
STAND UP FOR ME INSTEAD OF
CHUMMING IT UP WITH MY LANDLORD
WHEN THEY COME TO INVESTIGATE.
WHEN WORKING-CLASS PEOPLE SIGN
LEASE, THEY ARE NOT FREELY
MAKING A CHOICE. THEY MAY HAVE
PICKED THIS UNIT FROM A FEW
OPTIONS, BUT THE LANDLORD IS
FIRMLY IN POSITION OF POWER.
SHELTER IS OUR MOST BASIC AND
HUMAN NEED , BUT THERE IS A
SEPARATE CLASS OF OWNERS WHO
ARBITRARILY DECIDE WHETHER OR
NOT WE WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS
IT, SO RENTERS ARE ALREADY IN A
EXTREMELY COMPROMISED POSITION.
LANDLORDS KNOW ALL THIS AND
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VULNERABL
SITUATION RENTERS ARE IN.
CONCERNING THE POWER LANDLORDS
HOLD OVER US, FOLKS WHO ARE
BEING EXPLOITED DON'T WANT TO
ROCK THE BOAT . WE SHOULD BE
ABLE TO RELY ON OUR GOVERNMENT
TO PROTECT US INSTEAD OF HAVING
TO TAKE THINGS INTO OUR OWN
HANDS WHEN THE STAKES ARE SO
HIGH. WHEN I RENTED FROM CARL,
WAS 19 YEARS OLD . HARLEY ON
EQUAL FOOTING WITH THEM. LATE
FEES ARE NOT REGULATED IN ANY
WAY RIGHT NOW. MOST LANDLORDS
ARE HAPPY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
THIS. IN MY CURRENT LEASE I AM
SUBJECT TO A $75 FEE IF MY RENT
IS NOT SUBMITTED BY THE THIRD O
THE MONTH AND AN ADDITIONAL $25
FEE EVERY DAY AFTER THAT. THAT
IS NOT EVEN THE HIGHEST OF WHAT
RENTERS EXPERIENCE, BUT IT MEAN
THAT IF THERE IS SOME SMALL
HICCUP AND I GET PAID ON THE
FIFTH ONE MONTH , I'M CERTAINLY
PAYING $100 MORE THAN I BUDGET
FOR. WITH THIS LEGISLATION
PASSED, I WOULD ONLY BE AN OUT
$10. LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHEC
AND ARE NOT ABLE TO BUILD ENOUG
SAVINGS TO HANDLE EMERGENCY
EXPENSES. SAY MY CAR BREAKS DOW
AND I NEED TO REPAIR IT IN ORDE
TO GET TO WORK. I'M NOT CHOOSIN
BETWEEN PAYING MY RENT AND
GETTING TO MY JOB WHERE I MAKE
THE MONEY TO PAY MY RENT IN THE
FIRST PLACE. LANDLORDS CAN
CHOOSE TO BE FORGIVING, BUT
RENTERS ARE COMPLETELY AT THEIR
WHIM. LATE FEES ON THEI OWN ARE
NOT GROUNDS FOR EVICTION, BUT I
IS NOT TOO TOUGH TO SEE HOW A
PERSON TRYING TO CATCH UP ON
THEIR LATE FEES GETS FURTHER
BEHIND ON THEIR RENT AND STILL
ENDS UP EVICTED, POSSIBLY
WITHOUT HOUSING AT ALL. I KNOW
THE COUNCIL IS WELL AWARE OF TH
THOUSANDS OF NEIGHBORS LIVING O
THE STREETS OF SEATTLE , OFTEN
DOING THE BEST THEY CAN IN
ENCAMPMENTS THAT ARE BEING
SADISTICALLY DESTROYED BY THE
STUDY. THE TRUTH IS THAT MOST
RENTERS ARE ONLY ONE OR TWO
CHECKS AWAY FROM LOSING THEIR
HOME AND HAVING THIS REALITY BE
THEIR OWN. I WOULD SAY THAT IS
PLENTY OF INCENTIVE TO PAY RENT
I HAVE TO VOTE YES ON THE
SITUATION. WORKING CLASS PEOPLE
HAVE IT HARD ENOUGH WITH
COST-OF-LIVING INCREASING ALL
THE TIME. IF WE BARELY HAVE
MONEY FOR OUR RENT, WE CERTAINL
DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR RENT PLUS
THE COMPLETELY ARBITRARY AND
UNREGULATED LATE FEES. THANK YO
FOR YOUR TIME.
>> THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR
STORIES AND ALSO TALKING ABOUT
-- SHARING WITH US WHAT IS ON
YOUR OWN LEASES WITH YOUR
LANDLORDS. AND IN YOUR CASE
TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE YOU'RE
SERVING IN YOUR CAPACITY AT
WORK AND A REAL-LIFE EXAMPLE O
A GRANDMOTHER HAVING TO TAKE
CARE OF HER GRANDCHILDREN. IT
IMMEDIATELY BRINGS TO LIGHT WHA
KIND OF IMPACT OF THIS CAN
HAVE. THE FAR-REACHING IMPACT O
CHILDREN AND LITTLE CHILDREN
ALL UNDER FIVE ENDING UP IN
FOSTER CARE POSSIBLY IF THIS
LADY IS PUSHED OUT OF HER HOME.
THANK YOU FOR SHARING THOSE
POSSIBLE POWERFUL STORIES. I
REALLY APPRECIATE THE PATIENCE
OF ALL OF THE PANELISTS. IT HA
BEEN A GOOD DISCUSSION. I
APPRECIATE RESPONSES . I THINK
THAT HELPED CLARIFY A LOT OF
THINGS. IT IS TAKING UP A LITTL
BIT OF TIME, BUT I WANTED TO --
SORRY FOR THIS, BUT -- THIS IS
ABOUT THE SECOND AGENDA ITEM.
OUR PERSON WHO IS HERE HAS TO
LEAVE QUICKLY. WHAT I WANT TO D
IS JUST WELCOME YOU TO SPEAK
AND THEN WE WILL GO BACK TO THI
AGENDA ITEM AND DO THE VOTE ON
THAT OTHER ITEM AS SCHEDULED.
SCHNDINE, IF YOU CAN UNMUTE
YOURSELF AND GO AHEAD.
>> GOOD MORNING , EVERYONE. I
AM SCHNIDINE. I AM A LEGAL
ANALYST AND SERVE AS THE ERG
CO-CHAIR AS WELL. I APPLIED
FOR THE SEATTLE RENTERS
COMMISSION SOMETIME LAST YEAR
BECAUSE I WAS REALLY UPSET WITH
MY RENTAL SITUATION AND REALLY
WANTED TO BE A PART OF THE
CHANGE THAT I WANTED TO SEE. I
APPLIED TO BE INTERVIEWED. I
AM JUST PENDING APPOINTMENT AND
LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH
EVERYONE AND HOPEFULLY MAKING
MEANINGFUL CHANGES.
>> THANK YOU, SCHNIDINE. BEFORE
YOU GO, CAN YOU SAY A LITTLE BI
ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE
DISCUSSION SO FAR ON THIS
PARTICULAR LEGISLATION AND ALS
WHAT YOU HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH BY
BEING ON THE COMMISSION?
>> YEAH. THIS WAS A VERY
FRUITFUL DISCUSSION FOR ME. THI
IS ACTUALLY MY FIRST COUNCIL
MEETING I'M SITTING INTO. JUST
HEARING EVERYONE'S STORIES IS
HONESTLY SO EMPOWERING AND
DRIVES ME EVEN MORE TO BE A PAR
OF THIS . IT IS HONESTLY
DISHEARTENING TO HEAR THESE
STORIES ABOUT HOW LANDLORDS AR
TREATING THEIR TENANTS AND HOW
UNFAIR THESE PRACTICES ARE AND
THE SITUATIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE
IN. AS FAR AS SERVING ON THE
COMMISSION, I DO REALLY WANT TO
BE A PART OF MEANINGFUL CHANGES
THERE IS A LOT TO LEARN AND BE
PART OF. BUT I REALLY WANT TO
MAKE THIS MORE OF A RENTERS
MARKET. SO THEY CAN EASILY REN
AND BENEFIT FROM THIS LEASE
AGREEMENT INSTEAD OF JUST LIVIN
THERE . ACTUALLY HAVING A GOOD
QUALITY OF LIFE IN THEIR HOMES
AND HAVE GOOD RELATIONSHIPS
BETWEEN THEM AND THEIR
LANDLORDS.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, SCHNIDINE
I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. I
THINK WITH WHAT YOU JUST SAID
YOU EXPLAINED REALLY WELL WHY
YOU SHOULD BE ON THE RENTERS'
COMMISSION. THAT IS WHAT WE
WANT. THAT IS WHAT MY OFFICE
ONCE. WE WANT REAL ADVOCATES WH
ARE DRIVEN TO ADVOCATE FOR
RENTERS. COUNCILMEMBERS, DO YO
HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR SCHNIDIN
BEFORE WE GO BACK TO THE OTHE
ITEM? JUAREZ. PRESIDENT
JUAREZ. DID YOU WANT TO SPEAK
TO MAKE
>> OH, NO. I'M SORRY. I AM GOOD
>> YOU CAME ON CAMERA, SO I WAS
WONDERING. OKAY. I DON'T SEE
ANY COUNCILMEMBERS WITH THEIR
ZOOM HANDS UP. SCHNIDINE, YOU'R
FREE TO GO. I REALLY APPRECIATE
YOU COMING AND SHARING YOUR
THOUGHTS. THAT WAS VERY
IMPORTANT. AND THANK YOU FOR
YOUR PATIENCE.
>> THANK YOU, EVERYONE. BYE.
>> BYE-BYE. VIOLET . PLEASE
INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND GO AHEAD
>> VIOLET LAVATAI. I AM THE
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE
TENANTS UNION OF WASHINGTON.
WE ARE ALWAYS IN SUPPORT OF
LEGISLATION THAT HELPS TENANTS.
AND I THINK THE MISCONCEPTION
IS , WHY IS IT SO LOW? $10? I
THINK WITH -- LET ME EXPLAIN.
WE HAVE A HOTLINE THAT TENANTS
CALL IN ALL THE TIME. ONE OF
THE THINGS THAT WE GET
COMPLAINTS ABOUT IS THE
OUTRAGEOUS FEES FOR BEING LATE
ON THEIR RENT. AND I THINK ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO
SHARE IS SOMETIMES PEOPLE GET
BEHIND ON RENT. IT'S NOT ALWAYS
THE CASE THAT LANDLORDS ALWAYS
SAY THAT THE TENANT DOES NOT
WANT TO PAY THEIR RENT. THEY
ACTUALLY DO. SO WHEN THEY GET
BEHIND, THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES
THAT HAPPEN. IT ACTUALLY
BECOMES A MORE DIRE SITUATION
WHEN THEY GET CHARGED FOR THE
LATE FEES . THEY GET CHARGED
FOR THE RENT THEY ARE BEHIND
ALREADY. AND I THINK THAT IS
THE POINT THAT I WANTED TO BRIN
FORTH IN ALL OF THIS. IT IS
GREAT THAT EVERYBODY IS
TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF OF THIS
TO SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION . I
THINK THE $10 , BECAUSE
LANDLORDS WOULD SAY , THAT WILL
PUT US BEHIND -- YOU KNOW, THE
BANKS WILL COME AFTER US. THE
BAILOUT FOR BANKS OUR FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT, AS WE ALL KNOW. IS
IT PUTTING THEM BEHIND? WE ALS
HAVE TO EQUATE THE FACT THAT
THE RENT IS OUTRAGEOUS. THE REN
IS OUTRAGEOUS. WE HAVE BEEN
WORKING ON A BILL THAT DID NOT
GO THROUGH. IT IS TO CAP RENT.
I THINK WE ARE AT THE POINT
WHERE IT IS NOT ONLY AFFECTING
CITY OF SEATTLE , BUT THROUGHOU
OUR STATE. I THINK THIS FEE AT
$10 -- I WILL GIVE YOU AN
EXAMPLE. SARAH LET ME EXPLAIN
HER STORY. I REMEMBER TAKING A
CALL FROM SARA. SARA IS A SENIO
CITIZEN WHO GOT BEHIND ON HER
RENT. THERE WERE CIRCUMSTANCES
SHE HAD TO PAY EXTRA . SHE DOES
GET $600 A MONTH. AND SHE LIVE
ON SUBSIDIES . SOME OF THE MONE
SHE DEPENDS ON SHE HAD TO USE
FOR OTHER THINGS. SO THAT
BROUGHT ON A LATE CHARGE FROM
HER LANDLORDS. JUST IMAGINE
$600 IS YOUR INCOME. WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT BELOW POVERTY.
AND TO ACTUALLY CHARGE YOU $50
TO GET CHARGED ON TOP OF THE
$50. THAT IS ALMOST A THIRD OF
HER INCOME SHE GETS MONTHLY.
AND I THINK WE MISS THE POINT O
, OH, THE POOR LANDLORDS. I
THINK THE BUSINESSES -- I'M NOT
-- I'M JUST GOING TO SAY , WITH
ALL OF THE STUFF THAT IF YOU
WANT TO BE A LANDLORD, THIS IS
PART OF WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED T
DO. LIKE REPAIRS. I THINK THE
THING WE HEAR ON OUR HOTLINE IS
WHEN WE PAY FOR ALL OF THIS
REPAIR THAT IS THE RCW -- IT
SAYS YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE.
THERE ARE ALSO THESE THINGS
CALLED ADMIN FEES. I DON'T EVEN
KNOW WHAT THAT IS. I'M NOT EVEN
KIDDING YOU. WE GET COMPLAINTS
ABOUT ADMIN FEES. WHAT IS ADMIN
FEE? WHEN I ASK PROPERTIES ,
WHAT IS ADMIN FEE? YOU WANT TO
HEAR SOMETHING? THEY DON'T EVEN
KNOW WHAT ADMIN FEES ARE. SO YO
HAVE THE RENT INCREASES AND
CHARGES TO THE TENANT. I CAN
TELL YOU THE MANY TENANTS THAT
DO CALL OUR HOTLINE AND THAT W
DO ORGANIZE -- THEY DO WANT TO
PAY THEIR RENT. I THINK THE
LANDLORD SAYS, THEY JUST WANT T
FREE RIDE. I THINK EVERYBODY
WANTS TO PAY THE RENT. WE GET
LOT OF TENANTS CALL ON OUR
HOTLINE. THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS
CASE THAT JUST HAPPENED HERE IN
NOVEMBER WAS $75 A DAY . YOU
KNOW WHAT THE LANDLORD TOLD ME
WHEN I CALLED HIM CONNECT
BECAUSE I ALWAYS GET INTO IT
WITH LANDLORDS. I DON'T REALLY
CARE. YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAID TO
ME? BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PAY
THEIR RENT ON TIME. AND I SAID,
HOW DO YOU CONSCIOUSLY CHARGE
SOMEBODY $75? THAT IS ALMOST TH
EQUAL OF THE RENT THEY ARE
PAYING MONTHLY. THAT IS
OUTRAGEOUS ALREADY. I REMEMBER
-- I GET CREATIVE. WE WILL MAKE
SURE THAT WE LET EVERYBODY KNOW
THAT YOU'RE DOING THIS . YOU
KNOW? I HAVE TO BE CREATIVE AS
DIRECTOR ON HOW WE DEAL WITH
THESE PREDATORY LANDLORDS THAT
DO THIS. FORTUNATELY THEY TOO
THOSE FEES AWAY. BUT THIS SHOUL
NOT BE LIKE THIS FOR ALL TENANT
. THAT IS WHY WE SUPPORT THE CA
ON $10 . AND LIKE EDMUND SAYS,
THERE'S US IN THE COMMUNITY WHO
HEAR THE STORIES DAY IN AND DAY
OUT ON OUR HOTLINE. AND THERE I
ALSO WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT.
EDMUND AND KATE TALKING ABOUT
THIS. SO LET'S PASS THIS. IF
THERE IS ANY OF THE
COUNCILMEMBERS THAT WANT TO ASK
ME QUESTIONS ON THE HOTLINE THA
WE SERVE EVERY DAY , MY NUMBER
IS POSTED ON OUR WEBSITE.
>> [ APPLAUSE ]
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, VIOLET .
THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL BECAUSE
ALL OF YOU IN THE TENANTS UNION
GET TO HEAR FROM MANY RENTERS
AND THAT IS NOT A WINDOW WE GET
A GLIMPSE THROUGH, SO THAT WAS
VERY USEFUL.
>> I JUST WANTED TO --.
>> INTRODUCE YOURSELF FOR THE
RECORD.
>> MY NAME IS KATE RUBIN. I JUS
JUMPED RIGHT INTO IT. WE HAVE
USED THE TERM THAT LANDLORDS
ARE NICKEL AND DIMING US TO
DEATH. I FEEL THAT THAT IS NOT
EVEN AS DESCRIPTIVE AS IT
ACTUALLY IT IS. IT IS NOT
NICKELS AND DIMES. THIS IS
HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS COMING FROM
POOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE
EXTRA HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS TO
PAY. IT IS ACTUALLY TO THE
LANDLORD'S BENEFIT IN MANY OF
THESE SITUATIONS IF THEIR TENAN
IS LATE BECAUSE THERE EARNING S
MUCH EXTRA MONEY. FROM THIS
PERSON'S HARDSHIPS. SO CAPPING
AT $10 A DAY AND ELIMINATING
THESE CREATIVE FEES , SUCH AS
THE NOTICE DELIVERY FEE IS SO
NECESSARY . DURING PUBLIC
COMMENT HOWARD MENTIONED THAT
LANDLORDS ARE GETTING VERY
CREATIVE IN FINDING NEW WAYS T
NICKEL AND DIME THEIR TENANTS O
GET THEM OUT SO THEY CAN PUT
RENTERS IN WHO WILL PAY THREE
TIMES THE RENT. THE RENT
EVICTIONS IS A BIG PROBLEM. SO
WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN
TO PROTECT RENTERS BECAUSE WE
CANNOT RELY UPON THE LANDLORDS
TO MAKE THE ETHICAL DECISION .
DURING PUBLIC COMMENT THERE WAS
ALSO A LANDLORD, GORDON, WHO
MENTIONED -- WHO WAS AGAINST
THIS LEGISLATION BUT MENTIONED
THAT HE HAD ONLY CHARGED ONE
RENTER A LATE FEE IN THE MANY
YEARS THAT HE HAD BEEN A
LANDLORD . I WANT TO SAY, GOOD
FOR YOU, GORDON. NOT ALL
LANDLORDS ARE LIKE THAT. YOU
CANNOT TRUST THEM TO HAVE
EMPATHY . AND CERTAINLY WHEN
THERE ARE THINGS LIKE A LANGUAG
BARRIER, THEY ARE EVEN LESS
UNDERSTANDING TOWARD THEIR
TENANTS. SO WE NEED LEGISLATION
THAT PROTECTS EVERYONE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH , KATE. TH
WHOLE POINT IS TO HAVE LAWS THA
PROTECT RENTERS. NOT HAVING TO
RELY ON THE EMPATHY OF THIS OR
THAT LANDLORD. IN FACT , IF YOU
HAVE SEEN ANYTHING FROM THE
SO-CALLED HOUSING MARKET , YOU
HAVE SEEN THAT IT IS VERY MUCH
LACKING IN EMPATHY TOWARD
RENTERS WHO ARE THE MAJORITY OF
OUR CITY. I HAVE ONE QUESTION
FOR EDMUND AND I WILL KEEP
LOOKING FOR QUESTIONS FROM
COUNCILMEMBERS. PLEASE FEEL FRE
TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE
PANELISTS. WE WON'T GO FOR TOO
LONG BECAUSEPEOPLE HAVE ALREADY
WAITED FOR A WHILE. JUST WANTED
TO ADD ONE THING. OBVIOUSLY TH
MAJORITY OF THE CITY IS RENTING
BUT I WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT
THEY ARE NOT OBVIOUSLY -- A
CRISIS IS THE MOST ACUTE FOR
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE LOWEST
INCOME. SO THAT OFTEN MEANS
REFUGEES AS DR. GARCIA SAID IN
PUBLIC COMMENT . PEOPLE OF MANY
COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, IF YOU
LOOK AT THE EVICTION NUMBERS,
FOR EXAMPLE, IT SHOWS YOU THAT
BLACK WOMEN LEAD HOUSEHOLDS ARE
THE MOST AFFECTED. BUT I WANT T
GIVE A SENSE AND MAKE SURE ALL
COUNCILMEMBERS HAVE A SENSE OF
HOW BIG CRISIS IS FOR PEOPLE IN
GENERAL. WE ARE NO LONGER IN
THIS ECONOMY TALKING ABOUT THE
POOREST PEOPLE . IF YOU LOOK AT
THIS ARTICLE -- TWO ARTICLES.
ONE IS FROM THE WASHINGTON POST
THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN DECEMBER
2018 , WHICH IS TITLED, LIVING
PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK IS A
DISTURBINGLY COMMON . IT IS A
REPORT FROM THE FEDERAL RESERV
AT THAT TIME . THE REASON I'M
USING THIS IS BECAUSE I'M GOING
TO ALSO USE A REPORT THAT IS
MORE RECENT. THIS IS EVEN BEFOR
THE PANDEMIC AND RECESSION AT
THAT TIME. IT IS FROM 2018. IT
SAYS FOUR IN 10 ADULTS SAID
THEY COULD NOT PRODUCE $400 IN
AN EMERGENCY WITHOUT SLIDING
INTO DEBT OR SELLING SOMETHING.
THIS IS FROM 2017 DATA. THE
POINT ABOUT THIS IS, WHO ARE W
TALKING ABOUT? WERE TALKING
ABOUT PROFESSORS, REAL ESTATE
AGENTS THEMSELVES. THESE ARE
NOT BIG LANDLORDS BUT PEOPLE
WORKING IN THE MARKET BECAUSE
THEY NEED A JOB. FARMERS,
BUSINESS EXECUTIVES, COMPUTER
PROGRAMMERS, STORE CLERKS. THE
ARTICLE SAYS, WHAT DO YOU THINK
ALL THESE PEOPLE HAVE IN COMMON
THEY ARE LIVING PAYCHECK TO
PAYCHECK. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
PEOPLE IN VERY PRECARIOUS
SITUATIONS. THIS IS A LOT OF
PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES.
FAST FORWARD TO FEBRUARY 8,
2023. THIS IS AN ARTICLE FROM
THE SEATTLE TIMES IN WHICH HE
TALKS ABOUT AN INTERNATIONAL
NEWSWIRE ARTICLE IN WHICH THEY
LOOK AT DATA IN 2022. THIS IS
BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS DATA
THAT FOUND THAT GIVEN THE COST
OF LIVING CRISIS, THE INFLATION
RATE THAT IS PREVALENT , THE
NEW STUDY HAS FOUND THAT MORE
PEOPLE ARE HAVING TO SPEND ALL
OF THEIR INCOME ON NECESSITIES
AND THEY ARE COUNTING ON THEM T
MEET THE COSTS THEY INCUR UNTIL
THEN. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT --
LOOK AT THE NUMBERS. 64% OF
AMERICANS , ACCORDING TO THIS
STUDY, WILL BE LIVING PAYCHECK
TO PAYCHECK BY THE END OF THIS
YEAR. THIS IS 64% OF THE
RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY
OF HUMANITY. THIS IS THE EXTEN
AND DEPTH OF THE CRISIS WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT. I JUST WANTED TO
UNDERSCORE ONE OTHER POINT IN
RELATION TO THIS. WE ARE ALSO
IN A PERIOD WHERE THERE ARE
MASSIVE TECH LAYOFFS. WE'RE
GOING TO SEE PEOPLE WHO WE
OTHERWISE MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT AS
COMFORTABLY LIVING WITH
SIX-FIGURE SALARIES OR VERY GOO
SALARIES -- MANY OF THEM ARE
GETTING LAID OFF RIGHT NOW, BUT
MORE ARE GOING TO BE LAID OFF I
THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. META-JUST
ANNOUNCE THEY ARE GOING TO BE
DOING A BIG ROUND OF LAYOFFS
NEXT MONTH IN APRIL. SO WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT A BIG PROPORTION
OF THE POPULATION OF RENTERS
THAT IS GOING TO BE SUFFERING.
AND WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO
ELIMINATE ALL OF THESE THINGS.
ULTIMATELY THE PROBLEM IS THE
SKYROCKETING RENT. THAT IS THE
PROBLEM. WE ARE NOT EVEN
ADDRESSING THAT. THIS IS A SMAL
PIECE OF THE PUZZLE SO I HOPE
COUNCILMEMBERS WILL TAKE INTO
ACCOUNT HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS T
DO. THE OTHER POINT I WANTED TO
MENTION IS THANKS TO ADAM
JANKOWSKI IN MY OFFICE , HE DID
A BIT OF VERY SIMPLE MATH AND
SAID, IF YOUR RENT IS MORE THA
$666 PER MONTH, THEN 1.5% IS
GOING TO BE MORE THAN $10. SO
FOR EVERYBODY IN SEATTLE WHO IS
RENTING -- IF YOUR RENT IS MOR
THAN $666 A MONTH , THEN A $10
FLAT RATE OF LATE FEES IS GOIN
TO BE MUCH MORE PROGRESSIVE THA
ANYTHING -- PERCENTAGE. I
THINK THAT IS VERY USEFUL. IT
IS VERY SIMPLE. YOU CAN DO THE
MATH. RENTERS, IF YOU'RE
WATCHING THIS, YOU SHOULD DO TH
MATH. 1.5% FOR YOU WILL BE.
VIRTUALLY NOBODY HAS THAT RENT.
YOU WILL BE PAYING MORE THAN
$10. I THINK IT IS A VERY
STRONG ARGUMENT MATHEMATICALLY
FOR THE LEGISLATION . ONE
QUESTION FOR EDMUND IS, HOW D
LATE FEES AFFECT THE CREDIT
SCORE OF RENTERS, IF IN ANY
WAY?
>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.
IT'S ALSO A QUESTION WE DON'T
KNOW THE FULL ANSWER TO. FIRST
OF ALL, ANY DEBT YOU OWE CAN
ALWAYS BE REPORTED TO A DEBT
COLLECTOR OR CONSUMER REPORT IN
ANY WAY. WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS
TO THE EXTENT TO WHICH A LOT O
NATIONAL CORPORATIONS, PROPERTY
MANAGEMENT COMPANIES, HAVE
COLLECTED THAT DATA ON THEIR OW
AND SET UP THEIR OWN INTERNAL
DATABASES THEY ALLOW PEOPLE TO
SUBSCRIBE TO. FOR EXAMPLE, WE
WILL HAVE A RENTER RENTING IN
SEATTLE 10 YEARS AGO OR FIVE
YEARS AGO FALL BEHIND ON THEIR
RENT. A LOT OF LATE CHARGES
THAT ACCRUE TO. THEY WILL THEN
CALL US BECAUSE THEY HAVE SINCE
MOVED TO GEORGIA AND THEY ARE
SAYING ALL THIS INFORMATION THE
HAVE FOUND FROM FIVE YEARS AGO
IN SEATTLE IS NOW BEING REPORTE
THERE AND THEY CANNOT FIND
HOUSING IN GEORGIA. THIS IS
ACTUALLY A BIGGER TREND OVER TH
LAST 15 YEARS, WHICH GENERALLY
WE HAVE SEEN A LOT MORE DATA
COLLECTION OF RENTERS EVERY TIM
. DO YOU PAY YOUR RENT ON TIME?
WE SEEM TO SEE TECH TAKE OVER
THE REAL ESTATE MARKET AND
PROPERTY MANAGEMENT. A LOT OF
TENANTS FIND THEMSELVES SHUT OU
BECAUSE OF ONE BAD CIRCUMSTANCE
SO IT OBVIOUSLY HAS AN IMPACT
ON YOUR CREDIT SCORE AND YOUR
CONSUMER REPORT. THE EXTENT OF
THAT INFORMATION BEING GATHERED
AND USED IN OTHER WAYS IS ALMOS
AN INDUSTRY SECRET AT THAT
POINT.
>> THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING
THAT.
>> SORRY, PRESIDENT JUAREZ OR
DID YOU MEAN TO SPEAK?
>> NO. SORRY. I'M GOOD.
>> I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER
QUESTIONS FROM COUNCILMEMBERS.
DO OUR PANELISTS HAVE ANY MORE
SHOTS TO SHARE?
>> I GUESS MY HOPE TODAY IS
THAT THIS LEGISLATION GOES
THROUGH. AND I THINK IT IS
THINKING ABOUT -- EVERYONE IS
THINKING ABOUT THE INS AND OUTS
WE ARE AGAINST THE LANDLORDS. I
ACTUALLY PROTECTS A LOT OF THE
FAMILIES. MOSTLY BELOW POVERTY.
$10 IS ACTUALLY A HUGE NUMBER T
PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING INCOME
OF THREE OR $400. I WANT YOU T
SEE THE PICTURE OF THAT. I CAME
TODAY TO SHARE A LOT OF STORIE
ABOUT THESE FEES. AND WHAT IT
DOES IS, YOU GET BEHIND ON REN
FOR YOUR CHARGE TO THESE FEES
AND IT ACTUALLY PUSHES YOU BACK
TO WHERE IT IS A HUGE EFFECT
AND IT LEADS TO EVICTION. IT
DOES. IT REALLY DOES. AND I
THINK WE HAVE TO SEE THE
UGLINESS OF THESE FEES. SO I
WANTED JUST TO SHARE THAT.
>> I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT TO
KNOW THEY COULD ACTUALLY LEAD
TO EVICTION BECAUSE IF YOU ARE
NOT ABLE TO PAY ALL THIS
ACCUMULATED AMOUNT PLUS YOUR
RENT , NONPAYMENT OF RENT IS
OBVIOUSLY THE MOST COMMON
REASON FOR PEOPLE TO GET
EVICTED. SO THERE IS A
CONNECTION. ULTIMATELY WHETHER
YOU ARE PAYING RENT OR A LATE
FEE, IT IS COMING FROM THE SAME
WHICH IS YOUR MEAGER PAYCHECK.
IN FACT, WANTED TO SHARE QUICKL
-- YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A
COMMUNITY PETITION WHERE PEOPLE
CAN SAY THAT THEY SUPPORT THIS
AND ALSO SHARE THEIR OWN STORY.
IN FACT, ONE OF THE STORIES IS
FROM A RECIPIENT OF SOCIAL
SECURITY AND RETIREMENT BENEFIT
AND THIS IS A PERSON WHO EXISTS
ON THOSE DOLLARS, WHICH
OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW ARE NOT FAR
FROM LAVISH. THEY SAY THEIR REN
IS DUE ON THE FIRST OF EACH
MONTH. THIS SETS THEM UP FOR
PERPETUAL LATE FEE . AND THEY
SAY , I HAVE ASKED SEVERAL TIME
TO CHANGE MY DUE DATE TO THE
15th, BUT IT IS NOT BEING
CHANGED. THEY SAY THAT THIS
MEANS THAT I AM ALWAYS HAVING
LATE FEES. IN FACT THEY SAY THE
ESTIMATE THEY HAVE PAID OVER
$3600 IN LATE FEES SO FAR ALL
BECAUSE THE LANDLORD WON'T EVEN
ACCEPT A MIDMONTH PAYMENT AS A
ON-TIME PAYMENT. THIS ALSO
ANSWERS THE QUESTION THAT WE
HAVE HEARD ACTUALLY FROM SOME
LANDLORDS WHO ARE OPPOSING THIS
LEGISLATION. THEY SAY , WHY
DON'T TENANTS JUST NEGOTIATE
TERMS WITH THE LANDLORD? WELL,
THERE YOU GO. EVEN WHEN THEY AR
ASKING TO HAVE A DIFFERENT KIN
OF ARRANGEMENT, THEY ARE NOT
GETTING IT.
>> TOTALLY. I AM GLAD YOU
BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE
LANDLORDS WILL SAY , WE WILL
NEGOTIATE WITH YOUR LANDLORD.
THEY HAVE. THAT IS THE FIRST
THING THEY DO. NEGOTIATE. I
CAN'T PAY THIS. DO YOU HAVE
THESE LANDLORDS . THERE ARE SOM
GOOD LANDLORDS THAT I HAVE MET,
BUT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH IN THE
STATE OF WASHINGTON. MOSTLY IN
SEATTLE. I SAY THAT BECAUSE I'M
ON THE HOTLINE AND HEARING FRO
MOSTLY THE BLACK AND BROWN
COMMUNITIES WHO ARE FEELING
THIS. OUR MOST MARGINALIZED AND
VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES THAT
FEEL THE SPIRIT OF THESE FEES
PEOPLE THINK IS JUST $10. IT
ACTUALLY IS A HUGE DEAL TO OUR
BELOW POVERTY TENANTS FOR
PEOPLE WHO LIVE SOMETIMES ON
THE STREET. YOU KNOW? SO, YEAH
>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU, ALL,
PANELISTS, FOR SHARING YOUR
THOUGHTS AND INSIGHTS. BOTH
RENTERS AND RENTERS' RIGHTS
ACTIVISTS. I REALLY APPRECIATE
IT. WE WILL AS I MENTIONED BRIN
THIS LEGISLATION FOR ABOUT AT
OUR NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING ON
APRIL 7th. I WOULD REALLY
REQUEST ALL THE PANELISTS WHO
ARE HERE TODAY TO BE AVAILABLE
FOR THAT COMMITTEE MEETING. I'M
SURE THERE WILL BE MORE
QUESTIONS THEN. I REALLY
APPRECIATE YOU ALL BEING THERE
APRIL 7th IF YOU CAN COME. BE
HERE BY 9:00 AND IT WILL START
AT 9:30. YOU'RE FREE TO STAY OR
GO DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU HAVE
GOING ON IN YOUR DAY. REALLY
APPRECIATE ALL THIS TIME. YOU
HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY GENEROUS
AND IT HAS BEEN EXTREMELY
HELPFUL. THANK YOU,
COUNCILMEMBERS, FOR ASKING
QUESTIONS. BEFORE COUNCILMEMBER
GO AND WE ADJOURN, WE HAVE ONE
OTHER QUICK AGENDA ITEM, WHICH
IS APPOINTMENT 02498.
APPOINTMENT OF SCHNIDINE AS
SEATTLE COMMISSION ON FEBRUAR
28, 2024. THIS IS AN EXECUTIVE
APPOINTMENT. IT IS JUST US
TALKING ABOUT THIS NOMINATION
FROM THE COMMITTEE. AND
SCHNIDINE ALREADY INTRODUCE
THEMSELVES AND IT WAS REALLY
USEFUL TO HEAR HER THOUGHTS ON
THIS APPOINTMENT. AND I CAN
JUST ADD THAT , AS SHE SAID, SH
IS A LEGAL SPECIALIST WITH AN
INTEREST IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT
POLICIES. AS A RENTER SHE HAS
SEEN HOW SHOCKINGLY EXPENSIVE
HOUSING HAS BECOME. SHE HAS
VOLUNTEERED BECAUSE SHE WOULD
LIKE TO BE PART OF ADVOCATING
FOR POLICIES TO DEFEND THE
INTERESTS OF RENTERS. AND WE
ALREADY HEARD IN HER OWN WORDS
HOW SHE WOULD LIKE TO USE HER
POSITION. SO IF COUNCILMEMBERS
ARE OKAY, I WILL MOVE
APPOINTMENT 02498 FOR A VOTE.
>> SECOND.
>> THANK YOU.
>> TED, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
>> COUNCILMEMBER SAWANT. IT'S
BEEN A GUESS.
>> COUNCILMEMBER JUAREZ.
COUNCILMEMBER MORALES.
>> YES.
>> COUNCILMEMBER LEWIS.
>> FOUR IN FAVOR.
>> THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBERS,
FOR THAT VOTE. THAT WILL NOW GO
TO THE FULL COUNCIL ON MARCH 28
FOR A FINAL VOTE. I REALLY
APPRECIATE YOU STAYING HERE. I
WAS A SLIGHTLY LONGER COMMITTEE
BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS A LOT T
GET INTO . AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR
ALL THE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS
WE WILL BE BACK ON APRIL 7th AT
9:30 A.M.. MEETING ADJOURNED.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, PRESIDENT JUAREZ