♪♪
-Hello, I'm your host, Brian Callanan.
State lawmakers passed a so-called
Parents' Bill of Rights last year to give parents more access
to their child's school records,
including medical and criminal information.
But an effort to amend the bill this year
has put Olympia in the center of a nationwide debate.
In 2024, the State House and Senate
agreed to pass Initiative 2081, a so-called Bill of Rights,
providing parents more access to school records,
what proponents saw as a healthy connection between parents
and their students.
-Keeping parents and children close together
is best for families and for kids.
-But Democrats and the state Superintendent of Schools
say the new measure needs to be amended to align
with existing state and federal laws on child privacy.
-Since its passage,
Initiative 2081 has created a lot of confusion and concern
for students, educators, and our school staff.
-Plus, advocates say the bill could force kids
who've confided in their teachers
about their gender identity, for example,
to out themselves to their parents.
-We're at greater risks of suicide and self-harm.
And without a supportive environment,
these risks grow exponentially.
-We risk alienating families at a time
when engagement is more critical than ever.
-But 2081 supporters say the amendments
in the House and Senate
are essentially rolling back a Bill of Rights measure
that 450,000 petition signers in the state supported.
-It is taking a sledgehammer to democracy.
-And 2081 supporters have gained sympathy
from national conservative voices
as this issue escalates in our state capital.
-Parents want to know and have a right to know.
-What's the future of the so-called
Parents' Bill of Rights?
-Parents are being treated increasingly
as public enemy Number 1.
-The Parental Bill of Rights language is vague.
It's unclear.
-You'll hear from both sides.
Next, on "City Inside/Out."
♪♪
Thanks for joining us once again here on
"City Inside/Out" on the Seattle Channel.
I'm Brian Callanan.
And I have with me two people with some different opinions
on the plan to amend the so-called Parents' Bill of Rights,
which the legislature passed last year, I-2081.
First, Tyler Crone is a public health advocate,
parent, and lawyer
who previously served as the founding director
of the ATHENA Network,
an organization dedicated to gender equality,
human rights, and global health.
Tyler, thanks a lot for being here.
-Thank you.
-We also have with us Vicki Murray,
who is the director for the Center of Education
and the Paul W. Locke Research Fellow for Education
at the Washington Policy Center,
a nonprofit that promotes public policy based
on free market solutions.
Vicki, good to have you here, too.
-Thank you.
Great to be here. -Thanks. Let's get into this.
Tyler, I wanted to get your take on the Parents' Bill of Rights.
So many people have been talking about this in Olympia,
as it's going through some changes here.
Give us an overview of what you would like
to see come out of this legislative session and why.
-Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Vicki, I'm so delighted to be in conversation with you.
And Brian, I'm so thankful
that you are shedding light on an opportunity
for us to talk about our shared values of having kids
who are safe, healthy, happy, thriving in our schools,
of having educators being able to educate,
having parents being able to partner with schools.
So I think that there are so many shared values
that we come to this question with.
There are two aspects that I'll look at this from, of one,
just being a parent.
I've been a parent in our public schools in Seattle since 2008.
And the other hat is a little bit more
that kind of policy advocacy.
What is the landscape like around parental rights
and what is this movement really representing?
And so when I look at this legislative session,
I look to the Parental Bill of Rights
that was an initiative last year
that was a cut-and-paste effort from language in Louisiana.
And I think that if we look at
where a Parental Bill of Rights movement is going nationally,
there's a way in which
we have to look to what makes sense in each state,
what makes sense in terms of the legal framework in each state,
and also what is behind this movement.
I'll put that to the side for just a moment...
-Okay. -...and be a mom.
-All right. -For this legislative session,
the Parental Bill of Rights language is vague.
It's unclear.
Some of it is contradictory with the legal protections
we have in our state for people to be free,
and to be free of discrimination,
and to be able to go to school with a disability
and be safe, and be welcomed, and included.
And I also look at that as the parent of a child
who has been very happily involved in a community group
for students of South and Central American descent.
I look at that as the parent of a child
who is transgender
and who transitioned in elementary school.
And how are we ensuring that our schools are welcoming?
And so, for me,
I'm really keen for us to reassert our values
in Washington state where we come together and...
-Okay.
-...what we believe that we're putting in our protections
so that folks are free of discrimination,
students can show up whatever their background is.
And then the last piece that concerns me of
where we need to go as the state legislature this year,
is to make sure our students and our teachers,
particularly our teachers, are safe to welcome students
however they show up in their classroom.
And that's the piece, I think in the House Bill,
that there's a lot of conversation around,
of protecting teachers from retaliation.
-Okay. Hold that thought.
I know you have a lot of them
and I want to make sure we hear from Vicki here.
Just tell us about maybe your concerns
about amending the Bill of Rights
and some of the thoughts you have about that, please.
-Well, I think, first, we have to step back,
because you start talking about this issue,
and it's not just in Washington.
Washington is the -- there --
half the states in the country
now have a Parents' Bill of Rights.
And likely after this legislative session,
there are going to be a whole lot more.
Even before we got into a Parents' Bill of Rights,
I think Arizona was the first one
to actually enact one in 2010.
Two-thirds of states already across the country
have statutes and/or legal precedents
that actually have what's called a standard strict scrutiny,
which is, you know,
very exacting that acts as a sort of Parents' Bill of Rights.
So I think we have to step back, take a breath,
because it's gotten very heated national attention.
-Yep.
-This is just a transparency bill for parents
that does two things.
Number 1, it just -- it doesn't give parents new rights.
It just affirms fundamental rights they already had.
You have access to what's going on
in your children's classrooms.
And Number 2, you get notified about stuff.
And I think anyone
who's a parent at the beginning of the school year,
you know what it's like.
Children come home with it looks like, you know,
something along the line of...
-Three-ring binder. Yeah. Sure. Right. Yeah.
-...three-ring binder of things you have to sign.
-Sure. -So this is not something new.
People -- you know, emotions are running high,
but this is -- that's no way to make a policy.
So I think we have to stand back and see what it really does,
and see what's really at stake instead of --
you know, let's not be fearful.
Let's look at what the bill actually --
the initiative actually does.
-All right.
Thank you for breaking it down that way.
I want to talk about some of the different changes proposed
in the bill seeking to amend 2081.
This is what the legislature is dealing with right now.
I want to focus first on the medical health
and mental health records at schools.
So the original initiative said,
let's give parents access to those records
within 10 days of request
and require schools to notify parents
when medical services are offered or provided to kids.
The amended versions in the House and Senate
are saying parents can have access to education records
like attendance, discipline, and so forth.
But the bills would remove this medical services part
because that's available through other state disclosure laws.
That's a lot of Democrats who are pushing this are saying.
Vicki, I know supporters of this change
are saying it's about protecting student privacy,
which has been part of state and federal law for decades here.
What's your take on this medical part of the bill, please?
-Well, the medical bill, we have to --
first we have to recognize
that parents already have certain rights in law
and children already have -- for example, children
who are LGBTQ already are a protected class in Washington.
So again, we have to step back. That's nothing that's an issue.
We can't have contradictory laws.
However, what we do have to keep in mind
is that everyone at this table wants to keep children safe.
I bet everybody wants...
-Of course. -...to keep children safe.
For nine -- the vast majority of parents,
that's the vehicle for keeping children safe. 98% or better.
-Okay.
-We do, sadly, have children
who are in exceptional circumstances.
And it's nothing we'd wish. It's the -- you know,
the parent-child relationship is one
of the most natural relationships in creation,
but that has broken down for whatever reason,
children aren't safe because of their parents.
-Right. -There's no conflict here.
There is a way where you can protect parents' rights,
the primary folks responsible for keeping children safe,
while also having --
there are at least half a dozen legal exceptions and protections
we could have for children
who are in those exceptional circumstances.
We don't have to throw out one or the other.
So I think we have to stop this binary thinking.
-Okay.
Can you talk to me, Tyler, if you could, about this?
Just your take on this,
because I think there's some concerns about, certainly,
kids who are transgender being outed by their teachers
and things of that nature to their parents.
Maybe some situations
where that parent-student relationship is not strong.
I want you to talk about this
and I guess your just concerns about this medical part.
-So, one, in Washington State,
we have a different framework
by which young people are able to secure care
and secure mental health care.
And so if we wanted to change those parameters,
let's ask that bigger question and change that framework.
In terms of the school setting piece and access
to medical records,
I'll pull back the lens and look historically for a minute.
When I was in graduate school in public health school
in the 1990s,
the emergency that our surgeon general, David Satcher,
talked about was the high rates of teenage pregnancy.
And there have been decades of effort since then
to embed services in schools and high schools.
And so many of, for example, in Seattle,
many of our public health --
our public high schools have clinics...
-Yep. -...embedded in them.
And so students are able to freely go and get services,
and they're able to get information,
and education, and ask an adult questions
who is an expert in these areas.
So there's been a lot of important gains
for the wellbeing and the health of our young people
by matching up and embedding health services
in our high schools
that I think starts to get funny
with this Parental Bill of Rights
and access to those medical records,
because that would be a different standard
than we have across the board. -Okay.
-And the piece that I wanted to make it
a little bit more personal around is, one,
this issue that sometimes in a person's family,
it's the family that's not safe, right?
A parent is not always the safe person one can go to.
Harm can happen in the family
and you need to be able to have a trusted adult
to bring that to.
And so I think that there's a way
in which creating confusion around this
enables folks to be uncertain to teachers, and educators,
and counselors not to know how to show up for the student.
But I'll go even more granular.
In our personal family's journey,
my daughter was sexually assaulted at age 16
between her -- right before her junior year and...
-Thank you for sharing that.
I'm very sorry to hear that.
-...and she has been open and has spoken about this,
but what was key for her journey of recovery
was being able to safely access care at her school setting.
-Yeah.
-And she made a decision that even though
we were in active conversation about this,
she wanted to get STI testing, she wanted to talk to people,
she wanted to have that control over her healing journey.
And so it made a big difference...
-Okay.
-...that that was available in a school setting.
If we start to create uncertainty and confusion
around the confidentiality of this
that isn't coherent across the standard in the state,
that's where question marks happen.
-I got you.
Vicki, it feels like you're trying to get to
some sort of middle ground here
in terms of what you said earlier
where potentially you're able to protect people
who are in these protected classes like transgender people,
but also respect parents.
Can you talk more about that?
And I don't want you to do the legislature's job,
but I feel like you might be here.
How do you get to that point to answer some of these concerns
that Tyler has brought up?
-Well, I think, Tyler, one of the primary reasons
that states have increasingly been adopting
Parent Bills of Rights is
because school rights and responsibilities,
parents' rights and responsibilities,
medical records are just scattered all throughout
state statute, not to mention throughout federal statutes.
-Okay.
-And if you've ever, you know, tried to read that,
you could go cross-eyed with it.
And it also becomes complicated when you're dealing with,
are you going to a family medical provider,
or you do it on site, third party,
it can get very confusing.
One of the biggest strengths of a Parents' Bill of Rights
is you can actually put it on a school district website
or a charter school website.
And, ah, here we go.
Everybody can be on the same page.
That's one of, I think,
the strongest arguments in favor of a Parents' Bill of Rights
because it takes all these question marks
and it erases them.
And something else I would add
that I'm particularly excited about
for Washington is we're a local control state.
So I've heard of it -- and I come from a local control state.
And if I could share this,
we went through a similar, you know, debates in Arizona.
-Yeah.
-And a superintendent of one of the largest school districts
in the United States of America shared confidentially with me.
And this school district was located
in a particularly conservative, traditional...
-Okay.
-...area that having local control
was so critically important to developing policy.
So I'd say use that.
You know what the laws are,
and you can craft policy that works for children
in your communities.
-Thank you for that.
But what about this part where parents are bad actors?
I mean, can you talk to me about that piece?
-Yes.
-Because I just don't know
how you're able to jive that with what I'm seeing currently
in 2081, the original version.
-There are lots of things that we can already do because,
for example, if parents are bad actors,
they are already prohibited in state law
from receiving anything about children,
accessing medical records, reports.
That's already in statute.
What we could do -- I find it interesting
that many of the same lawmakers
who supported 2081 last year are now saying,
"Oh, we have concerns."
That's a technical correction. -Okay.
-We can make sure that LGBTQ children
and other children who are at risk
could be included in those protections.
That's a tweak.
-Okay.
Do you see that middle ground there, Tyler?
I just want to make sure about you.
-I guess what I'm --
I guess the thing that I'm confused about,
and I think that there is a process, for example,
that Senator Claire Wilson and Representative Monica Stonier
have brought forward to align the Parental Bill of Rights
legislation with the state framework.
And so that's, you know, when --
if you do the plain reading of what has been
in the House Bill, it just --
-If I may... -Yeah.
-...House Bill 1296, Senate Bill 5181.
Keep going. -Yes.
But in the House Bill,
it is just taking that framework,
articulating the student rights as well,
plus saying that our teachers, you know,
putting in new language around keeping our teachers safe
from retaliation so that they can create safe, affirming,
loving classrooms and do what they do best, which is teach.
So... -Okay.
-...I guess what I'm not understanding, Vicki,
is what issue you have if we're talking about
how are we making this easier for families to understand,
and parents to partner with their teachers,
and us to create safe and welcoming schools
that are free of discrimination,
where kids can be kids, and thrive, and excel,
and have the opportunity to feel welcome.
Like I guess I'm not understanding what
your concern is with an effort to just bring that
in line with our state laws,
and to reaffirm our students' opportunities and safety,
you know, kind of that safety
for teachers to not face retaliation.
-Please.
-Well, I do have to step back
and say it's kind of stunning how we started over here with,
we're just affirming the rights that parents have always had.
-Okay.
-Because, let's face it, over the past decade,
not just in Washington,
but across the country, parents were --
the National School Boards Association wanted
parents put on a terrorist watch list.
-Okay.
-I mean, parents are being treated increasingly
as Public Enemy Number 1.
Whereas previously, schools used to be act in loco parentis.
That was a position of eminent trust.
Now, it's been flipped on its head
where it's an entitlement that others --
everybody else has a right to other people's children,
but parents are left out in the dark.
So this is a rebalancing effort to make sure
that parents' efforts are affirmed.
And these sorts of -- forgive me, Tyler --
teachers are going to be assaulted,
this is -- these doomsday scenarios,
I would ask one question.
We have had Parents' Bills of Rights for at least 15 years.
Statute goes back even longer. -Yeah.
-I'm a professional researcher.
I couldn't find a single solitary instance
of actual harm done to a child,
done to a student as a result of Parents' Bills of Rights.
-Okay.
-These are -- again, let's step back from fear.
-Yeah. -And what does it really do?
-Okay. A quick rejoinder, if you could.
Yeah. -Yeah. No, no.
I'm just -- one,
I think it would be really interesting to write,
again, here the states that you're citing
and what examples you're looking to
because I think that the kind of norms, rights,
freedoms, values that we hold here in Washington State --
for example, I grew up in South Carolina,
are very different than in Louisiana.
And so it seems obvious to me
that if you took a cut-and-paste from Louisiana
and brought it to Washington State,
that there would be --
-Okay. -No. I'm going to push back.
I'm going to push back because --
-So I'm just curious where your success stories,
like which states you're talking about.
But I think that's moving also off of
where we are in Washington and --
-Briefly, if you could -- -No.
-I'd love to move on. -This isn't a cut-and-paste.
Again, I think what states do,
and that's the beauty of federalism,
is that you look to the best and you discard the rest.
-Okay. -This is not a cut-and-paste.
In fact, this bill is markedly different from Arizona's,
Florida's and, you know, nearly the two dozen more --
Ohio's was just passed.
-Okay.
-So these are all different
because every state is different.
However, Washington exceptionalism
does not make it okay to base policy on something
that's fearful when you've given --
there have been no tangible examples
from Parents' Bills of Rights and children being less safe.
-Can I make sure I guide this discussion in another way?
-I'm not sure where this is going.
-Okay.
Well, I do want to make sure that I bring back to --
-So I'd love to figure out how to bring it back to Washington.
-We've been talking a little bit about these health issues,
and then there are some criminal case notices here
that need to be pulled apart here too.
So Initiative 2081
originally said parents should receive immediate notification
if their child is questioned by law enforcement
or if a crime has been committed against them.
The House Bill, the Senate Bill are talking about amending that,
saying parents should be notified
at the first opportunity.
But in all cases, 48 hours,
which aligns with a bipartisan state law from 2004 on this.
This revision definitely got some pushback,
didn't survive in the Senate,
appears to be still alive in the House.
And I just wanted to talk about this piece with you, Vicki,
if I could,
because I think what I've heard from a number
of state Democrats is they don't want to get in the way
of an investigation by law enforcement when it's happening.
That's why they want to give at least some space there.
Can you respond to that piece of it?
Because I think that's what they're trying to do here
and have that, again, align with state law.
-Well, see, I think this is
where the local control is so important
because you can make...
-Local control for the school district, you're saying?
-...for the school district... -Okay.
-...because there is room for prudence.
Obviously, if a police officer's saying,
"Hey, we need some time
because there's an exigent circumstance going on,"
we know, of course.
However, those are exigent circumstances.
If you're a parent
and your child is involved in anything involving
law enforcement unless you are a parent who, you know, do not --
as state law, you don't have access, you can bet --
I think this would actually protect folks at school,
because I got to tell you,
imagine as a parent you weren't contacted...
-Right. -Hit the roof.
-Well, and that's what the state law from 2004 says.
It says school districts need to talk to parents
at the first opportunity...
-Yes. -...or 48 hours.
So I just don't -- that's the part of it
that I think a lot of people
are having trouble understanding here.
This immediately point,
if there is a situation with law enforcement,
maybe they do need that extra time.
-And there would be -- there are exceptions to that.
-Okay.
-But immediately, I've got to tell you, your --
our default should be set to you notify parents immediately.
-Of course.
-If there's any question, notify the parents.
And so I think what is very concerning,
particularly given in Seattle
with so many reports of horrific crimes against children...
-Yeah.
-...being alleged, we need to default to immediately.
Yes, let's stop making the exception the rule
or preventing sound public policy from happening...
-Okay. -...but immediately,
yes, that's the expectation for most reasonable people.
I turn over my child to you.
I trust my child to you.
Something happens,
you're going to get in touch with me immediately.
-And I think that's what the state law says.
Do you have any take on this, Tyler?
-I do not. -Okay.
-But I'm finding a --
-It feels there's some --
-It feels that there's a --
-They're [indistinct] with the medical issue a bit. Yeah.
-It feels like we're making a mountain out of a molehill.
I think that there are folks
who are in public safety first response
understand the technicalities of this
that could be guiding and informing our state policy
and our schools on best practice.
And that's not my area of expertise.
-Okay. -But I am -- you know,
I think that there are questions here
that I'm still struggling to reconcile of --
and maybe you'll guide us back into this conversation
because we're talking about --
you're talking about states that model success.
And I'd love to, you know,
if we had more time and a longer day to align that
with where families like mine and kids like mine,
parents of trans kids and trans young people
are being criminalized.
And so I do think
that without getting into the deep technicality of which state
you're talking about as... -Okay.
-...success, it's hard to have a conversation nationally.
And so I think bringing it back here to Washington
and figuring out how we are making sure
that all of our kids are safe to learn in school
and that our teacher can't be sued
because my first grader felt safe enough
to draw a skirt in their self-portrait...
-Okay.
-Right? -Okay.
-So I do think that that clarifying
that our legislators are doing is important work...
-Okay.
-...because it is confusing times.
And it... -Yeah.
-...seems to me
that you're saying two things of like don't go doomsday and fear.
And then you're telling me terrible things
are happening to kids.
And then you're telling me that it's all okay
and we should be fine.
So I want to partner with schools
and ensure the success of our kids.
Yes.
-And thank you for bringing up what you said about time
because we're just about out of it, of course.
And we've had a good conversation here, I think,
and I know there's a lot more to it,
but if I could, Vicki, ask you to wrap up here,
because I think a lot of lawmakers are listening to this.
They're hearing some of the different things
that are being said on social media
nationally by the president,
by Ted Cruz, the Senator from Texas.
And so I'm trying to whittle it down
to what you would like to say to them.
I mean, we even have Brian Haywood,
who was the original sponsor of this, saying,
"I'm going to file an initiative
to stop this even before the state passes it,"
which is a little strange.
We'll see where that goes.
But I just wanted that last thought, if you could.
What do you want to say to legislators here?
I can give you a minute. Please.
-I think that legislators should take a big cue
from the fact that this is one of the most popular initiatives
that has ever happened in the history of the state
in terms of how many signatures there were.
Going back to at least 1973, this initiative was Number 5.
So there is...
-Close to 450,000 signatures --
-Yes, exactly. So there is a demand for it.
This isn't, you know, a flash in the pan.
So I think that -- and what the people of Washington want
is the version they passed.
And I'm actually quite concerned that, are we for democracy
or are we only for democracy
when we get the result we and our friends like?
That, to me, is chilling. -Okay.
-So I think we follow where it is.
Use our local control to,
you know, make sure all children are safe
in those exceptional circumstances.
And we already have protection on the books
where parents can't go
and threaten teachers and all of this.
-Okay. All right. Thank you for that.
Some final thoughts for lawmakers,
again, in light of the fact that this was a very popular measure
when it went out with petition signers,
450,000 people nearly signed it.
Just some last thoughts for legislators.
I can give you a minute, Tyler.
-Absolutely. Thank you so much.
I very much appreciate the opportunity to think together
with both of you and also
the work that our legislators are doing about
how we're ensuring our schools are safe, thriving,
welcoming of all students from a diversity of backgrounds
with different lived experiences,
having the chance to expand their horizons,
but also, particularly how we are holding --
You brought up where the president is
and what this moment is.
You know, the president has in his cross-hairs
families like mine and kids like mine
and saying that we shouldn't get to exist,
saying that families like mine
shouldn't get to make healthcare decisions about our kids,
that kids like ours shouldn't be able to go to the bathroom
in public or get a passport. And that's deeply troubling.
So I do think that there requires a higher level
of consideration and scrutiny from our lawmakers in Olympia
who have been elected by us to uphold
and consider the framework
and how we reconcile these pieces together
so that our teachers can meet our kids where they are
and do what they do best, educate, and our kids,
particularly our kids who are different,
have a chance to feel like they belong and are safe.
Thank you. -Okay.
Thank you both for this input here.
And we will be right back.
What are people saying on social media about the debate
over the Parents' Bill of Rights in Olympia?
One person writes...
Another person comments...
We'd like to know what you think.
Send us an email at contact@seattlechannel.org
or find us on social media.
Good to hear those opinions.
And Vicki and Tyler,
thank you very much for your input as well.
And we will see you next time on "City Inside/Out."
♪♪