♪♪
-Hello. I'm your host, Brian Callanan.
National Guard troops have been deployed
to protests in Los Angeles
against the will of local and state officials.
Could the same thing happen in Seattle?
Plus, a member of the Seattle City Council
has abruptly resigned,
the second time that's happened in less than six months.
What does that mean for the Council?
I'm talking with Councilmembers
Joy Hollingsworth and Maritza Rivera
about these questions, and the ones you're sending in, too,
next on "Council Edition."
-We put our gay community in a very tough position.
We put our officers in a tough position.
Like, we -- It was logistically kind of a nightmare.
-We cannot oversimplify this issue.
We need the more housing,
but we need the permitting to go faster
for whatever is being built,
with the infrastructure needs to be in place.
-All that and more, coming up next
on "City Inside/Out: Council Edition."
♪♪
Welcome once again
to "City Inside/Out: Council Edition"
here on the Seattle Channel.
I'm Brian Callanan,
very glad to be with two councilmembers here
in the month of June.
Councilmember Solomon was supposed to join us.
He's sick. Hopefully, feeling better soon.
But with us is Councilmember Joy Hollingsworth,
Seattle's District 3 representative
from the Central District up to Montlake,
also chairing the Council's work on the Comprehensive Plan
and the Parks Committee.
Thank you for being here, Councilmember Hollingsworth.
-Thank you for having me, Brian.
-And we also have with us Councilmember Maritza Rivera,
who represents District 4, from Wallingford out to Sand Point,
chairs the Libraries, Education & Neighborhoods Committee,
also heading up the Committee on the Education Levy.
Good to have you, too, Councilmember Rivera.
-Thank you, Brian. Thanks for having me.
-I wanted to start, if I could, with something a lot of people
have been thinking about here in mid-June,
and that's political protests.
We have seen the National Guard deployed to Los Angeles
against the wishes of the governor
and the L.A. Police Department
as the Trump administration
enacts an immigration crackdown here.
A Seattle Channel viewer wanted me to ask you this --
"What is [your] position on...
protests in Seattle?
What about SPD" --
the Seattle Police Department --
"cooperating with ICE?" --
Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"What about if Trump activates the National Guard in Seattle
or the Marines?
The possibilities are real.
What are [you] doing to prepare?"
Councilmember Hollingsworth, can I start with you on this?
How do you respond to that?
-A couple of things --
The first thing is that we support peaceful protests.
I think that's an important part of our democracy --
for us to make sure that people are peacefully protesting.
The second piece to that is that I know that
our Seattle Police Department has gone on the record
to say that they are city government --
they are not the federal.
So that connection with ICE -- they have no connection there.
So that's also -- has been on the record, has been spoken.
And then the third piece, you know, I think how I see my job,
which I think is incredibly important,
is focusing on local issues right now,
making sure that government is still running here.
There's going to be stuff that's going to happen
on the world level, federal level --
all different types of levels.
The one thing that I know that we can control right now
is what's in front of us,
which is making sure the city stays operating day to day.
And that's what we're focused on.
-Okay. And I'm going to come back to you on that
in just a second.
But, Councilmember Rivera,
I thought it was very interesting to hear
how our new police chief, Shon Barnes,
spoke to this issue at a recent Public Safety Committee meeting,
as he goes through the confirmation process here.
He said this about the possibility
of the National Guard or other federal troops
being deployed in Seattle.
Here's what he said.
-I will do everything in my power --
I want to be clear --
to protect anyone in Seattle
from anyone who comes to this city
with the intention to hurt them
or inhibit their First Amendment rights.
And what that means is, at some point,
I will probably go to jail and be in prison.
-The chief noted that a judge in Milwaukee
was arrested by the FBI back in April
for allegedly helping a man evade immigration authorities.
I just wanted to ask, is this where we are right now?
Are you afraid of getting arrested?
I'm thinking about how the Council's preparing
for President Trump putting a target on Seattle.
-That's a great question, Brian.
And I was actually really pleased
to hear the chief address that question in the way that he did,
because it makes me know that he is committed
to protecting the people of Seattle.
You know, this is very real --
what is happening at the federal level.
Could we be arrested? Technically so, yes, of course.
But, you know,
as Councilmember Hollingsworth said earlier,
we are protecting freedom -- people's freedom of speech.
-Mm-hmm. -We support peaceful protests.
I actually worked for the ACLU in the Wayback Machine.
And, you know,
we need to make sure people have freedom of speech
and that we are protecting that.
And I was happy to hear the chief talk about that.
And to Councilmember Hollingsworth's point, also,
we are running the city
and providing the folks with all the services
that they need in our city.
We are a welcoming city, and we will continue to do so.
And if that means we're going to get targeted,
we will have to roll with those punches and take those hits.
-Okay. Thank you.
I wanted to go back to you, Councilmember Hollingsworth,
because in looking at the protests
Seattle has gone through over the past several weeks,
there were protests and counterprotests
back in the month of May
with the arrival of the Mayday USA protest
at Cal Anderson Park.
Mayday USA is an anti-abortion,
anti-transgender religious group.
They clashed with LGBTQ counterprotesters there
in a rally that made its way to the steps of City Hall.
I'm just kind of looking ahead here
because there's a similar conservative religious group
that's expected to gather in Seattle later on in August here,
potentially at Cal Anderson Park again.
How do you think the city handled this back in May?
What do you want to see happen differently later this summer?
-Logistically, Brian, we could have handled it a lot better.
And I say that because this story got turned into
Christians versus LGBTQIA+ community.
And it's unfortunate because that's not
what my experience has been with faith.
I'm very open about -- I'm gay, I'm Christian --
I have all these different identities.
And so, that's what it got spun into.
And it's hard because sometimes
when people use religion to say hateful things
or things that target a certain demographic,
and they weaponize the Bible and use religion as a backstop,
it's tough because that's not what this conversation is about.
This is people that were Christians
that had a different opinion,
and so it's challenging
because we put a lot of people in really tough positions.
We put our gay community in a very tough position.
We put our officers in a tough position.
Like, we -- It was logistically kind of a nightmare,
and I'd be the first one to admit that.
And I know that we are --
my commitment to the district is a couple things.
The first thing is that I'm going to know about
every event that's happening.
So knowing about that event August 30th
that's coming to Seattle,
trying to figure out ways in which --
"Okay, you want to come to Seattle?
You want to worship? Fine.
Can we figure out a way that you can do that
in a peaceful --
in a way that's safe for the community?"
The second piece to that
is making sure we're looking to everything
that's permitted through a civil --
or excuse me -- a public-safety lens.
How are we going to continue to protect people
for their First Amendment rights,
but also make sure that they're not targeting people
with certain type of speech that's inciting violence?
So it's a delicate balance, and I know that.
-Where do you draw that line? -It's hard.
-You know, what turns into hate speech, et cetera?
-Yeah. It's -- It's -- When you -- Yeah.
So it's been documented throughout history
and then legal stuff that's happened in the courts,
but, you know,
it's also us just having a human conversation with people
before something happens
and trying to defuse the situation.
So we're going to try to do that
and try to make sure that we're protecting people,
but that our commitment from our office
is to make sure that we're protecting
some of the most vulnerable people in our city,
which is incredibly important.
-Does this rally come back to Cal Anderson Park?
I know that's been a big question.
-That's a question that we're going to have to deal with Parks
because they're the ones who permitted this.
So, you know, there are talks between the executive and Parks
to, you know, try to make sure
that this group can still exercise their First Amendment,
but, also, not at the expense
of certain people and our neighbors.
So there's a delicate balance going there,
and that's what we're trying to navigate.
-Thank you very much.
Councilmember Rivera,
I wanted to talk about this issue with you,
because this point of crowd control
is the last thing Seattle needs to check off the list
to get out from under a federal consent decree,
the federal oversight that's been in place since 2012
over use of force and other issues
with the Seattle Police Department.
Do you think Seattle is up to the test for this summer?
What are your concerns about this season of protest ahead?
-Yeah, great question.
And I do think that Seattle's up to the task,
particularly with our new police chief, our interim police chief.
-Yeah. -I will say, Brian,
that, you know, the freedom of speech is a fundamental right,
and it's been well litigated in this country.
And so, you know,
we need -- we need to allow for freedom of speech
and, most importantly,
for peaceful and safe expressions of speech.
And so that is what we need to prepare for.
And I will say, you know, as --
I will say, as a Jewish family,
you know, I've seen people say horrible things.
And it is, you know --
I've had folks want -- say things like,
"You should be dead 'cause you're Jewish,"
you know, all these things.
And it is hurtful, and it is -- it's abhorrent.
And even with all of that,
we have freedom of speech,
and everyone's able to say what -- what they feel,
even if it's something we do not agree with.
So I just want to say I don't agree with those values.
I don't agree with the values of the folks that came to protest,
and I'm going to say that strongly,
and I'll keep repeating it.
-Yeah.
-I will say, in terms of, like, what you asked earlier
about the protests and the safe peace,
I do feel, based on the chief's comments yesterday,
I feel like we will be well prepared.
He supports the freedom of speech,
and he understands that we need to keep people protected.
-He was talking about less is more,
in terms of police with shields, et cetera, that kind of thing.
-And just, you know, making sure that there is --
Because there's counterprotests, also,
which are also necessary.
That, too, is freedom of speech, and we need to allow for both.
And making sure that we have, you know --
in the law, it is allowed to have...
I wouldn't call it -- somewhat of a barrier
so that folks can express themselves.
-I see. -And so what --
what can that look like, and how can --
The police help with that in a way that is legal,
but also gets to the public safety,
and it doesn't escalate situations.
Because I think, when things get escalated,
that is where you get the problem.
People get heated, there's escalation,
and then things can go
in a direction we do not want it to go.
So I do think this chief is well prepared for that.
And it is something that, you know,
we'll have to keep monitoring as the summer goes on.
-It'll be a real test over the next couple months, for sure.
Councilmember Rivera, let me go back to you
for a question about Councilmember Moore,
who is stepping down from her position on the Council
for health and personal reasons.
The Council is set to have her replacement appointed
by the end of July.
Adding some context here --
Councilmember Morales left her D-2 position back in January,
so this is the second time a Councilmember has resigned
in less than six months.
I need to ask this big question here --
what does this say about the Seattle City Council?
-I will say that Councilmember Moore --
I'm really sad to see her leave.
We tag-teamed representing the North End.
And I've really enjoyed sitting on the Council with her.
And folks need to take care of themselves and their health.
And so that's all I'll say about that.
-Oh, I understand. -Yeah. Yeah.
-I mainly was trying to ask --
two members leaving within the span of six months.
I think a lot of people are saying, "What's going on?"
And that's kind of where I'm coming from.
-I can't speak to Councilmember Morales' departure.
-That's fair. Yeah, mm-hmm.
-I can -- And Councilmember Moore --
we know why she's leaving.
And like I said, I'm sorry to see her go.
That said, I really enjoy my relationships
with my fellow councilmembers.
And, you know, we're here to serve the people.
I'm committed to that, we will continue to do that,
and we'll have another process now for the next person.
I think, Brian, you know, one thing to keep in mind
is there were six new people when we came on in January.
-Yeah. Right.
-And so there's sometimes shuffling.
There's Council elections coming up.
We had to do elections for -- an election
for the last seat that we had to fill.
So there's been a lot of moving parts
related to some of that --
logistical things. -Okay.
-And so that's something that we're managing for, right?
But we work really well together.
Like I said, I'm happy to be sitting on the Council
with my Council friends -- I call them friends.
I consider Councilmember Hollingsworth a friend.
And, you know, I think this Council's done
a really good job of, you know --
sometimes we disagree.
We agree to disagree.
We keep the train moving forward.
And there's a lot of alignment. -Yeah. Yeah.
-And you can see that, also, even in the federal,
with the federal government, what's happening.
-Sure. -We are all aligned.
-Yeah.
-And with the protests, et cetera.
So there are a lot of pieces of alignment,
and I am looking forward to finding
the next person who's going to represent the D-5
and who will be my new partner on the North End,
as we represent that end of town.
Although I always say I represent D-4,
but also the entire -- we all represent
the entire city... -Of course, yes, right.
-...as a full body, and we care about the full city.
-Okay. Thank you very much for engaging with that.
Councilmember Hollingsworth,
the person taking this appointed Council seat
would serve about a year and a half,
then face an election for a one-year term in 2026,
possibly a full four-year term in 2027
if that person chooses to run.
Do you want another caretaker for this position,
like Councilmember Solomon's doing with District 2 or --
meaning someone who wouldn't run for the permanent job?
Who are you looking for in a replacement here?
-Let me first say
that Councilmember Moore has been a phenomenal colleague,
a steady hand, a sharp, sharp legal mind.
And we saw her heart every day on the second floor.
This job is hard.
Sacrifices that you have to make with your family,
personal sacrifices,
you know, the engagement that you have to have
with the community -- it's hard.
We signed up for it, so we know what we were getting into.
But it's not to also negate the fact that this is --
this is hard, so I want to recognize that.
And, you know, Councilmember Moore's health --
we are wishing her the best
and just really positive health outcomes.
You know, this is so new, and it's -- it's kind of --
not funny, but I joke, like,
we've been through this process before, right?
-Yeah, a few times, right. -Right. So we've done it.
So we kind of know what that process is.
But I will say that we're looking for --
I know I am -- I can't speak for my colleagues,
but just, you know, someone that we can obviously get along with,
that has -- wants to serve the city,
has a positive mindset about -- the glass is half full always,
and trying to build upon --
continuing to make sure
that Seattle is a welcoming place for everyone
and -- and with our values.
So I think that's kind of what we're looking for.
I can't really say, like, hey, you know,
caretaker, non-caretaker, whatever.
We want the best candidate. -Mm-hmm.
-Okay. Do you have some thoughts about that,
Councilmember Rivera, in terms of who you want
to try to replace Councilmember Moore?
-Someone who's going to replace
the D-5 and their interests and their needs, you know,
which -- there are some similarities between districts
and then some -- some things that are different.
And so someone who's really going to work with community
in the D-5 and work with all of us
and have a growth mindset
as we all work together to tackle the city problems.
So...
And that's what I'm looking for or what I will be looking for.
-All right.
Well, we'll see that process happening soon enough here.
-Yeah. -So, thank you for that.
One issue that Councilmember Moore
was working on just before she resigned
was a chance to change
the Seattle City Council's ethics code.
So this was recommended by
Seattle's Ethics and Elections Commission here,
which suggested councilmembers should be able
to simply disclose if they have a conflict of interest
before a vote,
rather than recuse themselves, which is the standard now.
The Ethics Commission said,
when councilmembers recuse themselves, essentially,
in Seattle's district system,
it can disenfranchise a lot of people.
But on the flip side of this are questions from viewers
that come along like this, asking this question...
I know there's been a lot said
about this, Councilmember Hollingsworth,
but I wanted to get your position on this ethics issue.
Does the standard need to be changed?
-So, that was a bill brought by Councilmember Moore.
I brought forward some amendments to try to --
like I bring every time a bill comes before us,
we try to always make it better.
All councilmembers have different point of views,
different perspectives, and different interests
that they're trying to make sure that they uphold.
So we try to make the bill better.
The question you ask, does this need to be addressed right now?
Councilmember Moore thought it should be.
And so she brought the bill forward.
And our due diligence for District 3 office was,
"Okay, how can we -- how can we make it better?
How can we be able to improve this -- this process?"
Behind the scenes, I've seen how the ethics and --
and stuff had -- behind the scenes,
like, what has happened with some other councilmembers
and some questions that have come up and just that process.
-Yeah. -And so...
-It puts a lot of power into an unelected position there
with the Ethics Commission.
I mean, that's -- that's a big part of this.
-It does, and some of the amendments we brought forth
we thought were trying to make it more transparent,
more visible for the public, more open for the public,
so they could understand, like,
hey, these are the interests of the councilmembers.
So, you know, whether it needs to come back or not,
it's not something that our office is looking into.
I can't speak for other folks, but it's something
that we tried to improve upon with our amendments.
-Okay. Got it.
Councilmember Rivera, a viewer wanted me to ask you this.
"[Councilmembers] Rivera and Solomon voted to pass
Councilmember Moore's ethics recusal bill out of committee.
Do they still feel that the ethics standard is too high?
Is there any conflict of interest
that should require councilmembers to recuse?"
Any thoughts about that, please?
-There are definitely conflicts of interest
where you need to recuse
if you have a financial interest in what you're voting on.
-Yeah.
-I've recused myself in the past just because, you know,
if my spouse sat on a board of something
and I thought there was no financial interest in that case,
but I felt I disclosed,
and then and then I recused and I didn't need to recuse.
I do think that this was something
that the ethics director, Wayne Barnett brought forward.
It was something that he felt it was important.
There are other cities that have disclosure versus recusal.
I will also say, Brian,
that we are all required to disclose to the city
and to the state
every year versus disclosure forms
for transparency reasons.
And people can go on and see all our financial records.
And when you take this job,
you really are putting all of your things
out there for the viewer, as we should.
And I support that.
-Yeah. Okay. -You're a landlord.
I know this has come out in the news, too.
And how's that going to work
with some of the different landlord/tenant laws
that are being discussed right now?
That was a part of this discussion, too.
-Yes, there was.
My husband and I co-own a small townhouse
with -- with a family member. -Yeah, okay.
-And so we rent that one unit.
-Yeah. And that would be an example
of maybe something where you'd recuse yourself.
-And that would be an example. Exactly.
-Yeah. Okay. Thank you for helping me break this down.
-But I do think, Brian, that this legislation
was not about landlord/tenant.
It was broader than that.
And it kept getting pigeonholed into that...
-I see. -...when, in fact,
it has come up various times --
this piece about ethics and disclosure versus recusal.
Like I said earlier, I recused on something
that, really, I didn't need to recuse on.
But there is a bit of -- you know,
you feel like you need to recuse and not just disclose.
So it was to bring some clarity around that, too.
-Okay, okay.
-And something that I will have to say predates us because...
-That's true. -Yes.
Because Wayne Barnett had brought this
to the Council's attention in the past.
It's come up -- not just in this Council,
but prior Council. -Right.
-So I just want to make sure people understand that.
-Yes.
-This isn't something we just brought this Council.
It was not related to a particular piece of legislation.
-Right. -It's something that has come up
in the time we've been here,
and that came up for prior Council, as well.
-Thank you for that context.
I think it was -- some people, maybe critics of it,
would say the timing of it was tough
because like, "Wait a minute.
We are going to be talking about these tenant/landlord pieces.
We are going to be --
Well, we are going to be paying attention to what's happening
when it comes to ethics in Washington, D.C."
I think a lot of people
have some heightened awareness of this.
The timing of this, I guess, was difficult.
-Yeah, but it -- Absolutely.
And I think, also, too,
and I want to just double down on Councilmember Rivera's point
was that this was brought at the behest
of the Elections Committee... -Yes.
-...with Wayne Barnett to Councilmember Moore, right?
So this is what had been discussed for a while
to try to improve the process. -Mm-hmm.
-And I know that, you know, the timing --
that's what caught everyone's attention.
And then, you know,
the message is always just as important
as what the mission is.
And that kind of just ran, you know, just differently.
And so, anyways, I just -- I wanted to address that.
But here's the thing -- the bill has been pulled, okay?
It is not on the...
It's not up for us to vote on. -Yeah.
-And it's been pulled.
-Okay. All right.
And we'll see what happens next. -Yeah.
-That's -- Thank you for bringing that point up.
I did want to talk about something with you
with the Comprehensive Plan,
the committee you're overseeing here.
So, this is the road map
for how Seattle handles its urban growth here.
The Council recently passed an interim measure
to keep Seattle in line with the new state law
that requires the city to allow
four or more units on all residential lots in the city.
And now comes the rest of the plan.
One of our viewers
wants to know this...
Help me out with that because
I think homelessness, housing --
it's all on a continuum here. -For sure.
-How do you respond to a question like that?
-Yeah, we're doing our hardest -- our best
to make sure that we're in a line
with the State House Bill 1110.
We passed the interim legislation, and I think the --
one of the most important pieces
that I feel like sometimes we kind of miss the mark on
is not necessarily,
"Hey, we just need to upzone the whole city,
and we just need to do this."
That is not enough.
What about the back-end piece of the, you know,
how are people getting permit,
how long that process is going to take, right?
What city pieces are we putting on folks
to make -- to hinder -- right? --
people from developing and building certain stuff?
-I see, yeah.
-What resources are we offering folks to be able to build?
And I think House Bill 1110
unlocks an unbelievable opportunity
for this city to grow
and for people to be able to -- anti-displacement,
to be able to stay, you know, be able to age in place,
also, add to their property,
whether it's lot-splitting,
whether they're building three, four units,
whether they're adding an ADU, a DADU --
whatever it is, you know, we're looking forward to that.
But we have to make it easier on the back end, too.
So it's not just about the policy lens of,
you know, a Comprehensive Plan.
It's also a package of making sure
that the city's doing everything in their possible realm
to be able to cut some of the red tape
that we have in the bureaucracy -- right? --
for people to be able to build in their home --
the technical assistance, the funding, the zoning,
the time length -- all these different --
-Design review, yeah. -Yeah!
How much are we putting on Seattle Public Utilities?
Like, you know, the hookup, the side sewer.
We just had this discussion.
I know it's one of Councilmember Rivera's --
she brought a great amendment that helped --
-Oh, your favorite thing to talk about.
-Yeah. -All these different things.
-So, yeah, of course we need to build more, right?
And we understand that, when you have less housing,
you know, there -- it exacerbates homelessness,
exacerbates all these things.
But we also have to make sure
that we're doing it at the city level,
cutting the red tape for people to be able to build, as well.
-Got it. Councilmember Rivera,
I had another Comp Plan question come from a viewer
aimed at your district.
Eric wants to know this...
It's in the Laurelhurst area.
I know that's -- I know you know the spot, too, there.
Some thoughts about this question here?
-Well, the fast answer is that did not --
when the Mayor's Office sent down the Comprehensive Plan,
that was not proposed to be upzoned.
-Okay. -And that's something that
we're continuing to work with the Mayor's Office on --
these pieces in general.
The Neighborhood Centers is an expansion.
When you talk about HB 1110,
the Neighborhood Centers is even more of an expansion.
I believe Seattle is the only city
that has this proposed Neighborhood Center plan.
-Right. -Because, you know,
the city understands that
we need more housing across the city.
I do think,
and to Councilmember Hollingsworth's point,
is, folks, we cannot oversimplify this issue.
We need the more housing,
but we need the permitting to go faster
for whatever's being built,
with the infrastructure needs to be in place.
So I think for folks that want more housing fast,
they need to also understand
that we don't currently have the infrastructure
to accommodate that housing fast.
That has to be built, and including --
that's why the permitting process sometimes takes longer.
We definitely need to make...
tweaks to our zoning laws... -Yeah.
-...to address having permitting go faster,
because that does slow down the process.
I mean, there is a project
that everybody wants in my district in Wedgwood,
and we still -- it's a big -- it will have housing.
It also will have a grocery store
that was there before... -Right.
-...that the neighborhood relied on,
that is no longer there.
And that process is taking a really long time,
and that actually has the support
of the majority of the neighbors.
Why is that taking so long?
It's going to bring more housing
and a well-needed grocery store. -Okay.
-So what can we do on the back end
to really help these projects along?
-Yeah. -That's what we're looking at.
-Thank you. I only have a minute left.
I need to do the 30-second version here.
Council just approved this plan to add 30 digital kiosks
to the downtown area, supplying news information,
Wi-Fi access, advertisements, too.
Do you want these in your district?
Do you have some thoughts about this?
-Yeah. Yes.
This was a mayor's proposal,
would love them in the Pike/Pine corridor,
but I have to talk to some of the business owners
and find out.
But it's a revenue generator.
I know it's part of the Downtown Activation Plan.
And looking forward to seeing how, you know,
they respond to our city and how people receive them.
-Okay. Some thoughts about this to wrap up.
-Yeah. In the second phase of this,
it's supposed to come to the U District.
-Right, right.
-So it will be in the district I represent.
And the U District businesses are welcome --
the BIA would like to see that up there.
I think it's a great way to do wayfinding
and some other things.
And, also, I think that the revenue generated
will go back to help with keeping the neighborhood clean
and doing some of the maintenance things,
and that is needed.
-Okay. -And so I welcome that,
especially since my constituents are,
at least in the U District, supportive of it.
-Coming to a digital reader board near you.
Councilmember Rivera, Councilmember Hollingsworth,
thank you for joining me. -Thank you.
-And we will see you next time on "Council Edition."
♪♪