1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,550 Brian Callanan: Hello, I'm your host, Brian Callanan. 2 00:00:05,550 --> 00:00:08,120 Initiative 645 would repeal 3 00:00:08,120 --> 00:00:09,840 the so called Millionaires tax, 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,820 Washington state lawmakers approved 5 00:00:11,820 --> 00:00:14,580 earlier this year on the incomes of high earners. 6 00:00:14,580 --> 00:00:16,100 That's set the stage for 7 00:00:16,100 --> 00:00:18,300 a big dollar political battle this fall, 8 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:21,560 over this tax and our state's economic future. 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,220 Speaker 1: The Millionaires tax. 10 00:00:23,220 --> 00:00:26,460 Brian Callanan: When state leaders passed a 9.9% 11 00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:29,500 tax on income over $1 million this March, 12 00:00:29,500 --> 00:00:31,800 the Let's go Washington group gathered 13 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,560 more than half 1 million signatures of voters who want 14 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,470 to repeal that tax with I 645. 15 00:00:37,470 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 2: We don't trust Olympia. 16 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,965 They spent recklessly for years. 17 00:00:40,965 --> 00:00:43,235 Speaker 3: Vote yes on Initiative 645. 18 00:00:43,235 --> 00:00:45,120 Brian Callanan: 645 supporters say 19 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,400 the so called Millionaires tax will 20 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,380 soon expand to all Washington residents, 21 00:00:50,380 --> 00:00:52,520 but the no side is pushing back. 22 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,910 Speaker 4: 645 gives millionaires and 23 00:00:54,910 --> 00:00:58,010 billionaires a $13 billion tax break. 24 00:00:58,010 --> 00:01:00,370 Brian Callanan: Opponents of I 645 say 25 00:01:00,370 --> 00:01:02,210 the high earners tax helps make 26 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:04,610 the state's taxing system more equitable, 27 00:01:04,610 --> 00:01:07,030 and they say eliminating the tax would 28 00:01:07,030 --> 00:01:09,750 take billions of dollars from critical programs. 29 00:01:09,750 --> 00:01:11,590 RIAN WATT: Now is not the time to cut funding for 30 00:01:11,590 --> 00:01:14,150 K 12 education to give the rich more of a tax cut. 31 00:01:14,150 --> 00:01:15,850 Brian Callanan: You'll hear from both sides. 32 00:01:15,850 --> 00:01:17,610 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Not a dime of this money 33 00:01:17,610 --> 00:01:20,150 is earmarked for healthcare education. 34 00:01:20,150 --> 00:01:22,190 Brian Callanan: The opposing campaigns are giving 35 00:01:22,190 --> 00:01:24,590 their $0.02 on the Millionaires tax. 36 00:01:24,590 --> 00:01:27,510 Next, on City Inside Out. 37 00:01:46,250 --> 00:01:48,650 Thanks again for joining us here on 38 00:01:48,650 --> 00:01:50,590 City Inside Out on the Seattle Channel. 39 00:01:50,590 --> 00:01:52,330 I'm Brian Callanan, and very glad 40 00:01:52,330 --> 00:01:54,270 to have with me a few people who are going to be 41 00:01:54,270 --> 00:01:55,890 talking about I 645 and 42 00:01:55,890 --> 00:01:58,810 the future of Washington's so called Millionaires tax. 43 00:01:58,810 --> 00:02:00,530 In favor of repealing that tax, 44 00:02:00,530 --> 00:02:02,610 which is a yes vote on I 645 45 00:02:02,610 --> 00:02:05,065 is former congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler. 46 00:02:05,065 --> 00:02:06,290 Jamie, thanks a lot for being here. 47 00:02:06,290 --> 00:02:07,300 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: It's a pleasure. 48 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:09,190 Brian Callanan: Favor of keeping that tax around, 49 00:02:09,190 --> 00:02:12,130 which is a no vote on 645 is Rian Watt, 50 00:02:12,130 --> 00:02:15,390 executive director of the Economic Opportunity Institute, 51 00:02:15,390 --> 00:02:16,990 a nonprofit based here in Seattle. 52 00:02:16,990 --> 00:02:18,750 Rian, appreciate your viewpoints, too. 53 00:02:18,750 --> 00:02:19,770 RIAN WATT: Thanks for having me back. 54 00:02:19,770 --> 00:02:20,950 Brian Callanan: Let's get this started here. 55 00:02:20,950 --> 00:02:22,310 And, Rian, you're going to start off. 56 00:02:22,310 --> 00:02:23,930 We had a coin flip before the show. 57 00:02:23,930 --> 00:02:26,230 Why do you oppose 645? 58 00:02:26,230 --> 00:02:26,670 RIAN WATT: Great. 59 00:02:26,670 --> 00:02:28,630 Well, thank you again for having me back on the show. 60 00:02:28,630 --> 00:02:30,350 I really appreciate it. I think 61 00:02:30,350 --> 00:02:31,650 the case for a no vote 62 00:02:31,650 --> 00:02:33,510 on this initiative is really simple. 63 00:02:33,510 --> 00:02:35,270 This initiative is an effort 64 00:02:35,270 --> 00:02:36,330 by some of the richest people 65 00:02:36,330 --> 00:02:39,130 in our state to give themselves a massive tax cut 66 00:02:39,130 --> 00:02:42,810 to the tune of $13 billion and to pay for it by cutting 67 00:02:42,810 --> 00:02:44,650 investments in K 12 education 68 00:02:44,650 --> 00:02:47,290 in higher education, and in healthcare. 69 00:02:47,290 --> 00:02:50,150 These aren't abstract cuts. We know what this would mean. 70 00:02:50,150 --> 00:02:51,810 It would mean larger class sizes 71 00:02:51,810 --> 00:02:52,970 in school districts that are 72 00:02:52,970 --> 00:02:54,290 already struggling to keep up. 73 00:02:54,290 --> 00:02:55,770 It would mean fewer kids going to 74 00:02:55,770 --> 00:02:57,490 community and technical college and becoming 75 00:02:57,490 --> 00:03:00,010 part of Washington's workforce of the future and it would 76 00:03:00,010 --> 00:03:03,610 mean people putting off care when they need it the most. 77 00:03:03,610 --> 00:03:05,910 But these aren't the only stakes. 78 00:03:05,910 --> 00:03:08,450 Initiative 645 would also imperil some of 79 00:03:08,450 --> 00:03:11,190 the largest efforts at tax relief in our state's history. 80 00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:12,730 It would threaten the largest 81 00:03:12,730 --> 00:03:14,510 small business tax cut in state history. 82 00:03:14,510 --> 00:03:16,890 It would threaten a massive expansion 83 00:03:16,890 --> 00:03:18,430 of the working families tax credit, 84 00:03:18,430 --> 00:03:20,150 and it would threaten the elimination of 85 00:03:20,150 --> 00:03:23,490 the sales tax for a range of personal hygiene products, 86 00:03:23,490 --> 00:03:27,065 including the diapers that my family buys every month. 87 00:03:27,065 --> 00:03:29,080 Washington already has one 88 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:30,420 of the most regressive tax codes in 89 00:03:30,420 --> 00:03:31,600 the country where the rich pay 90 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,360 less and the rest of us pay more. 91 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,200 Now is not the time to cut funding for 92 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,760 K 12 education to give the rich more of a tax cut. 93 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:38,960 Brian Callanan: Thank you very much for that. 94 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:39,940 Jamie, if you could, 95 00:03:39,940 --> 00:03:41,925 your thoughts about why you support this. 96 00:03:41,925 --> 00:03:43,970 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Listen, if any of that were true, 97 00:03:43,970 --> 00:03:46,130 I would not be here supporting 98 00:03:46,130 --> 00:03:48,370 a repeal of the income tax. 99 00:03:48,370 --> 00:03:51,070 I'm urging people to vote yes on 645 to 100 00:03:51,070 --> 00:03:54,430 repeal this income tax because voters deserve the truth. 101 00:03:54,430 --> 00:03:56,550 This is an income tax that has been 102 00:03:56,550 --> 00:03:59,675 designed to be expanded to every Washingtonian. 103 00:03:59,675 --> 00:04:02,110 Whether you are a retired teacher or 104 00:04:02,110 --> 00:04:04,890 a truck driver or a hairdresser or a plumber, 105 00:04:04,890 --> 00:04:07,500 this tax is coming for your income, 106 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:10,300 and here's how we know Olympia lawmakers voted twice, 107 00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:12,420 once to put the tax in place, but again, 108 00:04:12,420 --> 00:04:14,740 to make it to where they can easily expand 109 00:04:14,740 --> 00:04:17,580 it with the stroke of a pen to every Washingtonian. 110 00:04:17,580 --> 00:04:19,420 Secondly, in that bill, 111 00:04:19,420 --> 00:04:22,280 they erased longstanding protections for 112 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:25,480 pensions for public sector worker retirees. 113 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,380 They're going to tax their pension checks, 114 00:04:27,380 --> 00:04:29,920 and they left Social Security vulnerable. 115 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,880 The projected money, and this is the third reason that is 116 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,740 expected to come in from the Millionaire tax, 117 00:04:35,740 --> 00:04:37,620 from this income tax will 118 00:04:37,620 --> 00:04:40,320 not cover the projected spending commitments. 119 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,080 Do you know what that means? They're going 120 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,825 to expand this in the short term. 121 00:04:43,825 --> 00:04:45,620 Lawmakers want us to believe that this 122 00:04:45,620 --> 00:04:47,500 is only for millionaires, right? 123 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:50,340 That is because they intend to expand it to every 124 00:04:50,340 --> 00:04:53,440 single one of us and they put the places in place, 125 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,340 the pieces in place already so it's very important to 126 00:04:56,340 --> 00:04:59,590 vote yes to repeal this income tax before it's too late. 127 00:04:59,590 --> 00:05:01,030 Brian Callanan: Got it. I'm going to pull apart some of 128 00:05:01,030 --> 00:05:02,930 these different arguments now if I could and, 129 00:05:02,930 --> 00:05:04,490 Jamie, let me talk about this with you. 130 00:05:04,490 --> 00:05:06,310 Let's say people voted yes on 131 00:05:06,310 --> 00:05:08,790 645 and the Millionaires tax was repealed. 132 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:10,170 I think your opponents would say, and 133 00:05:10,170 --> 00:05:11,790 Rian did say you've just blown 134 00:05:11,790 --> 00:05:13,270 a multibillion dollar hole in 135 00:05:13,270 --> 00:05:15,030 the state budget for the next several years. 136 00:05:15,030 --> 00:05:17,130 I know there was a big legal battle over this, 137 00:05:17,130 --> 00:05:19,410 the public investment Impact disclosure, 138 00:05:19,410 --> 00:05:20,950 as it's called, which involved 139 00:05:20,950 --> 00:05:22,610 a split decision from the Supreme Court. 140 00:05:22,610 --> 00:05:24,510 But this information about how I 141 00:05:24,510 --> 00:05:26,610 645 would affect the state budget 142 00:05:26,610 --> 00:05:28,070 is going to be in front of voters. 143 00:05:28,070 --> 00:05:30,140 I just want you to respond to that critique. 144 00:05:30,140 --> 00:05:31,930 That 645 could hurt the state. 145 00:05:31,930 --> 00:05:33,070 I mean, where's the money going to come 146 00:05:33,070 --> 00:05:34,650 from for public services. 147 00:05:34,650 --> 00:05:35,830 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Let's look at the bill itself. 148 00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:37,590 Let's look at what actually happened. 149 00:05:37,590 --> 00:05:40,890 Not one dime will be repealed from healthcare or 150 00:05:40,890 --> 00:05:42,950 education if this initiative 151 00:05:42,950 --> 00:05:44,470 passes in the next five weeks. 152 00:05:44,470 --> 00:05:46,350 The first way I know that is this tax 153 00:05:46,350 --> 00:05:48,830 isn't even going to be collected until 2029. 154 00:05:48,830 --> 00:05:50,450 Only in Olympia, 155 00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:52,450 can you cut something that doesn't exist? 156 00:05:52,450 --> 00:05:54,750 Secondly, and more profoundly, 157 00:05:54,750 --> 00:05:57,910 the intent section of this bill is a wish list. 158 00:05:57,910 --> 00:06:00,070 This is what we'd like to spend money on. 159 00:06:00,070 --> 00:06:02,650 The actual legally binding portion of 160 00:06:02,650 --> 00:06:04,010 this legislation has not 161 00:06:04,010 --> 00:06:06,690 one earmark for healthcare or for education. 162 00:06:06,690 --> 00:06:10,130 It is flat false to anyone who's read that bill 163 00:06:10,130 --> 00:06:12,030 to understand that that bill 164 00:06:12,030 --> 00:06:14,345 earmarks money for healthcare education, 165 00:06:14,345 --> 00:06:16,405 it is going into the general fund. 166 00:06:16,405 --> 00:06:19,150 Now, proponents of the tax have really muddied this, 167 00:06:19,150 --> 00:06:21,450 the public perception of what this money is going 168 00:06:21,450 --> 00:06:23,710 to be used for for obvious reasons. 169 00:06:23,710 --> 00:06:26,650 But the legal reality is starkly different. 170 00:06:26,650 --> 00:06:28,410 Not a dime of this money 171 00:06:28,410 --> 00:06:31,250 is earmarked for healthcare education. 172 00:06:31,250 --> 00:06:33,390 I've spent a lot of time around budgets, 173 00:06:33,390 --> 00:06:35,610 I spent 15 years in elected office, 174 00:06:35,610 --> 00:06:37,210 both at the state and the federal level. 175 00:06:37,210 --> 00:06:39,350 I know exactly what it looks like when 176 00:06:39,350 --> 00:06:41,830 lawmakers are rejecting an earmark. 177 00:06:41,830 --> 00:06:43,330 It's because they want to use that money 178 00:06:43,330 --> 00:06:44,550 for what they want to use it for. 179 00:06:44,550 --> 00:06:46,510 Brian Callanan: Okay. I want to make sure that you respond to that, 180 00:06:46,510 --> 00:06:49,310 Rian, some thoughts about what Jamie was saying. 181 00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:52,970 RIAN WATT: 30% of the state's budget 182 00:06:52,970 --> 00:06:54,230 goes to K 12 education. 183 00:06:54,230 --> 00:06:56,330 Roughly 30% goes to healthcare. 184 00:06:56,330 --> 00:06:58,450 Roughly 15% goes to higher ed, 185 00:06:58,450 --> 00:07:00,690 roughly 10% goes to human services. 186 00:07:00,690 --> 00:07:02,170 When dollars are not 187 00:07:02,170 --> 00:07:04,350 specifically allocated, they go to the general fund. 188 00:07:04,350 --> 00:07:05,830 When they ultimately go out the door, 189 00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:07,830 that's what they go to and so when we are 190 00:07:07,830 --> 00:07:08,930 talking about blowing 191 00:07:08,930 --> 00:07:10,910 a $13 billion hole in the state budget, 192 00:07:10,910 --> 00:07:12,470 that is what we are talking about. 193 00:07:12,470 --> 00:07:15,270 We are talking to cuts to K 12 education spending. 194 00:07:15,270 --> 00:07:17,390 We are talking about cuts to healthcare spending, 195 00:07:17,390 --> 00:07:19,470 and we're talking about cuts to higher education. 196 00:07:19,470 --> 00:07:21,450 That's why the public Investment 197 00:07:21,450 --> 00:07:23,490 Impact disclosure statement says what it says. 198 00:07:23,490 --> 00:07:25,710 That's why it was upheld at the State Supreme Court, 199 00:07:25,710 --> 00:07:28,130 and that's the choice in front of voters this November. 200 00:07:28,130 --> 00:07:29,110 Brian Callanan: I guess I want to make 201 00:07:29,110 --> 00:07:30,270 sure I follow up on something, 202 00:07:30,270 --> 00:07:31,870 though, with you, Rian, if I could, 203 00:07:31,870 --> 00:07:34,210 with regard to state spending and this 204 00:07:34,210 --> 00:07:36,970 argument that the state isn't using its money wisely. 205 00:07:36,970 --> 00:07:38,230 I know I've heard that from a lot of 206 00:07:38,230 --> 00:07:40,010 people who are supporting the yes side here. 207 00:07:40,010 --> 00:07:41,850 More funding from the millionaires tax 208 00:07:41,850 --> 00:07:42,590 isn't going to help. 209 00:07:42,590 --> 00:07:45,425 Can you talk to me about that side of it, too? 210 00:07:45,425 --> 00:07:47,440 RIAN WATT: There's certainly a conversation to be had 211 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,220 about state spending and budgets in Olympia, 212 00:07:49,220 --> 00:07:50,700 and I know that conversation is ongoing. 213 00:07:50,700 --> 00:07:51,940 It's been happening for ten years. 214 00:07:51,940 --> 00:07:54,040 It'll be happening for another ten years, no doubt. 215 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,480 But I think it's really important to 216 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,740 understand what's happening right here right now, 217 00:07:57,740 --> 00:07:59,180 which is that the yes campaign 218 00:07:59,180 --> 00:08:00,580 is trying to change the subject. 219 00:08:00,580 --> 00:08:02,240 The subject and the question in front of 220 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,040 the voters this November is, 221 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,800 do you want to give fewer than 1% of families in 222 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,980 Washington a massive tax cut and in exchange, 223 00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:12,520 do you want to cut funding for K 12 education, 224 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,260 for healthcare and for higher Ed? 225 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:16,300 That is the choice that we're facing, 226 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:18,560 and that is the choice that voters, I think, 227 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,400 are primed to reject this November. 228 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:22,430 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Voters are primed to 229 00:08:22,430 --> 00:08:23,310 reject that if they're 230 00:08:23,310 --> 00:08:25,110 told that education and health care will be cut. 231 00:08:25,110 --> 00:08:26,970 We just saw a new poll that said, 232 00:08:26,970 --> 00:08:28,270 if they think this is going 233 00:08:28,270 --> 00:08:29,810 to cut healthcare and education, 234 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:32,730 which is important to me, they'll reject it. 235 00:08:32,730 --> 00:08:34,550 But the reality is the 236 00:08:34,550 --> 00:08:36,190 lawmakers who put this bill in place 237 00:08:36,190 --> 00:08:38,470 rejected earmarks both to 238 00:08:38,470 --> 00:08:40,225 keep the threshold at 1 million, 239 00:08:40,225 --> 00:08:42,870 so they know they want to lower it and secondly, 240 00:08:42,870 --> 00:08:45,460 in order to earmark it for healthcare and education. 241 00:08:45,460 --> 00:08:48,470 Actions speak louder than words. 242 00:08:48,470 --> 00:08:50,890 Intent does not equal promised action. 243 00:08:50,890 --> 00:08:52,770 We've seen this from Olympia time and again. 244 00:08:52,770 --> 00:08:55,310 Real spending. You said education was about 30%. 245 00:08:55,310 --> 00:08:57,420 42% of our budget goes to education 246 00:08:57,420 --> 00:08:59,750 that's an 80% increase in the last decade. 247 00:08:59,750 --> 00:09:01,130 I would argue that's important. 248 00:09:01,130 --> 00:09:03,075 That's part of the state Constitution, 249 00:09:03,075 --> 00:09:05,695 the results are less appealing 250 00:09:05,695 --> 00:09:09,380 so dollars in do not necessarily equal results. 251 00:09:09,380 --> 00:09:11,160 Across the board, Washington has not 252 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,940 been meeting the results and actually, 253 00:09:12,940 --> 00:09:14,680 that's not even the debate I want to have. 254 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:19,240 The reality is, however much people approve spending, 255 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,740 what they need to know is lawmakers 256 00:09:21,740 --> 00:09:24,640 put this in place to make it easy to expand to everyone, 257 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:25,920 because the amount they get from 258 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,680 millionaires won't be enough. 259 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:29,700 Brian Callanan: Let's try to engage that, please, 260 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:33,060 this idea that if this Millionaires tax stays in place, 261 00:09:33,060 --> 00:09:34,640 this income tax on high earners, 262 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,100 it'll lead to a slippery slope, 263 00:09:36,100 --> 00:09:37,400 and more people will be part of 264 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,060 this tax income tax statewide. 265 00:09:39,060 --> 00:09:40,630 I want to make sure you speak to that. 266 00:09:40,630 --> 00:09:41,010 RIAN WATT: Yeah. 267 00:09:41,010 --> 00:09:42,930 I think there's a couple of things to say here. 268 00:09:42,930 --> 00:09:44,630 First of all, let's be really clear. 269 00:09:44,630 --> 00:09:47,270 The governor has already been explicit 270 00:09:47,270 --> 00:09:50,110 that he would veto any attempt to lower the threshold. 271 00:09:50,110 --> 00:09:52,250 Senior legislative leaders have been clear that they 272 00:09:52,250 --> 00:09:54,770 do not support any attempt to lower the threshold. 273 00:09:54,770 --> 00:09:57,525 But even setting aside what those folks say, 274 00:09:57,525 --> 00:10:00,700 the bottom line is that voters are always going to have 275 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:03,420 the final say on any attempt to lower this threshold. 276 00:10:03,420 --> 00:10:05,020 Voters are having to say this November on 277 00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:07,080 this tax on incomes over $1 million a year, 278 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,980 $84,000 a month and if in the future, 279 00:10:09,980 --> 00:10:12,360 any legislature chooses to try to lower the threshold, 280 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,220 which for the moment they view as deeply unpopular, 281 00:10:15,220 --> 00:10:18,560 voters will have the final say on that attempt. 282 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:19,620 Brian Callanan: With an initiative 283 00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:20,460 or something along those lines? 284 00:10:20,460 --> 00:10:22,020 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: With an initiative, with a referendum, 285 00:10:22,020 --> 00:10:24,350 just as folks have come out to. 286 00:10:24,350 --> 00:10:25,280 [inaudible] 287 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:26,250 Brian Callanan: Yeah, that didn't work 288 00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:27,570 this time around for sure, yeah. 289 00:10:27,570 --> 00:10:28,990 RIAN WATT: Folks have come out to oppose it and 290 00:10:28,990 --> 00:10:30,670 put it on the ballot as is right to do. 291 00:10:30,670 --> 00:10:32,130 We believe in direct democracy here in 292 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:34,070 Washington. That will be the case. 293 00:10:34,070 --> 00:10:35,790 Voters are always going to have the final say 294 00:10:35,790 --> 00:10:36,910 and I want to say here 295 00:10:36,910 --> 00:10:40,530 that I can understand voters' feelings on this matter, 296 00:10:40,530 --> 00:10:43,030 because the fact is that Washington's middle class and 297 00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:45,150 lower income voters are 298 00:10:45,150 --> 00:10:47,270 taxed more than the wealthiest people in our state. 299 00:10:47,270 --> 00:10:49,650 If you're in the bottom 20% of income in Washington, 300 00:10:49,650 --> 00:10:52,190 you're paying about 14% of your income in taxes, 301 00:10:52,190 --> 00:10:54,730 while the top 1% are paying just 4%. 302 00:10:54,730 --> 00:10:56,730 That's three times less. That's not fair. 303 00:10:56,730 --> 00:10:58,710 I can understand where voters come from, 304 00:10:58,710 --> 00:11:00,310 and that's exactly why efforts 305 00:11:00,310 --> 00:11:01,810 to make our tax code more progressive, 306 00:11:01,810 --> 00:11:02,930 to turn it right side up 307 00:11:02,930 --> 00:11:04,610 are exactly what we need right now. 308 00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:05,370 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Oh my God. 309 00:11:05,370 --> 00:11:07,450 There's a points I'd like to start with. 310 00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:08,590 The first question and then 311 00:11:08,590 --> 00:11:09,740 I'd like to hit that last part. 312 00:11:09,740 --> 00:11:10,660 Brian Callanan: Let's do. 313 00:11:10,660 --> 00:11:12,495 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: You say that the governor has 314 00:11:12,495 --> 00:11:14,935 promised and where in legislation is that written? 315 00:11:14,935 --> 00:11:16,930 Is this like like a pinky promise or 316 00:11:16,930 --> 00:11:20,530 because these lawmakers who you say have promised, 317 00:11:20,530 --> 00:11:22,790 they're not going to lower it two years ago 318 00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:24,595 voted to never put 319 00:11:24,595 --> 00:11:26,575 in place an income tax and when they've been 320 00:11:26,575 --> 00:11:28,870 asked about the hypocrisy of the flip flop, 321 00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:31,430 because we now have an income tax with a high threshold, 322 00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:34,490 they've said, this is senior leaders. 323 00:11:34,490 --> 00:11:36,550 This is a Pie Crust promise, 324 00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:38,580 easily made, easily broken. 325 00:11:38,580 --> 00:11:41,350 I don't know about you, but as a working Washingtonian, 326 00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:43,410 that doesn't leave me any confidence 327 00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:45,050 that they're going to give me a vote. 328 00:11:45,050 --> 00:11:46,750 In fact, they didn't ask us 329 00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:48,430 before they put this income tax in place, 330 00:11:48,430 --> 00:11:50,490 and as you've said, it's more popular to 331 00:11:50,490 --> 00:11:52,730 tax the people at the higher thresholds. 332 00:11:52,730 --> 00:11:54,670 Why would they come back to us when 333 00:11:54,670 --> 00:11:57,170 they know we would reject it at a lower threshold? 334 00:11:57,170 --> 00:11:59,270 They wouldn't which is why they 335 00:11:59,270 --> 00:12:01,410 had to do a two for it and make it all happen at once, 336 00:12:01,410 --> 00:12:03,630 which is why they changed the pension retire 337 00:12:03,630 --> 00:12:05,700 so in this bill, 338 00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:09,580 they changed 80-year-old protection for state workers, 339 00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:12,060 retirees, police, firefighter, retired teachers. 340 00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:13,955 People who have worked their whole lives 341 00:12:13,955 --> 00:12:16,660 and they went section by section, 342 00:12:16,660 --> 00:12:18,080 and it said previously, 343 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,280 they shall never pay a state tax, 344 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,800 that was removed and now we can 345 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,450 and what firefighter makes $1 million a year 346 00:12:25,450 --> 00:12:27,520 they don't and that is 347 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,040 further proof that they intend to 348 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,500 lower this without a vote of the people. 349 00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:32,360 The other point that he made 350 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,905 was that we have the most regressive taxism, correct? 351 00:12:34,905 --> 00:12:36,440 We can have that debate 352 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,260 about whether or not we need to change to 353 00:12:38,260 --> 00:12:41,020 an income tax mainly income tax system. 354 00:12:41,020 --> 00:12:42,360 I'm open to having that debate. 355 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,480 But when you take a middle income family 356 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,760 and you layer on an income tax, 357 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,760 you don't remove sales tax, utility tax, 358 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,440 carbon tax, gas tax, 359 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,060 that working class person, 360 00:12:52,060 --> 00:12:53,880 by the time they've got to their job site, 361 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,480 they're not going to qualify for 362 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,105 free and reduced diapers or cheaper shampoo, 363 00:12:58,105 --> 00:13:00,400 they're already paying most of their income in tax. 364 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,560 Let's truly make it less 365 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:04,000 regressive and bend the taxes for them. 366 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:04,800 Brian Callanan: Well, there's 367 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:06,140 a few different things to pull apart there. 368 00:13:06,140 --> 00:13:07,810 Rian, where do you want to go with this? 369 00:13:07,810 --> 00:13:10,820 RIAN WATT: There's so much to talk about. I'll reiterate, 370 00:13:10,820 --> 00:13:12,980 of course, that voters will always have the final say. 371 00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:14,480 I think that's the most important thing to 372 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,040 hear if you as many don't, 373 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,880 look to the legislators for promises. 374 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,775 The second thing I'd say is the Congresswoman mentioned 375 00:13:22,775 --> 00:13:25,200 teachers and the fact 376 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,620 is that teachers understand 377 00:13:27,620 --> 00:13:29,800 what cuts to K 12 education would mean. 378 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,580 That's why hundreds and thousands of teachers are 379 00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:33,560 supporting the no 1645 campaign and that's 380 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:35,560 why the Washington Education Association 381 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,360 is one of the strongest supporters of this campaign. 382 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,140 That is the facts. 383 00:13:40,140 --> 00:13:41,580 Those are the facts, and anyone 384 00:13:41,580 --> 00:13:42,920 who tries to suggest that this will 385 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,180 tax anyone making under $84,000 a month, 386 00:13:46,180 --> 00:13:49,020 more in a month almost than the media in Washington earns 387 00:13:49,020 --> 00:13:51,820 in a year is simply lying and 388 00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:54,250 so I think what I would say 389 00:13:54,250 --> 00:13:57,840 to this whole conversation 390 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,660 is teachers understand the stakes, 391 00:13:59,660 --> 00:14:01,520 and that's why they're supporting no 1645. 392 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,320 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Teachers have not been told 393 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,420 that when they passed this bill, 394 00:14:05,420 --> 00:14:07,160 they amended the protections for 395 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,540 their retirement income. They were not told. 396 00:14:09,540 --> 00:14:11,300 In fact, when we tell teachers, 397 00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:13,120 progressive teachers who vote 398 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,300 Democrat, when we tell them, 399 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:15,600 do you know that they remove 400 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,720 the retirement protection for your retirement check, 401 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,760 and they say, well, we don't make $1 million. 402 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,060 That's the point. Why would they go line by line to 403 00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:25,280 remove it for teachers and for 404 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,360 firefighters, for state employees, 405 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,060 and for school workers if they did not 406 00:14:29,060 --> 00:14:31,200 intend to lower the threshold and they did it, 407 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,160 they slipped it in because 408 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,680 they're not telling us the truth. 409 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,060 This is a Trojan horse. It's a bait and switch. 410 00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:39,160 I challenge you to tell those teachers 411 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:40,500 who have poured their whole life 412 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:41,520 into working for these kids, 413 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,040 and the state made them a promise. 414 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,440 We're going to take care of you. 415 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,025 The state's breaking that promise. 416 00:14:46,025 --> 00:14:48,230 RIAN WATT: I'll I'll once again point out 417 00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:50,870 that the Congresswoman is changing 418 00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:52,450 the conversation from something 419 00:14:52,450 --> 00:14:53,970 that isn't happening or to 420 00:14:53,970 --> 00:14:56,090 something that isn't happening to 421 00:14:56,090 --> 00:14:57,710 change the subject from what is happening, 422 00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:59,870 which is that a few of the richest people in 423 00:14:59,870 --> 00:15:01,070 our state are trying to give 424 00:15:01,070 --> 00:15:02,490 themselves a massive tax cut, 425 00:15:02,490 --> 00:15:04,030 and they're trying to do it by cutting 426 00:15:04,030 --> 00:15:05,210 funding for the rest of us in 427 00:15:05,210 --> 00:15:06,770 an environment where we already 428 00:15:06,770 --> 00:15:07,870 have one of the most 429 00:15:07,870 --> 00:15:09,710 upside down tax codes in the country. 430 00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:11,890 Any future attempt to change 431 00:15:11,890 --> 00:15:14,250 the threshold will be subject to a vote of the people, 432 00:15:14,250 --> 00:15:16,015 and voters will always have the final. 433 00:15:16,015 --> 00:15:16,520 Brian Callanan: Got it. 434 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,860 Thanks. I want to move on from this piece, if I could. 435 00:15:18,860 --> 00:15:20,760 Jamie, let me talk to you about this. 436 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,840 A lot of state lawmakers are concerned about 437 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,860 big cuts in public service funding 438 00:15:24,860 --> 00:15:26,760 coming from the federal government at this time. 439 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,800 The state's lost about $11 million in Medicaid support. 440 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,040 There are some targeted cuts to 441 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,500 food stamp programs and planned parenthood, as well. 442 00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:35,500 Supporters of the Millionaires tax 443 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:37,300 would say the state needs this revenue 444 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:39,060 coming in to protect itself from 445 00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:41,380 more possible cuts ahead. What do you say to that? 446 00:15:41,380 --> 00:15:41,900 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Well, 447 00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:43,540 I do think that the state needs to 448 00:15:43,540 --> 00:15:45,880 look at where it needs to shore up its funding. 449 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,260 The reality is those cuts are 450 00:15:47,260 --> 00:15:48,640 about if you look at the numbers, 451 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,340 I've seen them about 350 million, 452 00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:51,930 which is not chump change. 453 00:15:51,930 --> 00:15:54,480 That doesn't necessarily mean you need to 454 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,680 expand an income tax to 455 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,160 every Washingtonian to pay for that. 456 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,820 Here are some examples, there 457 00:15:58,820 --> 00:16:00,600 are tens of millions of dollars of 458 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,580 overpayments or wrongful types of payments in DCYF. 459 00:16:04,580 --> 00:16:08,060 We could reduce the university administrative staff 460 00:16:08,060 --> 00:16:09,340 back to historic levels, 461 00:16:09,340 --> 00:16:13,470 and we could save almost 600 million by about 2029, 462 00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:16,100 they are within Department of Commerce, 463 00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:17,880 there's a navigator program that the auditor 464 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,275 continues to find pervasive problems, 465 00:16:20,275 --> 00:16:23,900 so my point is, we can start with some of these things, 466 00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:26,020 and we can look at the numbers holistically. 467 00:16:26,020 --> 00:16:28,440 We don't have to come up with 468 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,155 13 billion right now 469 00:16:30,155 --> 00:16:32,560 and here's the other thing so say we do that. 470 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,390 Say we get the 13 billion, say it starts tomorrow, 471 00:16:35,390 --> 00:16:37,340 we already know that's 472 00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:39,485 not enough for the planned spending, 473 00:16:39,485 --> 00:16:41,640 at some point, you do have to 474 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,240 prioritize because the reality is, 475 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:45,600 they're going to come for every 476 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,460 single one of us on the tax. 477 00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:48,700 Brian Callanan: I understand where you're going with 478 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:50,390 regard to comments on the state budget. 479 00:16:50,390 --> 00:16:51,940 I am trying to keep it focused as 480 00:16:51,940 --> 00:16:53,800 best I can on this measure here. 481 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,220 Did you have some thoughts about that? 482 00:16:55,220 --> 00:16:57,400 I did want to talk about these federal funding cuts 483 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,260 because I think that's a real problem for all us here. 484 00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:00,640 RIAN WATT: This week on Thursday, we're going to 485 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,460 see an estimated 11,000 more 486 00:17:02,460 --> 00:17:04,320 folks who are put in a position 487 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,840 where their healthcare coverage is at threat. 488 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,700 That's the shortfall that the state 489 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:10,140 is going to have to make a choice about how to 490 00:17:10,140 --> 00:17:11,630 respond to and that 491 00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:13,870 will certainly be a conversation in Olympia. 492 00:17:13,870 --> 00:17:16,290 We have seen sustained attack on 493 00:17:16,290 --> 00:17:17,370 our social safety net from 494 00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:19,690 the current administration in the other Washington, 495 00:17:19,690 --> 00:17:21,490 and those are choices that legislators 496 00:17:21,490 --> 00:17:23,750 have responded to and will have to. 497 00:17:23,910 --> 00:17:26,570 The fact is that right now 498 00:17:26,570 --> 00:17:29,130 our four year our budget over the next year 499 00:17:29,130 --> 00:17:31,690 two Bennia in Olympia requires this 500 00:17:31,690 --> 00:17:33,270 $13 billion from the Millionaires 501 00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:34,770 tax and if it is repealed, 502 00:17:34,770 --> 00:17:36,170 legislators are going to have to make 503 00:17:36,170 --> 00:17:37,925 some really tough choices about how to respond to 504 00:17:37,925 --> 00:17:40,200 that and it is already 505 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,640 clear coming up in 2027 that cuts are on the table. 506 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,620 The governor has called for an all cuts budget. 507 00:17:44,620 --> 00:17:46,560 Senior legislators are getting ready to make 508 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,960 those cuts and if they're 509 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,320 put in a position where the deficit 510 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,620 is not two to 4 billion, 511 00:17:51,620 --> 00:17:54,200 but is something on the order of 15 or 16 billion, 512 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,240 which could be the case if yes on 645 is successful, 513 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,360 those cuts are going to be very harsh and very 514 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:01,730 difficult for families across Washington to stomach. 515 00:18:01,730 --> 00:18:02,610 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: In that point, 516 00:18:02,610 --> 00:18:04,150 senior leader Jamie Peterson 517 00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:05,430 has said that cuts are off 518 00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:07,130 the table so you're telling me that 519 00:18:07,130 --> 00:18:09,470 they're going to have a two to 3 billion. 520 00:18:09,470 --> 00:18:10,040 RIAN WATT: That's not true. 521 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,050 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: They're already going to have 522 00:18:11,050 --> 00:18:14,090 a two to $3 billion excess need, 523 00:18:14,090 --> 00:18:15,990 for example, where are they going to get 524 00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:17,750 that money if they're not going to expand the income tax? 525 00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:18,800 RIAN WATT: I believe it's 526 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,370 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Exactly to the point. 527 00:18:20,370 --> 00:18:21,710 I'm not going to solve all the federal 528 00:18:21,710 --> 00:18:22,950 problems and the federal cuts, 529 00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:24,730 but I did give you a couple of examples that would 530 00:18:24,730 --> 00:18:27,110 have met the federal Medicaid cuts, 531 00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:28,850 right, we have gotten there. 532 00:18:28,850 --> 00:18:30,950 But the point is, they already know they don't have 533 00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:33,630 enough and they haven't talked about cuts. 534 00:18:33,630 --> 00:18:36,250 They have haven't there was a meeting up in Seattle 535 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:39,430 about two weeks ago widely attended by Democratic doors. 536 00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:41,550 It was off the record shockingly. 537 00:18:41,550 --> 00:18:43,270 But there was an admission that we're 538 00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:45,295 not going to be making cuts. 539 00:18:45,295 --> 00:18:47,350 RIAN WATT: It's hard to know how to respond to 540 00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:48,610 an off the record comment 541 00:18:48,610 --> 00:18:50,330 at apparently in a private event. 542 00:18:50,330 --> 00:18:51,890 But I can say I've heard the senator 543 00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:53,230 say in public that what is 544 00:18:53,230 --> 00:18:55,910 off the table for him personally is an all cuts budget, 545 00:18:55,910 --> 00:18:56,850 which is very different from 546 00:18:56,850 --> 00:18:57,950 saying cuts are off the table. 547 00:18:57,950 --> 00:18:59,990 Cuts are clearly on the table. 548 00:18:59,990 --> 00:19:01,770 Everyone in Olympia in leadership 549 00:19:01,770 --> 00:19:03,150 and otherwise is going to need to grapple 550 00:19:03,150 --> 00:19:05,590 with the fact that those cuts are 551 00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:08,205 going to have to be discussed and undertaken. 552 00:19:08,205 --> 00:19:08,950 Brian Callanan: Thank you. 553 00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:10,030 Jamie, let me jump back to you. 554 00:19:10,030 --> 00:19:11,670 I wanted to talk about kind 555 00:19:11,670 --> 00:19:13,530 of where voters are right now when it comes to 556 00:19:13,530 --> 00:19:14,950 taxing the rich and I'm looking back 557 00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:17,570 a couple of years to Initiative 20109, 558 00:19:17,570 --> 00:19:20,510 which was an attempt to repeal the capital gains tax. 559 00:19:20,510 --> 00:19:23,470 That failed. 64% of voters out there said, 560 00:19:23,470 --> 00:19:26,550 no, we want this extra tax on people who are wealthy. 561 00:19:26,550 --> 00:19:27,970 I just wanted to talk to you about that 562 00:19:27,970 --> 00:19:29,710 because I think that's a part of this conversation. 563 00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:31,910 People are into taxing the rich in this state. 564 00:19:31,910 --> 00:19:33,640 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Absolutely and here's the thing. 565 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,140 If laying on this income tax 566 00:19:37,140 --> 00:19:39,420 with that standard deduction at $1 million, 567 00:19:39,420 --> 00:19:41,040 we're going to solve the problem, 568 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,720 I think you'd have a different conversation. I really do. 569 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,460 I don't think you'd have as many Democrats joining 570 00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:48,095 the vote to repeal the income tax, 571 00:19:48,095 --> 00:19:50,320 and really, this isn't a conversation 572 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,920 about state spending and state priorities. 573 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,980 It really isn't my biggest concern 574 00:19:55,980 --> 00:19:59,300 here is that this was set up to expand to everyone, 575 00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:01,660 and that is what the lead sponsor has expressed. 576 00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:04,440 This is his desire, and they already have 577 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,420 the budget whole and they know that if 578 00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:08,600 it's four millionaires there was 579 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,080 a poll done that was in the news 580 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,580 yesterday that if they 581 00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:13,440 say it's going to cut healthcare and education, 582 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:14,860 which are important things to all of us. 583 00:20:14,860 --> 00:20:15,320 Brian Callanan: Yeah. 584 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,860 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Then voters will likely 585 00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:19,180 keep this income tax, 586 00:20:19,180 --> 00:20:21,160 but if voters know that 587 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,560 this is going to be expanded to all of them, 588 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,320 then this income tax will go down, 589 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,540 which is why there's an intentional mudding of the water 590 00:20:29,540 --> 00:20:30,820 and I think it's important to look at what 591 00:20:30,820 --> 00:20:32,920 they do, not just what they say. 592 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,560 They made it to where you can tax social security. 593 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,860 This would be the only state in the nation 594 00:20:38,860 --> 00:20:42,525 where there are no protections for social security. 595 00:20:42,525 --> 00:20:43,710 RIAN WATT: Congresswoman has just 596 00:20:43,710 --> 00:20:44,810 named a whole bunch of things that 597 00:20:44,810 --> 00:20:46,030 aren't happening and has laid 598 00:20:46,030 --> 00:20:47,350 out the reason why she's doing it, 599 00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:50,950 because voters support the no on 645 campaign. 600 00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:53,090 Voters understand they have a really simple choice. 601 00:20:53,090 --> 00:20:55,310 They can give a tax cut to millionaires, 602 00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:56,410 or they can maintain 603 00:20:56,410 --> 00:20:57,710 investments in the things that matter 604 00:20:57,710 --> 00:21:00,150 to them and because voters understand that choice, 605 00:21:00,150 --> 00:21:01,710 because as you mentioned, in 2024, 606 00:21:01,710 --> 00:21:04,510 32 of 39 Washington counties and over 60% of 607 00:21:04,510 --> 00:21:06,570 voters sustained a tax 608 00:21:06,570 --> 00:21:08,410 on some of the richest people in our state, 609 00:21:08,410 --> 00:21:10,570 the yes campaign is trying to change the subject and 610 00:21:10,570 --> 00:21:11,730 trying to scaremonger about 611 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:13,250 things that aren't on the ballot. 612 00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:14,990 That is clearly the strategy. 613 00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:17,070 The Congresswoman has laid out exactly why it's the case 614 00:21:17,070 --> 00:21:19,390 and if I was running a very unpopular campaign, 615 00:21:19,390 --> 00:21:20,655 it's probably what I'd be doing too. 616 00:21:20,655 --> 00:21:21,480 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Listen. 617 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,500 I do want a chance to respond to that, 618 00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:26,870 because I don't get the Millionaire deduction. 619 00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:28,050 I wish I did. I wish that was 620 00:21:28,050 --> 00:21:30,115 a problem I was grappling with. I'm not. 621 00:21:30,115 --> 00:21:32,090 I have worked for 622 00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:36,050 Washingtonians for most of my adult life and I've looked 623 00:21:36,050 --> 00:21:38,030 in the face of farmers and ranchers and 624 00:21:38,030 --> 00:21:39,210 small business owners and 625 00:21:39,210 --> 00:21:41,790 immigrants and people who have been successful, 626 00:21:41,790 --> 00:21:44,130 people who have single mothers who have four kids, 627 00:21:44,130 --> 00:21:45,670 two of whom who had disabilities, 628 00:21:45,670 --> 00:21:47,630 I know the faces I'm looking at 629 00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:50,280 when I'm thinking into the future about this tax. 630 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,595 If they did not want to expand it, 631 00:21:52,595 --> 00:21:54,230 and this is central to the point 632 00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:56,475 then why in the world would they remove 633 00:21:56,475 --> 00:21:59,335 protections to get pension payment, 634 00:21:59,335 --> 00:22:00,995 retiree pension payments? 635 00:22:00,995 --> 00:22:03,990 Why would they do that? Nobody makes that. 636 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:06,615 I have been around politicians enough to know. 637 00:22:06,615 --> 00:22:09,360 Don't listen to the words that they're saying. 638 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:10,760 I promise. I pinky promise. 639 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,390 I'm never going to tax you. Never mind 640 00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:13,660 that I said that two years ago, 641 00:22:13,660 --> 00:22:16,920 and I'm now undoing myself. Look at what they've done. 642 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,480 They've put every piece in place to make sure 643 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,180 it's expanded and the problem with that is, like, 644 00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:23,720 to your point, if we need to 645 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,660 change to an income tax system, 646 00:22:25,660 --> 00:22:27,480 because you feel like it's regressive, 647 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,760 let's have that debate. 648 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,520 Let's go before the people and tell them, 649 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,480 our intention is actually to tax 650 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,900 you as an income tax. Let's do this. 651 00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:35,170 Brian Callanan: Thank you. 652 00:22:35,170 --> 00:22:36,760 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: But let's not slide it 653 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,530 in with smoke and mirrors. 654 00:22:38,530 --> 00:22:39,440 Brian Callanan: I want to try to move 655 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,520 past this point, if I could, 656 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,100 and talk about some of the other issues 657 00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:43,800 here and Rian, let me start with you here. 658 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,900 I just want to talk about this idea 659 00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:48,780 that if 645 does go through, 660 00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:50,820 the Millionaires tax, excuse me, 661 00:22:50,820 --> 00:22:53,480 if 645 fails and the Millionaires tax stays in place, 662 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,900 it could make our state less competitive to attract 663 00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:57,600 big businesses and major 664 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:58,980 industries and keep them in the state. 665 00:22:58,980 --> 00:23:02,080 The region is seeing this steady trend of tech job cuts, 666 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,320 for example, things of this nature. 667 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:04,600 The argument goes, if you keep 668 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:05,860 a millionaires tax in place, 669 00:23:05,860 --> 00:23:07,280 you're stifling economic growth. 670 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,760 I want to make sure we touch on that. 671 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,700 RIAN WATT: Certainly. I spent a lot of 672 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:13,080 time talking to small businesses 673 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,620 and medium and large businesses 674 00:23:14,620 --> 00:23:16,555 from time to time and 675 00:23:16,555 --> 00:23:18,360 it's true that there's a lot of pressures that 676 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:20,160 those businesses face and we should all want 677 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,320 Washington to be a place where 678 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,560 great businesses are started, 679 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:23,940 where great businesses grow, 680 00:23:23,940 --> 00:23:25,460 and great businesses thrive. 681 00:23:25,460 --> 00:23:28,080 That's really clear. One of the major pressures 682 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,380 that these businesses face is that we have 683 00:23:30,380 --> 00:23:31,840 a business and occupation tax 684 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,140 that was put in place in the matter 685 00:23:33,140 --> 00:23:36,040 of a couple of months in the 1930s and which since then, 686 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,440 no other state has tried to copy because it's terrible. 687 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,300 You can't find anyone in this state 688 00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:42,200 who will defend the business and occupation tax, 689 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,380 certainly not myself, and I think 690 00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:44,805 not most business leaders. 691 00:23:44,805 --> 00:23:47,050 That's why this Millionaires tax included some of 692 00:23:47,050 --> 00:23:49,550 the largest small business tax breaks in state history, 693 00:23:49,550 --> 00:23:53,110 entirely eliminating B&O tax for a large class of 694 00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:54,500 small businesses and reducing it for 695 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:57,130 others and I would say, as well, 696 00:23:57,130 --> 00:23:59,090 with the $13 billion in revenue 697 00:23:59,090 --> 00:24:01,450 that the Millionaires tax is expected to bring in, 698 00:24:01,450 --> 00:24:04,010 it gives lawmakers the ability to explore 699 00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:05,950 some reforms to that business and occupation tax 700 00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:07,495 and try to get businesses some relief. 701 00:24:07,495 --> 00:24:08,810 Brian Callanan: Got it. Briefly, if you could, 702 00:24:08,810 --> 00:24:09,910 I want to get to closing statement. 703 00:24:09,910 --> 00:24:11,590 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: I definitely want to respond to this. 704 00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:14,230 The state may have passed a business tax cut, 705 00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:15,890 but that is on the heels of the largest 706 00:24:15,890 --> 00:24:17,750 business tax and tax increase 707 00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:19,435 in Washington state history, 708 00:24:19,435 --> 00:24:20,690 so giving back some of 709 00:24:20,690 --> 00:24:21,890 that money two years 710 00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:23,230 so they haven't gotten the money back. 711 00:24:23,230 --> 00:24:24,450 They started paying the tax last year. 712 00:24:24,450 --> 00:24:26,970 They'll get it back in two years if this stands. 713 00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:28,890 That's not relief. 714 00:24:28,890 --> 00:24:32,830 That's a partial refund with, like, 715 00:24:32,830 --> 00:24:35,430 strings attached and for the most part, 716 00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:37,150 those folks who could take advantage of 717 00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:38,450 this relief are the ones 718 00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:39,920 who will then be capped at growth. 719 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,140 A plumber will make about $125 a month in this credit, 720 00:24:44,140 --> 00:24:46,610 but if he wants to expand and put more money in and 721 00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:48,150 grow his two or three trucks 722 00:24:48,150 --> 00:24:49,790 to four or five trucks and hire more people, 723 00:24:49,790 --> 00:24:51,880 he bows right through that relief, 724 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,050 meaningful relief, if you want to layer on an income tax, 725 00:24:55,050 --> 00:24:56,570 let's get rid of the B&O tax. 726 00:24:56,570 --> 00:24:59,630 Let's lower the sales tax for every single Washingtonian. 727 00:24:59,630 --> 00:25:01,770 Let's truly make this less regressive, 728 00:25:01,770 --> 00:25:04,150 but let's not use a Trojan horse of 729 00:25:04,150 --> 00:25:05,710 class division in order to 730 00:25:05,710 --> 00:25:07,770 get this tax on to every Washingtonian. 731 00:25:07,770 --> 00:25:08,130 Brian Callanan: Thank you. 732 00:25:08,130 --> 00:25:09,490 It's time for some closing statements, 733 00:25:09,490 --> 00:25:10,635 Rian. You go first. 734 00:25:10,635 --> 00:25:14,200 RIAN WATT: Thank you. Look we've had a conversation today 735 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,200 where we've heard a lot about things that 736 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,760 aren't happening to distract from what is happening, 737 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,480 which is that some of the richest folks in 738 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,120 this state are trying to give themselves a tax cut, 739 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:25,940 and they're trying to pay for it by cutting 740 00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:28,640 funding for the things that matter to working families. 741 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,340 These are investments in K 12 education. 742 00:25:31,340 --> 00:25:32,740 These are investments in childcare 743 00:25:32,740 --> 00:25:34,220 and health care and higher education, 744 00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:35,820 things that we know lower costs for folks 745 00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:37,900 who are struggling with affordability crisis. 746 00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:39,460 These are the stakes. This is 747 00:25:39,460 --> 00:25:40,780 the choice in front of voters, 748 00:25:40,780 --> 00:25:42,380 and for that reason, I strongly urge 749 00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:43,900 a no vote on Initiative 645. 750 00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:45,320 Brian Callanan: Got it. I can give you a minute, please. 751 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,600 JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER: Yeah, please vote yes 752 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,140 on Initiative 645 to 753 00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:49,760 repeal the income tax 754 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,900 because voters here deserve to know the truth. 755 00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:55,000 Not one dime will be cut from health care or education. 756 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,500 If this initiative passes in five weeks, 757 00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:59,260 it is not part of the main bill. 758 00:25:59,260 --> 00:26:01,620 It is not legally binding that that money gets 759 00:26:01,620 --> 00:26:04,220 spent there and Olympia lawmakers voted 760 00:26:04,220 --> 00:26:05,580 to make sure this tax was in place 761 00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:07,060 and to make it easy for them to 762 00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:08,540 expand it to every Washington in 763 00:26:08,540 --> 00:26:10,320 without coming back for a vote of the people. 764 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,235 That pinky promise doesn't hold. 765 00:26:12,235 --> 00:26:15,290 In this bill, they erased longstanding protections for 766 00:26:15,290 --> 00:26:17,150 public employee pension checks and 767 00:26:17,150 --> 00:26:19,255 made Social Security vulnerable and 768 00:26:19,255 --> 00:26:21,030 the projected income from this tax will 769 00:26:21,030 --> 00:26:23,310 not cover their projected spending so 770 00:26:23,310 --> 00:26:24,610 we know they've put in place 771 00:26:24,610 --> 00:26:27,730 all the pieces to expand this to every Washingtonian. 772 00:26:27,730 --> 00:26:29,770 They want us to believe it's about millionaires, 773 00:26:29,770 --> 00:26:31,990 but the reality is they're going to expand 774 00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:34,270 it because that is what they've intended to do. 775 00:26:34,270 --> 00:26:35,610 I'm urging folks to vote yes on 776 00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:37,590 Initiative 645, join Republicans, 777 00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:39,230 independents and Democrats in 778 00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:41,310 telling lawmakers they need to do better. 779 00:26:41,310 --> 00:26:42,790 Brian Callanan: Thank you very much for that and 780 00:26:42,790 --> 00:26:44,800 we will be right back. 781 00:26:45,620 --> 00:26:50,010 What are people saying on social media about I 645, 782 00:26:50,010 --> 00:26:51,690 which would repeal the Millionaires 783 00:26:51,690 --> 00:26:53,290 tax in Washington State? 784 00:26:53,290 --> 00:26:57,340 One person writes, I am a highly compensated programmer. 785 00:26:57,340 --> 00:26:59,490 Being able to pay this tax is 786 00:26:59,490 --> 00:27:02,490 a privilege and a problem that I'll be happy to have. 787 00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:04,150 If I'm earning that much, 788 00:27:04,150 --> 00:27:06,670 I can easily afford to pay back to and 789 00:27:06,670 --> 00:27:09,770 support my community. Another person writes. 790 00:27:09,770 --> 00:27:11,370 It's not about whether you are 791 00:27:11,370 --> 00:27:13,530 willing/ happy to pay the tax. 792 00:27:13,530 --> 00:27:16,450 It's about how this tax should not be allowed by 793 00:27:16,450 --> 00:27:19,010 the state constitution and how it is 794 00:27:19,010 --> 00:27:21,990 certainly going to be expanded to lower tax brackets. 795 00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:23,825 We'd like to know what you think. 796 00:27:23,825 --> 00:27:25,885 Send us an email at CONTACT@ 797 00:27:25,885 --> 00:27:30,125 SEATTLECHANNEL.ORG or find us on social media. 798 00:27:30,125 --> 00:27:32,420 Well, that debate continues online, 799 00:27:32,420 --> 00:27:34,260 but that's all the time we have for on the show. 800 00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:35,660 A big thanks to Rian Watt of 801 00:27:35,660 --> 00:27:37,360 the Economic Opportunity Institute 802 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:38,860 and former congresswoman Jaime 803 00:27:38,860 --> 00:27:40,650 Herrera Beutler for coming on the program. 804 00:27:40,650 --> 00:27:41,040 RIAN WATT: Thank you. 805 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,340 Brian Callanan: I'm Brian Callanan. See you 806 00:27:42,340 --> 00:27:44,540 next time on City Inside Out.