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Seattle native and Central
District resident Vivian

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Phillips is a communications
professional and arts leader.

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She founded and launched Art
Noir online in May 2021 and

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in September 2022 opened as a
physical space in the historic

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Central District, showcasing
Black art and products

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made by Black creatives.

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Vivian led the public art plan
and led a community-based

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artist selection process for
Midtown Square, where Art

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Noir is the anchor tenant.

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Please give her a warm
welcome as she...

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Thank you.

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Thank you so much.

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Thank you, Vivian.

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I'm going to bring it
just a little bit closer.

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Thank you all so very much for
coming inside, out of the sun,

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out of this beautiful,
beautiful seafair weekend.

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I want you all to know that we
are also sorry that Marcus and

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Mayor Wilson was both
unable to join us.

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We are, we're going
to do something a

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little bit different.

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We've got a couple
of experts here.

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We're going to talk a
little bit about Seattle

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democracy as we know it,
but we're also going to

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talk about the content of
the Freedom Plane papers.

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And we're going to
attempt to give you some

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of your evening back.

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Would you like that?

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Would you like that?

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I don't hear that well, so
you're going to have to respond.

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It's a beautiful day.

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So it turns out to be a benefit.

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We're going to get our time
back before the sun goes down.

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But it is my absolute honor
to be here this evening

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and to have a chance to be
in conversation with these

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two incredible individuals.

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I had to go ladies first
because Leonard and I have

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known each other for 120 years.

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I know, half of the age of
the United States of America.

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But we're going to
get into it today.

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Please also welcome
Megan Ming Francis.

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She is the G.

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Alan and Barbara
Delsman Associate

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Professor of Political Science
and an associate professor of

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law, societies, and justice at
the University of Washington.

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She specializes in the
study of American politics.

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I love that so much.

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With broad interest in other
things that I love, which

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include constitutional law,
black political activism,

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critical, critical philanthropy,
and the post-Civil War South.

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She's the author of the
award-winning book, Civil

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Rights and the Making of the
Modern American State.

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And her research and
commentary have been featured

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on numerous news outlets.

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Frances is a proud alumni
of Seattle Public Schools.

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Yes, girl.

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And she is also an alumni of
Rice University in Houston

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and Princeton University,
where she received her

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M.A. and Ph.D.

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in politics.

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Please welcome Megan Francis.

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My dear friend, Leonard
Garfield, is the executive

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director of MOHAI.

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He is at the helm for all
activities at the museum,

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works with the Board of
Trustees, which I don't envy.

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I'm sorry, I just...

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Oh, that's okay.

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And he works with the community
to achieve the mission of MOHAI.

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Leonard holds an MA degree
in American culture from

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the University of Michigan
and has more than 30 years of

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experience managing regional
cultural organizations,

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six years as executive
director of the King County

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Office of Cultural Resources,
which is now 4Culture and

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that is where he directed
programs of the king county arts

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commission and the king
county landmarks and

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heritage commission I
don't see it in his bio

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that that's where we met
but you can you can correct

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that later normally in my bio

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Leonard served as Washington
State Historic Preservation

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Programs Manager, the
Wisconsin State Historic

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Preservation Historian,
and led MOHAI to its move

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to right here in Seattle's
Lake Union Park in 2012

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and launched MOHAI's Bezos
Center for Innovation in 2013.

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He's taught historic
preservation at the College of

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Architecture and Urban Design at
the University of Washington.

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And among his writings,
he is the co-author

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of Built in Washington, an
Architectural History of the

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State, published by WSU Press.

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Welcome, Leonard Garfield.

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So as we know, we're
going to have a much

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different conversation.

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Well, we're going to have a
different conversation than

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the one we originally intended.

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But I think it gives us a
little bit more time, Leonard,

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if we can start with you to
really talk about the Freedom

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Plane exhibits, what it was
that you envisioned when MOHAI

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went forward to secure this
as the last stop on the tour.

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And what is it that you are
hopeful that Seattle residents

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would get from having exposure
to these founding documents?

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Well, it's really an
extraordinary opportunity

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for MOHAI and for Seattle.

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How many of you have
had a chance to see

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the documents upstairs?

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Almost everybody.

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So I really should be asking
the question of you in a way.

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But this was to me the most
meaningful way to commemorate

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and reflect on America's 250th
anniversary because what's

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so unique about these
doc oh I'm sorry thank

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you thank you for uh let
me know they said to bring

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it really close and I
didn't listen to them but

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what's so exciting about
these documents to me to

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see them in person is we
see them changing in the

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moment the deck of the
Bill of Rights that's up

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there did you notice that
certain rights have been

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crossed out the Constitution
that's up there has

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handwritten notes of edits
Corrections changes to me

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it's a reflection of that
phrasing the Constitution

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toward a more perfect union,
recognizing, and these

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documents prove it, that
it was never complete.

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It was far, far from perfect.

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And yet people at that time,

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at that very moment, were
beginning to change it.

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And that responsibility has now

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come to us.

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It's up to us to make
the changes that

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that we want to make within this
framework that we were given

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of the ideal, the aspiration
of equality, of liberty,

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of self-governance that never
was fully or even partly,

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partially,
fragmentally realized.

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But the course of
American history

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has constantly been addressing
that with steps forward

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and steps back.

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But from the day those
documents were created,

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people were changing them.

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That's who we are.

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We can change those.

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And so what I wanted,
Vivian, was people to see

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these documents and to feel
empowered to know that

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the power is in our hands.

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It's not in the White House.

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It's not in Congress.

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It's not in the Supreme Court.

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There's a heck of a lot
of power residing there.

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But the biggest power in
the American democratic

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system is the power of the
people, and that's what

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those documents represent.

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So can I assume that this is
not an exhibit that was planned

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to be at MOHAI a long time ago?

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This was a great opportunity
when the National Archives

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thought we can keep these
documents in vaults.

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And literally these documents,
when they leave here, will be

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in a vault for the next decade
because they literally cannot

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be exposed to light and air.

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So this is a really
rare opportunity.

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And they wanted to do something
to really take, much in the

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spirit of these documents,
to take democracy to

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the people and to allow
communities to see it.

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So eight cities across the
country have been selected.

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None of them were part of
the original 13 colonies.

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This has not been
to the 13 colonies.

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And now it's in the other
Washington, about as far

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away from the traditional
Washington as you can get.

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But we thought this, when we
were approached about hosting

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this, and the only condition was
that you have the conservation

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standards, so the climate's
very rigorously controlled, the

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security is heightened over
what we normally would do, but

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also that you make it free.

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And we love it every time
we can make something free.

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And we decide, let's not just
make the documents free,

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because Seattle's history is
also part of this history,

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so let's make the
whole museum free

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and talk about the history
that we all know and love,

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because you know what?

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It's all, as the professor
knows, it's all connected.

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It's all connected.

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I love what you said about
the power of people to change

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what our government, what our
system of democracy looks like,

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And a lot of that is the focus
of some of the permanent

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exhibits that are here,
specifically the ones that

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deal with activism in Seattle.

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Before we talk about activism
and before I even ask you

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the first question that you
know I'm going to ask you,

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Professor Megan Francis,
I want to know how is it

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that you became interested
to the degree that you

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are in American politics?

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I didn't know.

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So that question was not coming.

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Hey, everyone.

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I'm Megan Francis.

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It's really good to be here.

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Thank you, Vivian, so much for
curating this conversation

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and to MOHAI and to all of
you who are spending part

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of your evening with us.

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Um, uh, yeah.

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So I grew up in the Mount
Baker, Columbia city area

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in Seattle in the eighties.

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And then I went to Garfield
high school in the nineties.

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And I remember I took
like the, I don't know if

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they even still have them.

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I took like the PSATs and then
I was going to go to, uh, I

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was trying to figure out
how to go to college.

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And at Garfield, there's like
one counselor for like, at

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the time for 450 students.

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So you had to do it yourself.

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But I had a group of my friends
at Garfield who were like,

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these are the colleges I'm
going to and I want to go to.

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And another group of my friends
who were like, huh, what, who?

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Maybe I'll go to UW.

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Maybe I'll go to Eastern.

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Maybe I won't go.

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I got to take care
of my parents.

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And I was like, what
is going on here?

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And so like that was
actually for me,

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even though there were a
lot of other signs for me,

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but there was this
moment where I felt like

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so many of my friends
were going in different

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directions, and it
wasn't because one group

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of friends was smarter than
the other group of friends,

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but had a different set of
life possibilities before

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And I did not understand
that as a 16, 17-year-old

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person growing up in Seattle.

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So then I went to Rice
University, and I was

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like, "I'm about to be
a computer scientist."

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I did leave out that I did
an internship at Microsoft

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back in the day-day.

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And I was like, "I'm going
to be a computer scientist.

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I'm going to come
back to Seattle.

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I'm going to drive around in a
Porsche like my manager did.

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And that's going to be my life.

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And so that was my major when
I went to Rice University.

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That's why I went
to Rice, actually.

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And I was like, I
hate these classes.

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These are terrible classes.

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And then I did
what I told myself

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that I would never actually do,
which I tell all my students

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to do at UW, which is
just to take classes

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that you're interested in.

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That sound interesting.

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Like, how do you become like,
this is the beauty of, not

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Rice, but like well-rounded
liberal arts education, right?

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Is that like, you take
the classics even though

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you're like, what can I do
with that degree, right?

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But because it's interesting.

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So I took, I was like,
what's political science?

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What's econ?

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What's history?

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What's Caribbean
nation building?

247
00:12:02,918 --> 00:12:05,697
And so I took all these
classes and then all of a

248
00:12:05,697 --> 00:12:08,839
sudden all of the things
that didn't make sense like

249
00:12:08,839 --> 00:12:12,721
all these puzzle pieces In
my life started to move into

250
00:12:12,721 --> 00:12:16,792
fit. I'm like, oh the reason why
This happened in my community

251
00:12:16,792 --> 00:12:19,647
in Seattle is because there's
economic inequality and

252
00:12:19,647 --> 00:12:22,440
that leads people to live
in different neighborhoods

253
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,562
Oh because of this because
there's power that

254
00:12:24,562 --> 00:12:25,677
works in local politics

255
00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:28,840
This is why things
work the way they do.

256
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,048
This is the reason why
Garfield was over-policed and

257
00:12:32,048 --> 00:12:33,580
the CD at that time was...

258
00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:38,302
And so for me, I got interested
in politics and specifically

259
00:12:38,302 --> 00:12:40,759
American politics because...

260
00:12:40,759 --> 00:12:43,359
And this is my selfish reason,
but it's my honest reason,

261
00:12:43,359 --> 00:12:45,899
which is that it helped
me make sense of my life.

262
00:12:47,038 --> 00:12:49,038
And so that is like...

263
00:12:49,038 --> 00:12:50,720
And it has continued.

264
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,740
The reason why, and this is
where I'll end on this question,

265
00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:56,980
is the reason why I've stayed
in this interest in politics

266
00:12:58,298 --> 00:13:02,480
is because of a really
curiosity about power

267
00:13:03,778 --> 00:13:06,480
and a belief that a deeper
understanding of that,

268
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,940
like politics shapes
our entire world.

269
00:13:08,940 --> 00:13:10,960
I teach a survey course
at UW right now,

270
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,533
and so it's politics
majors, but it's mostly not

271
00:13:13,533 --> 00:13:14,759
politics majors, right?

272
00:13:14,759 --> 00:13:16,879
And what I say, I was like,
you can go into medicine,

273
00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:20,158
you can go into marketing,
you can go into the arts,

274
00:13:20,158 --> 00:13:22,557
but you're never
escaping politics.

275
00:13:22,557 --> 00:13:23,720
You're just not.

276
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,326
And so you might as well
as try to understand

277
00:13:26,326 --> 00:13:28,504
a little bit about it
so you can understand

278
00:13:28,504 --> 00:13:30,399
your world better and
how to navigate that.

279
00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:33,918
It is a tool in a toolbox, and
do not leave it on the table,

280
00:13:33,918 --> 00:13:35,240
especially not in this universe.

281
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:36,158
I love that.

282
00:13:36,158 --> 00:13:37,320
I'm glad I thought of that.

283
00:13:38,418 --> 00:13:40,580
I'm glad I thought
to ask you that.

284
00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:45,062
You know, back before the
earth broke up when I was

285
00:13:45,062 --> 00:13:50,200
in high school, we used to
study contemporary problems.

286
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,879
That's what it was called then.

287
00:13:51,879 --> 00:13:57,080
And that's where you got your-so
you know I was a long time ago.

288
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,480
Some of you all have been in
one of my classes, I'm sure.

289
00:14:02,778 --> 00:14:05,580
But that's when we learned
about American politics.

290
00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:07,620
That's when we learned
about history.

291
00:14:07,620 --> 00:14:10,721
And it seems that that's
all gone from the

292
00:14:10,721 --> 00:14:12,639
curriculums these days.

293
00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:16,139
It's like trying to keep up
with the tech industry is more

294
00:14:16,139 --> 00:14:19,860
important than understanding
and making sense of the world

295
00:14:19,860 --> 00:14:21,500
in which you are residing.

296
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:26,302
So the other question I want
to ask you is, given your vast

297
00:14:26,302 --> 00:14:31,514
knowledge of American politics
and looking at America being

298
00:14:31,514 --> 00:14:36,320
250 years old, these papers
are celebrating 250, right?

299
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,360
So why are they still
relevant today?

300
00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:40,418
Okay, so I love this.

301
00:14:40,418 --> 00:14:41,860
I knew this question
was coming, though.

302
00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:46,500
I think that, so I'm going
to try to answer this,

303
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:47,798
I think, in two ways.

304
00:14:47,798 --> 00:14:51,519
One, the case that I make to my
students in any introduction

305
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:53,418
course in American politics.

306
00:14:53,418 --> 00:14:56,350
Oh, I'm going to do a little
backup, if that's okay,

307
00:14:56,350 --> 00:14:57,677
to a connecting story.

308
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,533
I initially finished my PhD
teaching American politics,

309
00:15:02,533 --> 00:15:05,519
well, teaching courses
around American politics.

310
00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:07,460
And I was like, I don't want
to teach a survey course.

311
00:15:07,460 --> 00:15:08,340
Why am I going to
teach a survey course?

312
00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:09,200
That's boring.

313
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,820
old documents, old
people, dead people.

314
00:15:11,820 --> 00:15:14,038
I want to teach more about
contemporary problems,

315
00:15:14,038 --> 00:15:16,125
like social movements,
which I hope we can talk

316
00:15:16,125 --> 00:15:17,080
about today as well.

317
00:15:18,379 --> 00:15:21,320
And then my first job was
at Pepperdine University

318
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,080
in Malibu, California.

319
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:28,094
And I taught a lot there,
and I realized the

320
00:15:28,094 --> 00:15:31,134
importance of it
just in terms of

321
00:15:31,134 --> 00:15:33,850
providing a landscape to
understand everything

322
00:15:33,850 --> 00:15:35,259
else that comes afterwards.

323
00:15:35,259 --> 00:15:39,374
I'm somebody that also
believes the kind of the

324
00:15:39,374 --> 00:15:43,700
juicy part of politics is
actually the gray area.

325
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,360
I'm actually not that interested
in what's black and white,

326
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,038
like what's clearly defined.

327
00:15:50,038 --> 00:15:53,278
And that is my roundabout way
of getting to this question,

328
00:15:53,278 --> 00:15:56,315
which is I think what is so
exciting about the founding

329
00:15:56,315 --> 00:15:59,552
documents and the case that I
make to my students right now

330
00:15:59,552 --> 00:16:02,859
is that this was a time in which
there was just ideas, right?

331
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,399
Jefferson's cribbing,
right, from the ideas

332
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:07,480
of the Enlightenment.

333
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,778
He's like, okay, like
pursuit of happiness.

334
00:16:09,778 --> 00:16:12,120
What are things that
we should want, right?

335
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,581
This idea about, like, we
have these things now,

336
00:16:15,581 --> 00:16:17,139
but what does it mean?

337
00:16:17,139 --> 00:16:21,013
can you envision like we spoke
I feel like we don't talk about

338
00:16:21,013 --> 00:16:24,043
it a lot now but I feel like
early in like 2020 there

339
00:16:24,043 --> 00:16:27,134
was a lot of conversation
especially in left circles

340
00:16:27,134 --> 00:16:30,254
around imagination and the
importance of imagination

341
00:16:30,254 --> 00:16:33,418
and dreaming what a better
world would actually look like

342
00:16:33,418 --> 00:16:36,572
and that's in some ways kind of
what they did they were like

343
00:16:36,572 --> 00:16:39,899
we don't like being governed
by by Britain, right?

344
00:16:39,899 --> 00:16:42,139
And so what does
it actually mean

345
00:16:42,139 --> 00:16:45,298
to envision what a better world
would actually look like?

346
00:16:45,298 --> 00:16:47,360
We're not there yet.

347
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,220
And so we're going to
draft a bunch of ideas

348
00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:57,120
and have it as our North Star
and like stumble along the way

349
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,519
to get there.

350
00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:00,840
But like maybe
future generations

351
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,139
can actually get there.

352
00:17:02,139 --> 00:17:04,259
And I think it's
also really useful

353
00:17:04,259 --> 00:17:07,904
in terms of what does it mean
to envision a world that you

354
00:17:07,904 --> 00:17:12,125
may not experience right now,
but being able to perhaps

355
00:17:12,125 --> 00:17:13,759
work towards that.

356
00:17:13,759 --> 00:17:16,817
It's that same plant trees
that you will never,

357
00:17:16,817 --> 00:17:20,160
whose shades you will
never experience.

358
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,900
And like in some ways, that's
what they were doing, right?

359
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:23,660
Did they, right?

360
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:25,880
Did the framers or
the founding fathers,

361
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,857
whatever word phrase
that you want to use,

362
00:17:28,857 --> 00:17:30,480
did they envision
this world right now?

363
00:17:31,538 --> 00:17:32,240
Yeah, right.

364
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,788
But I think that the part
that is also really exciting

365
00:17:35,788 --> 00:17:39,500
about that is to look at that
as these were the documents

366
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:41,597
that helped frame this moment.

367
00:17:41,597 --> 00:17:45,544
And that then generations
of different people have

368
00:17:45,544 --> 00:17:48,019
interpreted in different ways.

369
00:17:48,019 --> 00:17:50,557
Like have taken these ideals
and have been like this

370
00:17:50,557 --> 00:17:53,097
is what freedom, this is
what equality should mean.

371
00:17:53,097 --> 00:17:54,357
This is what justice
should mean.

372
00:17:54,357 --> 00:17:56,857
This is actually who
we the people are.

373
00:17:56,857 --> 00:17:57,597
It's actually women.

374
00:17:57,597 --> 00:17:59,117
It's actually people
who don't own land.

375
00:17:59,117 --> 00:18:00,480
It's actually black people.

376
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,900
It's actually Asian people.

377
00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:05,798
So all of this comes afterwards.

378
00:18:05,798 --> 00:18:10,000
And it's not that necessarily
these documents gave them that,

379
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,380
but it provided a
type of framework.

380
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:13,700
And I think it's really useful.

381
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:18,700
I think we always should be
in a place of imagination,

382
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,000
definitely now, of what a
better democracy, of what

383
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,500
what a better country, what a
better government looks like.

384
00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:31,181
But at the same time, and this
is why I see her, which is that

385
00:18:31,181 --> 00:18:33,298
then there is another case.

386
00:18:33,298 --> 00:18:36,506
My colleague, my senior
colleague, George Lovell at the

387
00:18:36,506 --> 00:18:39,463
University of Washington,
him and I two years ago, we

388
00:18:39,463 --> 00:18:42,759
started teaching a new course
because of this moment that we

389
00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:45,240
are in called Can
Democracy Be Saved?

390
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,198
question mark.

391
00:18:46,198 --> 00:18:48,847
And then where he's the
kind of person where

392
00:18:48,847 --> 00:18:50,837
he's like, this is the founding.

393
00:18:50,837 --> 00:18:54,713
And then I'm the person in that
class and in that course, who's

394
00:18:54,713 --> 00:18:56,160
like, what's the case?

395
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,319
Like, maybe like, it's also

396
00:18:58,319 --> 00:19:02,577
true. And that maybe we
should, this is not working.

397
00:19:04,077 --> 00:19:07,240
This is not working right
now government right now

398
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,180
especially at the federal
level is not working

399
00:19:10,180 --> 00:19:13,852
in many many ways and
what is wrong with saying

400
00:19:13,852 --> 00:19:17,617
hey we might need to
rewrite a new constitution

401
00:19:17,617 --> 00:19:20,347
and a new set of people
and new values right now

402
00:19:20,347 --> 00:19:23,077
many big countries we're
the only with that we

403
00:19:23,077 --> 00:19:25,487
We have the longest, oldest,
constitution, I mean not

404
00:19:25,487 --> 00:19:27,519
the longest, shortest,
oldest constitution

405
00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:28,500
that's still in place.

406
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:33,798
And so why are we continuing
to salvage and reclaim this?

407
00:19:33,798 --> 00:19:37,141
There is a very strong case
that many people have made

408
00:19:37,141 --> 00:19:41,740
that perhaps what we need to do
is in terms of appreciate what

409
00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:46,596
has happened in the past and
what we were given and then

410
00:19:46,597 --> 00:19:48,740
then try again and
write something that

411
00:19:48,740 --> 00:19:49,778
is more inclusive.

412
00:19:49,778 --> 00:19:52,460
I guess, you know,
when I think about it,

413
00:19:52,460 --> 00:19:55,538
I think that maybe
that's what's happening.

414
00:19:55,538 --> 00:19:59,557
And maybe, is it possible
that people are reimagining

415
00:20:00,817 --> 00:20:04,940
what America should
or can look like,

416
00:20:04,940 --> 00:20:08,400
and it's just maybe not
the most popular thought?

417
00:20:09,798 --> 00:20:12,660
Is that possible that that's
what's happening as well

418
00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:15,737
as you know the necessity to
kind of take the documents

419
00:20:15,737 --> 00:20:19,125
and go let's rewrite them
I have to tell you that

420
00:20:19,125 --> 00:20:23,278
going back in and looking
at the Constitution and

421
00:20:23,278 --> 00:20:27,509
thinking about the the
founding papers it was a

422
00:20:27,509 --> 00:20:32,518
little bit of a surprise
reminder that the Constitution

423
00:20:32,518 --> 00:20:34,726
is a very short document.

424
00:20:34,726 --> 00:20:37,880
It's the amendments
that extend far

425
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,097
beyond. So I'm wondAarong
what your thoughts are

426
00:20:41,097 --> 00:20:44,160
about the possibility,
both of you can answer

427
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,740
this, the possibility
of us being in a moment

428
00:20:47,740 --> 00:20:51,900
where the Constitution is
going to be amended more.

429
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:54,275
Yeah. Well, you know, it's
interesting because almost

430
00:20:54,275 --> 00:20:56,492
from the beginning, well,
the Bill of Rights was the

431
00:20:56,492 --> 00:20:57,577
first set of amendments.

432
00:20:57,577 --> 00:20:59,153
I mean, almost from
the beginning.

433
00:20:59,153 --> 00:21:00,076
Yeah. Wait a second.

434
00:21:00,076 --> 00:21:01,759
There's missing
this, this and that.

435
00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:04,221
And protests against
that, Shays' Rebellion.

436
00:21:04,221 --> 00:21:05,923
I mean, all these protests, some

437
00:21:05,923 --> 00:21:08,700
of them were armed and
violent, happened right away.

438
00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:12,557
So there was always this
dynamism built into the system.

439
00:21:12,557 --> 00:21:15,981
And, of course, Jefferson used
the phrase in the Declaration,

440
00:21:15,981 --> 00:21:19,144
I'm going to forget the exact
wording, but there are times

441
00:21:19,144 --> 00:21:22,433
when a government does need to
reinvent itself and does need

442
00:21:22,433 --> 00:21:24,278
to have a revolution, basically.

443
00:21:24,278 --> 00:21:27,798
And the Constitution frames it
as toward a more perfect union.

444
00:21:27,798 --> 00:21:31,573
So the notion that it is organic
in many ways and should be

445
00:21:31,573 --> 00:21:33,419
organic to keep it vibrant.

446
00:21:33,420 --> 00:21:36,477
But I think, and I would turn
to Megan for an understanding

447
00:21:36,477 --> 00:21:39,535
on this, but the amendments
to the Constitution happened

448
00:21:39,535 --> 00:21:42,720
fairly frequently through the
19th and early 20th century.

449
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,046
And then suddenly, and
actually it was the Equal

450
00:21:45,046 --> 00:21:46,500
Rights Amendment, wasn't it?

451
00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:48,972
Although we got the 18-year-old
vote came, slipped in

452
00:21:48,972 --> 00:21:50,019
there and a few others.

453
00:21:50,019 --> 00:21:53,313
But it seemed to come, and
it's partly the sclerosis

454
00:21:53,313 --> 00:21:56,298
in our own political
system of recent decades.

455
00:21:56,298 --> 00:21:59,500
The amendment process
has really stopped.

456
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:03,740
And there's a whole lot actually
historically about that whole

457
00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:08,057
system is predicated on the way,
you know, votes are attributed,

458
00:22:08,057 --> 00:22:12,140
which, of course, goes back to
the Constitution and how human

459
00:22:12,140 --> 00:22:16,298
beings were treated in terms of
who was counted and who wasn't.

460
00:22:16,298 --> 00:22:18,778
But it's become very difficult
to amend the Constitution.

461
00:22:18,778 --> 00:22:22,673
I think one of the fears of
seriously changing it, to

462
00:22:22,673 --> 00:22:27,434
Megan's point, is the fear that,
whoa, would it end up in a

463
00:22:27,434 --> 00:22:32,650
situation where the result
of that would be something

464
00:22:32,650 --> 00:22:34,616
that would be scary?

465
00:22:35,778 --> 00:22:39,480
But what is your thought
about the amendment process?

466
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,332
Or, you know, is that a
viable tool still for

467
00:22:43,332 --> 00:22:45,900
evolving the Constitution?

468
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:48,097
I think it's a tool
that's on the table.

469
00:22:48,097 --> 00:22:49,885
Right now, in terms
of the amendment

470
00:22:49,885 --> 00:22:51,077
process, I don't see it.

471
00:22:51,077 --> 00:22:56,030
It's so, everything is so
gummed up at the federal level

472
00:22:56,030 --> 00:23:00,876
that that process is going
to be, that's not a process.

473
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,759
like let's say that there's
a change that I want,

474
00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:06,163
that's not going to be
an avenue, a route right

475
00:23:06,163 --> 00:23:07,959
now that I would pursue.

476
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:15,940
I don't see any new amendments
happening in areas that for me

477
00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:18,326
that I would like them to
happen, which is I think

478
00:23:18,326 --> 00:23:21,961
that's why there has been, I
feel like increased energy

479
00:23:21,961 --> 00:23:25,634
and, you know, like the
likelihood of it or not

480
00:23:25,634 --> 00:23:29,794
about kind of reestablishing
a new constitutional

481
00:23:29,794 --> 00:23:34,337
convention and like what would
that actually look like.

482
00:23:34,337 --> 00:23:37,355
There are things that, you
know, met all of us here

483
00:23:37,355 --> 00:23:40,153
on this panel and many
other people talk about

484
00:23:40,153 --> 00:23:43,538
that are deeply undemocratic
about the Constitution.

485
00:23:43,538 --> 00:23:46,837
I feel like the two things
most people always pull out.

486
00:23:46,837 --> 00:23:50,336
And still, every single time
I teach American politics,

487
00:23:50,336 --> 00:23:53,460
it is still crazy, which
is the Electoral College.

488
00:23:53,460 --> 00:23:56,798
It's just so insane, right?

489
00:23:56,798 --> 00:24:02,577
It's built and conceived on an
idea that we don't trust people.

490
00:24:02,577 --> 00:24:06,720
Like, this is the whole
point of a, right?

491
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,143
And then the other part
here is going to be the

492
00:24:10,143 --> 00:24:14,400
Senate and, like, how things
are proportioned, right?

493
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,260
That certain states have
so much more power in the

494
00:24:17,260 --> 00:24:18,940
Senate than other states do.

495
00:24:18,940 --> 00:24:21,683
So you're talking about
gerrymandAarong and districting

496
00:24:21,683 --> 00:24:23,857
and all of that and how
that's going to impact.

497
00:24:23,857 --> 00:24:28,009
Yeah, and there's certain
aspects about things that

498
00:24:28,009 --> 00:24:29,900
have changed over time.

499
00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:34,250
Now, unlike when the
Constitution was passed, we

500
00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:37,117
people vote on senators, right?

501
00:24:37,117 --> 00:24:39,250
Where before in the
Constitution, those

502
00:24:39,250 --> 00:24:41,700
were appointed by state
legislatures, right?

503
00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:44,220
But that has been done
because of amendment.

504
00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:47,450
But that has - but the process
of getting amendments because

505
00:24:47,450 --> 00:24:50,741
of where we are in politics, it
is unlikely that there's going

506
00:24:50,741 --> 00:24:53,845
to be a - that things are going
to - kind of the divisiveness

507
00:24:53,845 --> 00:24:57,333
in politics and the polarization
that exists right now in United

508
00:24:57,333 --> 00:25:00,432
States politics is going to
dramatically decrease in the

509
00:25:00,432 --> 00:25:01,919
next decade or two decades.

510
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,960
That's just - it's
unlikely to happen, right?

511
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,557
I think the exciting
aspects are people who are

512
00:25:08,557 --> 00:25:10,160
thinking outside of the box.

513
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,289
I think what's frustrating
for, I wouldn't even say

514
00:25:13,289 --> 00:25:16,594
just young people right now,
is people who are trying

515
00:25:16,594 --> 00:25:19,160
to figure out work
inside of the system.

516
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,857
And so this is the call for
people who are like, let's

517
00:25:21,857 --> 00:25:24,557
think of new solutions
because this is not working.

518
00:25:24,557 --> 00:25:27,621
And at what point are you like,
democracy is on the guardrails,

519
00:25:27,621 --> 00:25:28,740
democracy is fragile.

520
00:25:28,740 --> 00:25:33,278
Are you like, we are no
longer in a democracy, right?

521
00:25:33,278 --> 00:25:34,857
And we need to say that.

522
00:25:34,857 --> 00:25:37,259
That's some people,
many of my students.

523
00:25:37,259 --> 00:25:39,660
And we need to say that and
then work towards things.

524
00:25:39,660 --> 00:25:41,527
There's a whole other
group of my students who

525
00:25:41,527 --> 00:25:42,557
would be like, no, no, no.

526
00:25:42,557 --> 00:25:46,382
There is so much good here
that still can be, like,

527
00:25:46,382 --> 00:25:48,337
reclaimed and salvaged.

528
00:25:48,337 --> 00:25:50,538
We just need better politicians.

529
00:25:50,538 --> 00:25:52,798
We need more young
people in office.

530
00:25:52,798 --> 00:25:56,660
We need these old people to
stop dying in office, right?

531
00:25:56,660 --> 00:25:57,317
That's what they tell me.

532
00:25:57,317 --> 00:25:58,960
I'm like, okay, okay, right?

533
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,636
We need more just policy, right?

534
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,180
We need better local governance,
better state governance.

535
00:26:05,180 --> 00:26:06,357
This is what they will say.

536
00:26:06,357 --> 00:26:10,097
And their interest is
really about a deep belief

537
00:26:10,097 --> 00:26:12,259
in something that you
have already mentioned

538
00:26:12,259 --> 00:26:15,380
in the role of different
types of social movements.

539
00:26:15,380 --> 00:26:18,440
And they really view like that
is, at least in their minds,

540
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,000
especially a number
of my students,

541
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,460
have come up through
climate justice,

542
00:26:22,460 --> 00:26:27,857
have come up through guns in
terms of like thinking about

543
00:26:27,857 --> 00:26:30,577
what are different young
people movements around that,

544
00:26:30,577 --> 00:26:34,798
and they see that as a type
of reclamation and evidence

545
00:26:36,117 --> 00:26:39,759
that democracy, at least in
this country, still works.

546
00:26:39,759 --> 00:26:43,269
I wonder, for both of
you, when I look at any

547
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:48,228
parts of the Constitution, the
Bill of Rights, any of those

548
00:26:48,228 --> 00:26:50,672
documents, I see duplicity.

549
00:26:50,672 --> 00:26:53,317
I see an ideal,
but I see nothing

550
00:26:53,317 --> 00:26:57,847
that supports the
actualization of that ideal.

551
00:26:57,847 --> 00:27:02,038
So, I mean, when we're
talking about why it's

552
00:27:02,038 --> 00:27:07,451
important why is it important
when it doesn't have

553
00:27:07,451 --> 00:27:13,307
inherent in it the kind of
authentic care for humanity

554
00:27:13,307 --> 00:27:18,557
that we read it as well I
mean I think that reminds

555
00:27:18,557 --> 00:27:21,326
me of something Megan
said which was this was a

556
00:27:21,326 --> 00:27:25,237
revolutionary concept just an
ideal aspirational obviously

557
00:27:25,237 --> 00:27:28,337
not even close to being
realized to some extent I

558
00:27:28,337 --> 00:27:30,659
I think they understood that
it wasn't close to realization

559
00:27:30,660 --> 00:27:32,740
because there was a lot of
discussion about slavery

560
00:27:32,740 --> 00:27:34,960
and the immorality or
justification for it,

561
00:27:36,057 --> 00:27:37,788
obviously among Jefferson,
but even among George

562
00:27:37,788 --> 00:27:38,940
Washington and other people.

563
00:27:38,940 --> 00:27:40,980
They debated it all the time.

564
00:27:40,980 --> 00:27:42,700
So it wasn't just
that's how things were.

565
00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:45,500
They consciously were
acting in contrast

566
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:47,499
to the ideals they stated.

567
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:49,337
But what's so
interesting about it

568
00:27:49,337 --> 00:27:53,180
is that they framed up
ideals that then inspired

569
00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:56,278
not only the United States, but
so many countries around the

570
00:27:56,278 --> 00:27:59,336
world, the French Revolution,
the Russian Revolution,

571
00:27:59,337 --> 00:28:03,778
the Pan-African movements
towards independent countries,

572
00:28:03,778 --> 00:28:07,342
all were heavily influenced
by the ideals stated

573
00:28:07,342 --> 00:28:08,817
in those documents.

574
00:28:08,817 --> 00:28:11,443
And one of the things that
I think maybe one note of

575
00:28:11,443 --> 00:28:14,323
optimism we can take is
that in recent polls of the

576
00:28:14,323 --> 00:28:17,519
American people, the
ideals of the Declaration,

577
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:19,009
I mean, you would think
this would be, as

578
00:28:19,009 --> 00:28:19,960
they say, self-evident.

579
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,159
I mean, of course people
should believe this, but

580
00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:23,336
we know how divided we are.

581
00:28:23,337 --> 00:28:25,900
We know how hard it is to get a
majority to agree to anything,

582
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:28,116
that the ideals of
life, liberty, and the

583
00:28:28,116 --> 00:28:30,759
pursuit of happiness,
that all people are

584
00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:33,817
created equal, rank
in the 90 percentile.

585
00:28:33,817 --> 00:28:36,380
I mean, and that's one
thing that across the

586
00:28:36,380 --> 00:28:38,895
political spectrum, and
of course that's the

587
00:28:38,895 --> 00:28:41,557
lowest bar you could possibly
set in today's world,

588
00:28:41,557 --> 00:28:44,597
and yet that is a bar that
there is some commonality.

589
00:28:44,597 --> 00:28:48,093
So I think what the value of
those documents are is simply

590
00:28:48,093 --> 00:28:51,660
the framing up of there is a
better world that we can create

591
00:28:51,660 --> 00:28:54,169
And that is really our
responsibility to do it.

592
00:28:54,169 --> 00:28:56,421
Nobody's going to do it
for us and you know,

593
00:28:56,421 --> 00:28:57,576
nobody did it for them

594
00:28:58,759 --> 00:29:00,507
Nobody did it for all
the people who fought to

595
00:29:00,507 --> 00:29:01,640
expand those those freedoms

596
00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:05,240
You know as you know
Vivian because you've

597
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,038
been part of that history
nobody said here's a right that

598
00:29:08,038 --> 00:29:10,659
we're going to have nobody said
we're going to end this war

599
00:29:10,660 --> 00:29:13,737
you know it was only when
people got collectively

600
00:29:13,737 --> 00:29:16,740
together and took the power
and that to me is what

601
00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:19,221
those ideals inspire yeah
I guess I think about

602
00:29:19,221 --> 00:29:21,636
it from the perspective
of this is all built on

603
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,769
capitalism you know like
they didn't want to be

604
00:29:23,769 --> 00:29:25,960
taxed they got out of
britain they came here they

605
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,200
They didn't want to be taxed.

606
00:29:28,660 --> 00:29:31,597
I mean, that's kind of the
way it started, right?

607
00:29:31,597 --> 00:29:36,413
And then you have coming to
a land that is inhabited

608
00:29:36,413 --> 00:29:38,479
and taking that land.

609
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,865
The Revolutionary War
was not fought by white

610
00:29:42,865 --> 00:29:44,357
people alone, right?

611
00:29:44,357 --> 00:29:47,586
And so it's all of those things
that I feel are kind of baked

612
00:29:47,586 --> 00:29:50,931
into the founding documents
documents that are so

613
00:29:50,931 --> 00:29:54,778
inauthentic to the world
we say we want to aspire

614
00:29:54,778 --> 00:29:58,403
to which brings me back to
why is this even important

615
00:29:58,403 --> 00:30:01,179
you know and that's just
my own personal thing

616
00:30:01,179 --> 00:30:04,208
but let's talk about
seattle democracy okay

617
00:30:04,208 --> 00:30:07,423
as we know it uh seattle
is what 159 years old

618
00:30:07,423 --> 00:30:10,646
something like that
probably probably right.

619
00:30:10,646 --> 00:30:11,846
I told you I was here.

620
00:30:11,846 --> 00:30:13,403
Here's one thing, though.

621
00:30:13,403 --> 00:30:16,980
We should say the incorporated
city of Seattle from the

622
00:30:16,980 --> 00:30:20,028
late 1860s, so we can
do our math from that.

623
00:30:20,028 --> 00:30:23,048
And I think, you know,
back in the day when we

624
00:30:23,048 --> 00:30:26,430
were, we would say, well,
Seattle was created when

625
00:30:26,430 --> 00:30:30,592
the first white settlers
settlers came, but of course,

626
00:30:30,592 --> 00:30:35,239
as we know, humans and the
indigenous world has been here

627
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,376
for time immemorial.

628
00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:37,817
That's a great point, thank you.

629
00:30:37,817 --> 00:30:40,640
Incorporated Seattle
is about 159 years.

630
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,519
The late 1860s, so yeah,
you're right on the money.

631
00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:47,884
So just thinking about
how democracy shows up in

632
00:30:47,884 --> 00:30:53,121
our government, our local
government, with a city that's

633
00:30:53,121 --> 00:30:57,701
so young compared to the
parts of the nation that's

634
00:30:57,701 --> 00:31:00,538
200, 250 years old, even older.

635
00:31:00,538 --> 00:31:07,430
Um where do we see pieces
of our founding ideals

636
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:14,317
in our own charter in our
own democratic system

637
00:31:14,317 --> 00:31:17,410
and where are the places
that there are gaps and

638
00:31:17,410 --> 00:31:20,577
that we need to be focused
on trying to fill those

639
00:31:20,577 --> 00:31:25,472
gaps so that they're more
related to the high ideals

640
00:31:25,472 --> 00:31:29,096
that is a good question
you are going to pose that

641
00:31:29,096 --> 00:31:31,699
question of the mayor I
believe when I when I look at

642
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:35,266
the script yeah so I didn't
have a chance to think

643
00:31:35,266 --> 00:31:38,125
about that but you know
it's interesting I just

644
00:31:38,125 --> 00:31:40,519
feel like a little fraction
of an answer and then I

645
00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:42,929
want to hear what Megan has
to say but it's interesting

646
00:31:42,929 --> 00:31:45,403
that the Washington Washington
state constitution,

647
00:31:45,403 --> 00:31:48,192
which obviously reflected a lot
of the same values, did have

648
00:31:48,192 --> 00:31:51,096
some features that were sort of
enhancement or improvements.

649
00:31:51,097 --> 00:31:54,351
And I was talking with
Lieutenant Governor Denny Heck

650
00:31:54,351 --> 00:31:57,458
the other day, and he said
he was elected to the state

651
00:31:57,458 --> 00:31:59,117
legislature when he was 24.

652
00:31:59,117 --> 00:32:01,721
And I said, well, that's
interesting because the

653
00:32:01,721 --> 00:32:04,644
constitution, to be a
congressional representative,

654
00:32:04,644 --> 00:32:05,980
you have to be at least 25.

655
00:32:05,980 --> 00:32:08,747
And he said, well, the
Washington state constitution

656
00:32:08,747 --> 00:32:10,097
says you only need to be 18.

657
00:32:10,097 --> 00:32:12,423
So did you know you can
be 18 and be elected to

658
00:32:12,423 --> 00:32:14,940
the state legislature so
I I hear your question

659
00:32:14,940 --> 00:32:18,547
and I'm not answAarong it okay
I just I just I found that one

660
00:32:18,547 --> 00:32:21,970
little okay thanks but megan
has an answer for your question

661
00:32:21,970 --> 00:32:24,259
I don't have an answer I
think it's an important

662
00:32:24,259 --> 00:32:26,112
question yeah yeah
I I mean, the way

663
00:32:26,112 --> 00:32:28,960
that I'm hearing it,
and I don't have the

664
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,688
specifics on this,
the way that I'm

665
00:32:31,688 --> 00:32:35,259
hearing this is, and push
back in or add to this,

666
00:32:35,259 --> 00:32:42,337
which is how is democracy
realized in Seattle

667
00:32:42,337 --> 00:32:46,038
and how is that impacted
by, at the federal level,

668
00:32:46,038 --> 00:32:47,817
our understanding
of these ideals

669
00:32:47,817 --> 00:32:48,739
in terms of these
founding fathers?

670
00:32:48,739 --> 00:32:50,140
Very much so.

671
00:32:50,140 --> 00:32:53,179
In so many ways, this is
the part of the importance

672
00:32:53,179 --> 00:32:55,140
of cities and towns
across this country,

673
00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:58,420
they are not separated from what
goes on at the federal level.

674
00:32:58,420 --> 00:32:59,836
- Yeah, absolutely.

675
00:32:59,836 --> 00:33:00,420
- Right?

676
00:33:00,420 --> 00:33:04,019
And so in terms of
what are the gaps--

677
00:33:04,019 --> 00:33:06,336
I mean, you know, one
of the things that...

678
00:33:08,439 --> 00:33:11,680
Was a popular phrase
for a very long time,

679
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,616
it felt like in the academy
around American politics

680
00:33:14,616 --> 00:33:17,199
as well as in local
government was that, like,

681
00:33:17,199 --> 00:33:20,419
cities and states were like
laboratories for democracy.

682
00:33:20,419 --> 00:33:23,518
Right. That like you couldn't
like experiments, whether

683
00:33:23,518 --> 00:33:26,097
it was, let's say, school
lunch or vouchers, you

684
00:33:26,097 --> 00:33:29,199
couldn't like immediately do
that at the national level.

685
00:33:29,199 --> 00:33:34,057
But you could pilot that in
a state or in a city, right?

686
00:33:35,636 --> 00:33:39,876
And more recently, there has
been a bit of conversation

687
00:33:40,999 --> 00:33:47,219
about states, cities, and towns
being places against democracy,

688
00:33:47,219 --> 00:33:49,939
laboratories actually
against democracy as a way,

689
00:33:49,939 --> 00:33:53,019
this is going to tie into
some of my research here.

690
00:33:53,019 --> 00:33:54,959
it will make sense, I
promise, in a moment here.

691
00:33:54,959 --> 00:34:01,817
As a way, 20 years ago, many
in the conservative right,

692
00:34:01,817 --> 00:34:04,515
especially billionaires,
were trying to impact

693
00:34:04,515 --> 00:34:07,471
at the federal level,
and they weren't having

694
00:34:07,471 --> 00:34:08,797
much of an impact.

695
00:34:08,797 --> 00:34:11,409
And so what they did is
then they moved it to

696
00:34:11,409 --> 00:34:14,699
focus on state legislatures
and state campaigns.

697
00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:18,114
And they're like, if we can
win on abortion, if we can

698
00:34:18,114 --> 00:34:21,690
win on climate, if we can win
on guns at the state level,

699
00:34:21,690 --> 00:34:25,025
at different states, we can
build a movement to get

700
00:34:25,025 --> 00:34:28,679
what we want that then will
feed up to the federal level.

701
00:34:30,498 --> 00:34:32,503
And I'm saying that to
say that that has not

702
00:34:32,503 --> 00:34:33,818
fully happened in Seattle.

703
00:34:35,378 --> 00:34:40,195
That has not fully happened
in washington state um

704
00:34:40,195 --> 00:34:44,438
that uh in many ways it
has gone in the reverse

705
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,219
direction actually right
um in terms of uh seattle

706
00:34:48,219 --> 00:34:51,639
I mean washington state
as well as california

707
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,277
after the abortion decision
were like, oh, hey, hey.

708
00:34:54,277 --> 00:35:00,358
So there's ways in which
the Constitution was set up

709
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,958
that gave states at that time
a lot of autonomy, right?

710
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,800
That an understanding at
that time, of course,

711
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,898
that Alabama was not going to
be the same as New Jersey.

712
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:14,460
Right, right, right.

713
00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:18,599
And so what is clear is that
Seattle and Washington State

714
00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:21,518
has developed a different
type of identity

715
00:35:21,518 --> 00:35:23,438
than many other states have.

716
00:35:24,498 --> 00:35:27,860
It has been clear that
certain special interests

717
00:35:27,860 --> 00:35:29,159
have not bought Seattle.

718
00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:31,420
It is very clear as
we sit where we sit

719
00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:33,619
that certain special
interests have bought

720
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,898
different parts of Seattle,
different parts of

721
00:35:37,898 --> 00:35:40,208
Seattle politics,
and that we should

722
00:35:40,208 --> 00:35:41,539
be cognizant of that.

723
00:35:41,539 --> 00:35:43,918
A call out to the
capitalism frame

724
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,239
like frame that you
gave us earlier, right?

725
00:35:47,518 --> 00:35:49,760
And there are always, I think,
in terms of the way that

726
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:50,858
we can see influences

727
00:35:51,978 --> 00:35:54,215
from the founding
documents, there's certain

728
00:35:54,215 --> 00:35:57,014
ways that like money
continues to influence

729
00:35:57,014 --> 00:35:58,679
and frame up our politics.

730
00:35:58,679 --> 00:36:01,659
But there's a lot of power
that the people actually have,

731
00:36:01,659 --> 00:36:04,719
like in Seattle and
in Washington State,

732
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,599
much more so than other
places that I visited

733
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:09,059
and that I've done
research about.

734
00:36:09,059 --> 00:36:10,438
Wow, that's good to know.

735
00:36:10,438 --> 00:36:11,840
And I mean, I think
one of the things

736
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,150
about the federal system is it
does give local communities

737
00:36:15,150 --> 00:36:18,036
some power to really set their
own rules and regulations.

738
00:36:18,036 --> 00:36:19,494
I mean, it's heavily influenced,

739
00:36:19,494 --> 00:36:22,106
especially in the 20th century,
by the federal government,

740
00:36:22,106 --> 00:36:24,259
which is a complete reversal
of what it used to be.

741
00:36:24,259 --> 00:36:25,686
I mean, it used to
be, which is why we

742
00:36:25,686 --> 00:36:28,039
do end up with an electoral
college where little states get

743
00:36:28,039 --> 00:36:30,800
almost as much power as big
states, and it's completely

744
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,239
undemocratic in that sense.

745
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:33,364
But But it does allow

746
00:36:33,364 --> 00:36:36,902
cities and states to
exercise some autonomy,

747
00:36:36,902 --> 00:36:40,253
which is why you see
states that are liberal,

748
00:36:40,253 --> 00:36:43,150
like Washington state,
creating climate

749
00:36:43,150 --> 00:36:46,777
legislation that's really
in contradiction to some

750
00:36:46,777 --> 00:36:49,568
of the federal EPA policies,
or actually suing the

751
00:36:49,568 --> 00:36:52,329
federal government,
because they feel that

752
00:36:52,329 --> 00:36:55,150
the execution of laws that
the federal government is

753
00:36:55,150 --> 00:36:56,679
pursuing are not constitutional.

754
00:36:56,679 --> 00:36:59,105
So that kind of dynamism
between local and state

755
00:36:59,105 --> 00:37:02,197
government and the federal
government is somewhat unusual,

756
00:37:02,197 --> 00:37:05,228
actually, globally speaking,
because most countries have

757
00:37:05,228 --> 00:37:08,259
a central federal government
that sort of runs everything.

758
00:37:08,259 --> 00:37:11,112
I mean, when you go to England,
for example, the prime minister

759
00:37:11,112 --> 00:37:12,539
decides on what the bus fare is.

760
00:37:12,539 --> 00:37:15,710
And so there is the opportunity
for local communities to

761
00:37:15,710 --> 00:37:19,286
exercise power, recognizing that
the federal government, you

762
00:37:19,286 --> 00:37:22,659
know, obviously plays a very
large role in everything we do.

763
00:37:22,659 --> 00:37:26,085
Can we point to some of the
movements that have pushed

764
00:37:26,085 --> 00:37:27,800
some of this legislation?

765
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,989
Because from my memory,
for the most part, the

766
00:37:31,989 --> 00:37:36,952
legislation that pushes us
forward is not normally an

767
00:37:36,952 --> 00:37:39,599
idea of an elected official.

768
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:46,384
It is normally a result of
some pressure from community

769
00:37:46,384 --> 00:37:49,039
or organized groups.

770
00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:54,052
So given that we're all kind of
from Seattle, what have you all

771
00:37:54,052 --> 00:37:59,262
noted as some of those movements
that have really pushed change

772
00:37:59,262 --> 00:38:04,079
that have taken hold nationally,
locally and nationally?

773
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:07,065
And the only one that I
can immediately point to,

774
00:38:07,065 --> 00:38:09,900
there are others, but I
think about Earth Day.

775
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:14,724
And I think about Dennis Hayes,
young 20-some-year-old Dennis

776
00:38:14,724 --> 00:38:18,911
Hayes, who had this idea about
what we could do to better

777
00:38:18,911 --> 00:38:23,277
the environment that led to
the establishment of the EPA.

778
00:38:23,277 --> 00:38:24,099
Yeah, absolutely.

779
00:38:24,099 --> 00:38:27,289
But even before that,
really the cleanup of Lake

780
00:38:27,289 --> 00:38:30,719
Washington and Metro was
not a legislative action.

781
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,588
It was really local
communities coming together,

782
00:38:33,588 --> 00:38:36,731
Republican, Democratic,
East Side, Seattle, saying,

783
00:38:36,731 --> 00:38:38,438
hey, we've polluted the lake.

784
00:38:38,438 --> 00:38:41,039
This isn't good for us
and certainly not for

785
00:38:41,039 --> 00:38:42,338
future generations.

786
00:38:42,338 --> 00:38:43,297
Let's clean it up.

787
00:38:43,297 --> 00:38:46,164
It was the largest environmental
remediation that wasn't

788
00:38:46,164 --> 00:38:48,619
federally dictated or the
result of a court order.

789
00:38:48,619 --> 00:38:51,619
But even I think of
the Four Amigos.

790
00:38:51,619 --> 00:38:54,677
I think of our civil rights
leaders who voluntarily came

791
00:38:54,677 --> 00:38:57,931
together across ethnic lines,
across different political

792
00:38:57,931 --> 00:39:00,860
positions and said, we need
to fight for fair housing.

793
00:39:00,860 --> 00:39:03,179
We need to fight for
equal opportunity.

794
00:39:03,179 --> 00:39:04,840
City Hall did not want to do it.

795
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,012
You know, those young high
school kids from Garfield

796
00:39:07,012 --> 00:39:09,036
High School went into City
Hall and they laid down

797
00:39:09,036 --> 00:39:11,257
outside the mayor's office
until the mayor said, I'll

798
00:39:11,257 --> 00:39:13,480
sign that fair housing
legislation back in the 1960s.

799
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,998
And that was Mayor
George Clinton?

800
00:39:15,998 --> 00:39:17,119
I think it was George Clinton.

801
00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:17,599
Not George.

802
00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:18,599
Was his first name George?

803
00:39:18,599 --> 00:39:19,338
Yeah, Gordon.

804
00:39:19,338 --> 00:39:20,079
Gordon Clinton.

805
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:22,579
I'm thinking about, you
know, Parliament Funkadelic.

806
00:39:22,579 --> 00:39:23,559
I'm sorry.

807
00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:25,356
I think there was a
George Clinton somewhere

808
00:39:25,356 --> 00:39:26,280
in our lives, but yeah.

809
00:39:27,539 --> 00:39:28,699
But I think that's a good one.

810
00:39:28,699 --> 00:39:32,027
And then the whole movement
towards the reparations

811
00:39:32,027 --> 00:39:34,980
for Japanese Americans
who were incarcerated

812
00:39:34,980 --> 00:39:35,858
started in Seattle.

813
00:39:35,858 --> 00:39:38,139
In fact, MOHAI played a little
role in that because we had

814
00:39:38,139 --> 00:39:41,585
an exhibit developed by the the
Japanese American community

815
00:39:41,585 --> 00:39:44,880
back in the 1980s called
The Pride and the Shame.

816
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,210
The seniors who had actually
experienced as adults the

817
00:39:47,210 --> 00:39:49,630
incarceration really didn't
want to talk so much about

818
00:39:49,630 --> 00:39:50,579
it, but the kids did.

819
00:39:50,579 --> 00:39:53,795
And they created an exhibit, and
that exhibit really, I think,

820
00:39:53,795 --> 00:39:55,277
elevated the conversation.

821
00:39:55,277 --> 00:39:58,101
And our friend from King County,
who I'm going to blank on his

822
00:39:58,101 --> 00:40:01,065
name, who's led that, Frank
Frank Abe, who's done so

823
00:40:01,065 --> 00:40:04,398
much of the history of
that and tells that story.

824
00:40:04,398 --> 00:40:07,902
So I think there are some really
powerful instances of local

825
00:40:07,902 --> 00:40:11,338
community activists taking the
power into their own hands

826
00:40:11,338 --> 00:40:13,800
and making that legislation
happen or make that

827
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,259
change happen, because
otherwise it wouldn't,

828
00:40:16,259 --> 00:40:17,909
because it wasn't in
the interest of the

829
00:40:17,909 --> 00:40:18,958
people who had the power.

830
00:40:18,958 --> 00:40:20,139
That's right.

831
00:40:20,139 --> 00:40:21,239
No, this was great.

832
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,297
I feel like I just
learned a lot.

833
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:27,277
I'm just going to do a short,
like, two-finger add-on

834
00:40:27,277 --> 00:40:29,780
and also a plug to two
books in the bookstore

835
00:40:29,780 --> 00:40:31,239
as I was walking through.

836
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,318
I think just to add on to what
you mentioned here, for me,

837
00:40:35,318 --> 00:40:37,648
and in part because
it's also my research,

838
00:40:37,648 --> 00:40:38,978
is civil rights, right?

839
00:40:38,978 --> 00:40:43,121
That, like, what happened
in terms of civil rights

840
00:40:43,121 --> 00:40:46,119
leaders in Seattle,
coming from University

841
00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:46,978
of Washington.

842
00:40:46,978 --> 00:40:49,219
And Quintard Taylor.

843
00:40:49,219 --> 00:40:51,797
There is a book that they
are selling in the bookstore

844
00:40:51,797 --> 00:40:55,360
that's really important about
Seattle civil rights history.

845
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,159
And that also, I know most
people in this room may know,

846
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:01,199
but if you don't, that's
perfectly fine as well.

847
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:03,318
But Seattle was a red line city.

848
00:41:03,318 --> 00:41:05,898
And there is a
reason, not anymore,

849
00:41:05,898 --> 00:41:08,563
but there is a reason
why black people lived

850
00:41:08,563 --> 00:41:10,119
in the Central District.

851
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:11,938
Vivian's still holding
out apparently.

852
00:41:11,938 --> 00:41:17,239
in the central district, right,
and in the Rainier Beach in

853
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,121
the South End area, right,
in part because of redlining

854
00:41:21,121 --> 00:41:22,500
that happened in Seattle.

855
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:24,380
And a lot of the
organizing was about

856
00:41:24,380 --> 00:41:26,777
housing segregation in the city.

857
00:41:26,777 --> 00:41:30,719
What I will also say, the other
thing that I am just very,

858
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,882
very aware of, because it
was my own experience,

859
00:41:32,882 --> 00:41:35,099
there's another book by
Haymarket Press by Aaron

860
00:41:35,099 --> 00:41:38,460
Aaron Dixon back there who was
part of the Black Panther

861
00:41:38,460 --> 00:41:39,880
Party here in Seattle.

862
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,503
And the reason why I said
I was familiar with this

863
00:41:42,503 --> 00:41:45,190
is Aaron Dixon was the
community safety officer at

864
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:46,699
Garfield when I went there.

865
00:41:46,699 --> 00:41:48,338
Oh, I didn't know that.

866
00:41:48,338 --> 00:41:52,335
Because he basically, and I
didn't know, and again, a young

867
00:41:52,335 --> 00:41:56,659
14, 15-year-old Megan Francis
who thought she knew everything

868
00:41:56,659 --> 00:42:00,559
thing, was like,
who's this older

869
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:02,818
black guy with some gray hair
and some dreads out here?

870
00:42:02,818 --> 00:42:05,039
You had no idea he
was the co-founder

871
00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:06,978
of the Seattle chapter
of the Black Panther

872
00:42:06,978 --> 00:42:08,539
Party. Checking on us.

873
00:42:08,539 --> 00:42:10,918
People was getting fights all
the time back in the 90s.

874
00:42:10,918 --> 00:42:12,838
All the time, fights, acting up.

875
00:42:12,838 --> 00:42:14,539
And he was like, what
you're not going to do is

876
00:42:14,539 --> 00:42:15,722
go to prison.

877
00:42:15,722 --> 00:42:19,159
I'm going to hem you up.

878
00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:20,659
I'm going to holler at
you, and I'm going to

879
00:42:20,659 --> 00:42:22,259
talk to you about this history.

880
00:42:22,259 --> 00:42:24,119
And that is actually
how I found out about

881
00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:25,898
about the Black Panthers.

882
00:42:25,898 --> 00:42:28,460
And in Seattle, I
had one of the most

883
00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:30,498
vibrant chapters
on the West Coast.

884
00:42:30,498 --> 00:42:32,259
The second chapter.

885
00:42:32,259 --> 00:42:33,659
Right after Oakland.

886
00:42:33,659 --> 00:42:34,498
And you know what?

887
00:42:34,498 --> 00:42:36,719
The Dixon's home
is being proposed

888
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,739
as a city of Seattle landmark.

889
00:42:38,739 --> 00:42:39,338
Oh, I didn't know this.

890
00:42:39,338 --> 00:42:40,518
So everybody get together.

891
00:42:40,518 --> 00:42:42,358
The Black Heritage
Society of Washington,

892
00:42:42,358 --> 00:42:44,418
in partnership with MOHAI,
is pushing for this.

893
00:42:44,418 --> 00:42:46,579
And our friend Stephanie
Johnson-Toliver

894
00:42:46,579 --> 00:42:47,838
is leading that cause.

895
00:42:47,838 --> 00:42:51,579
As is the Black Panther
wall on 20th and Spruce.

896
00:42:51,579 --> 00:42:52,719
Which is in your...

897
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:53,297
It's my neighborhood.

898
00:42:53,297 --> 00:42:54,978
In the back of the woods, yeah.

899
00:42:54,978 --> 00:42:57,539
Okay, now we're
getting real cozy.

900
00:42:57,539 --> 00:42:58,699
So I'm not going to go there.

901
00:43:00,059 --> 00:43:00,559
No, go there.

902
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:04,239
But I think this history of
redlining, and if anybody is

903
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,699
interested in this history,
one of the things that I think

904
00:43:07,699 --> 00:43:11,099
that's really fascinating about
it is you can see how democracy

905
00:43:11,099 --> 00:43:12,318
does and does not work.

906
00:43:12,318 --> 00:43:16,688
Mm-hmm. Because I
think it was outlawed

907
00:43:16,688 --> 00:43:23,025
by, I think Dixie Lee Ray signed
it, signed the resolution that

908
00:43:23,025 --> 00:43:26,438
outlawed redlining in like 1977.

909
00:43:27,838 --> 00:43:33,880
1968 is when all of the efforts
really started in earnest.

910
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:34,898
Am I right, Sharon?

911
00:43:38,059 --> 00:43:40,748
Because when was the
open housing legislation

912
00:43:40,748 --> 00:43:42,056
in 65, the city passed?

913
00:43:42,059 --> 00:43:43,719
When was that, Sharon?

914
00:43:45,358 --> 00:43:46,318
Yeah, 65.

915
00:43:49,818 --> 00:43:53,599
And they finally passed the
legislation citywide in 65.

916
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:56,969
And then the Federal Fair
Housing Act outlawed redlining,

917
00:43:56,969 --> 00:43:58,619
I think, across the country.

918
00:43:58,619 --> 00:43:59,880
You are probably
an expert on that.

919
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,920
I have to just say Sharon
Maeda is like the gang

920
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,358
of four, five, fifth.

921
00:44:04,358 --> 00:44:05,759
Yeah, the fifth of
the gang of four.

922
00:44:05,759 --> 00:44:06,719
She's like the fifth.

923
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,199
She's been around
for a long time.

924
00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:12,219
I can't believe we've talked as
long as we actually have, right?

925
00:44:13,318 --> 00:44:14,139
I know.

926
00:44:14,139 --> 00:44:18,443
But I have one final question,
and it's what are some

927
00:44:18,443 --> 00:44:23,338
of the things that you
think people can look for,

928
00:44:23,338 --> 00:44:28,639
take from the Freedom Papers,
the founding documents,

929
00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:34,880
that give them hope and push
people forward if they're stuck?

930
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,418
Is there anything that you
think might help do that?

931
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:43,318
Well, I see so much
wisdom in this audience.

932
00:44:43,318 --> 00:44:46,869
And Ana Maria Pinto de
Silva, who's an expert on

933
00:44:46,869 --> 00:44:49,699
democracy in the age of AI,
I think this is the thing

934
00:44:49,699 --> 00:44:50,900
we're facing right now.

935
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:52,777
And when I look at
those documents,

936
00:44:52,777 --> 00:44:54,478
they're written
documents by people,

937
00:44:54,478 --> 00:44:58,373
they're ideas they're ideas as
megan said those ideas that we

938
00:44:58,373 --> 00:45:01,755
all have that you all have
right now as you're thinking

939
00:45:01,755 --> 00:45:04,768
those are the things that
actually move the world

940
00:45:04,768 --> 00:45:08,487
and how we take our ideas
and manifest them in real

941
00:45:08,487 --> 00:45:12,344
time is up to us but 250
years ago some people

942
00:45:12,344 --> 00:45:15,619
who were very creative
and imaginative did it.

943
00:45:15,619 --> 00:45:17,777
It may not be the way
we would have done it.

944
00:45:17,777 --> 00:45:19,018
Time has changed.

945
00:45:19,018 --> 00:45:23,099
The situation that they created
is not where we want to end up.

946
00:45:23,099 --> 00:45:25,639
But it is an example
of taking ideas

947
00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:26,619
and realizing them.

948
00:45:26,619 --> 00:45:29,599
And as we enter the age of
AI, the real challenge is,

949
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:32,478
is how are we going
to stay empowered,

950
00:45:32,478 --> 00:45:34,764
feel the power in
ourselves, which is our

951
00:45:34,764 --> 00:45:36,902
inheritance as
Americans if we want to

952
00:45:36,902 --> 00:45:39,277
believe those ideals
and then actually

953
00:45:39,277 --> 00:45:40,277
make it a reality.

954
00:45:40,277 --> 00:45:41,478
So that's what I
hope you all take

955
00:45:41,478 --> 00:45:42,277
from those documents.

956
00:45:42,277 --> 00:45:42,878
That's great.

957
00:45:42,878 --> 00:45:43,418
Thank you.

958
00:45:43,418 --> 00:45:43,858
That's wonderful.

959
00:45:43,858 --> 00:45:45,079
What about you?

960
00:45:47,018 --> 00:45:49,438
So I just want to say just one
thing about the last exchange

961
00:45:50,639 --> 00:45:54,818
that I think then ties into this
last important question here,

962
00:45:54,818 --> 00:45:58,277
which is the thing that
kind of comes up for me

963
00:45:58,277 --> 00:45:59,958
and the importance of
this last exchange

964
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,858
was the importance of actually
people putting into practice

965
00:46:04,858 --> 00:46:07,777
and fighting for what
we, in some ways,

966
00:46:07,777 --> 00:46:09,858
at the federal level,
state level, local level,

967
00:46:09,858 --> 00:46:12,219
already in some ways
granted or given.

968
00:46:12,219 --> 00:46:14,978
It doesn't matter that we have
the Civil Rights Act of 64,

969
00:46:14,978 --> 00:46:16,099
the Voting Rights Act of 65.

970
00:46:16,099 --> 00:46:18,719
It doesn't matter
that we have housing.

971
00:46:20,639 --> 00:46:23,998
Unless and unless
people hold politicians

972
00:46:25,079 --> 00:46:28,599
and community
members to the fire.

973
00:46:28,599 --> 00:46:34,398
It's people who put into reality
what these things actually mean.

974
00:46:34,398 --> 00:46:37,159
And that's in terms of whether
it's talking about the Dixons,

975
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:40,487
whether it's talking about
different people around

976
00:46:40,487 --> 00:46:43,438
like earth justice that
is actually what makes

977
00:46:43,438 --> 00:46:47,083
the like things actually
democracy democracy work

978
00:46:47,083 --> 00:46:50,559
yeah right that's actually
what it is yeah that is

979
00:46:50,559 --> 00:46:53,521
what is so exciting um to
this question in terms of

980
00:46:53,521 --> 00:46:56,340
like where I see hope I
see hope in that actually

981
00:46:56,340 --> 00:46:57,719
It's the people.

982
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,556
At the end of the day, I
think we the people is one

983
00:47:00,556 --> 00:47:02,378
of the most powerful phrases.

984
00:47:02,378 --> 00:47:04,998
I genuinely believe that.

985
00:47:04,998 --> 00:47:06,159
Opening statement.

986
00:47:06,159 --> 00:47:06,858
It is.

987
00:47:06,858 --> 00:47:08,297
It comes from us.

988
00:47:08,297 --> 00:47:10,784
Right? And like the thing
that I always leave my

989
00:47:10,784 --> 00:47:13,460
students and I'll leave you
with this is that we are

990
00:47:13,460 --> 00:47:16,418
I think imagination is
one of the most powerful

991
00:47:17,918 --> 00:47:21,208
muscles and tools we have that
we don't spend enough time

992
00:47:21,208 --> 00:47:24,146
on. Today, justifiably so,
we are putting out fires

993
00:47:24,146 --> 00:47:27,003
in our families and our
communities in our politics

994
00:47:27,003 --> 00:47:29,858
right now because there are
so many fires to put out.

995
00:47:29,858 --> 00:47:32,456
But what that does is it
takes away time and energy

996
00:47:32,456 --> 00:47:35,244
from the dreaming and the
imagination that we need to

997
00:47:35,244 --> 00:47:36,639
do to build a better world.

998
00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:39,699
And we are always living
in somebody's imagination.

999
00:47:39,699 --> 00:47:41,884
So why not live in your
imagination of what a

1000
00:47:41,884 --> 00:47:43,219
better world actually is?

1001
00:47:48,518 --> 00:47:50,958
Thank you, Leonard,
Megan, Francis.

1002
00:47:50,958 --> 00:47:51,878
Thank you so much.

1003
00:47:51,878 --> 00:47:54,358
I think we have time for
a couple of questions.

1004
00:47:54,358 --> 00:47:55,797
If anybody don't look at me.

1005
00:47:55,797 --> 00:47:56,498
I'm not looking at you.

1006
00:47:56,498 --> 00:47:57,498
I'm just looking.

1007
00:47:57,498 --> 00:47:57,918
I'm looking.

1008
00:47:57,918 --> 00:47:59,159
I'm just looking.

1009
00:47:59,159 --> 00:48:01,398
If anybody has any questions.

1010
00:48:01,398 --> 00:48:02,797
I don't have a question.

1011
00:48:03,797 --> 00:48:06,958
I hate it when people make
comments instead of questions.

1012
00:48:06,958 --> 00:48:11,039
But I have to have a comment
about the exhibit upstairs.

1013
00:48:12,958 --> 00:48:19,702
After looking at those historic
documents going into that next

1014
00:48:19,702 --> 00:48:25,755
space and seeing the things that
people here have done over the

1015
00:48:25,755 --> 00:48:30,777
last several decades should
be an inspiration to exactly

1016
00:48:30,777 --> 00:48:32,679
what you're saying, Megan.

1017
00:48:32,679 --> 00:48:35,018
I mean, I found
that juxtaposition

1018
00:48:35,018 --> 00:48:36,639
just perfect.

1019
00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:39,398
Because we wanted to
tell that local story

1020
00:48:39,398 --> 00:48:41,219
because we knew we
had taken the power

1021
00:48:41,219 --> 00:48:43,858
and we were going to
balance the story out.

1022
00:48:43,858 --> 00:48:45,639
So Sharon's referring
to an exhibit

1023
00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:48,219
that we're calling
For Which It Stands.

1024
00:48:48,219 --> 00:48:50,318
We were just inspired by
our collection of flags.

1025
00:48:51,619 --> 00:48:53,297
You know, just a design idea.

1026
00:48:53,297 --> 00:48:55,277
But it opened up
all these stories

1027
00:48:55,277 --> 00:48:59,079
of really, wouldn't
you say, heroic action

1028
00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:03,480
on the part of all of us
to reflect, respond to,

1029
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,777
and lean into the ideals that
are on paper in the other room.

1030
00:49:07,777 --> 00:49:09,679
Right, but I have to
say one other thing.

1031
00:49:09,679 --> 00:49:13,820
I just learned today
that in 98118, where

1032
00:49:13,820 --> 00:49:16,378
Garfield High School is.

1033
00:49:16,378 --> 00:49:19,739
98144. Oh, 444 and 18.

1034
00:49:21,398 --> 00:49:23,219
We're all 98144.

1035
00:49:24,259 --> 00:49:31,938
The 37th district, only 11% of
the ballots have been returned.

1036
00:49:31,938 --> 00:49:34,998
And we only have five days.

1037
00:49:34,998 --> 00:49:36,259
Only 11%.

1038
00:49:37,297 --> 00:49:39,672
And so people say, why do
we have a president that

1039
00:49:39,672 --> 00:49:40,858
maybe we don't support?

1040
00:49:40,858 --> 00:49:42,219
Or why does this happen?

1041
00:49:42,219 --> 00:49:45,445
The power of the franchise,
which people have

1042
00:49:45,445 --> 00:49:48,759
fought so hard to expand
from the very first day

1043
00:49:48,759 --> 00:49:50,619
because it was so narrow.

1044
00:49:50,619 --> 00:49:53,275
If we don't encourage
young people,

1045
00:49:53,275 --> 00:49:57,043
our neighbors, our colleagues
to exercise that, there

1046
00:49:57,043 --> 00:50:00,047
really isn't any hope for
democracy because that

1047
00:50:00,047 --> 00:50:01,438
is the starting point.

1048
00:50:01,438 --> 00:50:04,018
Well, I think one of the other
ways that democracy shows up,

1049
00:50:04,018 --> 00:50:06,478
it just made me think about
when you brought up the vote,

1050
00:50:06,478 --> 00:50:09,498
is the city of Seattle
has democracy vouchers

1051
00:50:09,498 --> 00:50:14,614
that attempts to make
the financial plane

1052
00:50:14,614 --> 00:50:17,099
feel a lot more even.

1053
00:50:17,099 --> 00:50:20,400
So I think that's another
way that democracy

1054
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,556
does show up here, and
it's called that, which

1055
00:50:23,556 --> 00:50:25,059
I think is really bold.

1056
00:50:27,898 --> 00:50:31,230
Thank you for being here
really enjoyed it um I

1057
00:50:31,230 --> 00:50:34,998
have two things actually
one I'm currently reading

1058
00:50:34,998 --> 00:50:39,452
aaron dixon's die standing
it's fantastic I recommend

1059
00:50:39,452 --> 00:50:41,679
it um and the second thing is

1060
00:50:42,739 --> 00:50:45,360
I have voted and what
I did is it took a lot

1061
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,380
of research because there
were so many little

1062
00:50:49,418 --> 00:50:51,759
elections this time, right?

1063
00:50:51,759 --> 00:50:55,878
And I sent out a message on
Facebook and to my friends,

1064
00:50:55,878 --> 00:50:59,119
here's who I voted for and
here's the sources I used.

1065
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:02,679
The voters pamphlet, the papers,
League of Women Voters videos,

1066
00:51:03,679 --> 00:51:04,599
and what's the other one?

1067
00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:06,199
Seattle Channel videos.

1068
00:51:06,199 --> 00:51:09,358
So like kind of talking about
it with your friends might help

1069
00:51:09,358 --> 00:51:12,039
them understand a little
bit more what's out there.

1070
00:51:13,619 --> 00:51:14,679
Thank you for doing that.

1071
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:15,599
Thank you.

1072
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:17,699
I'm going to do a
shameless plug right here

1073
00:51:17,699 --> 00:51:19,599
since we've been talking
about Aaron and Elmer

1074
00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:22,612
Dixon. Aaron Dixon
and his brother Elmer

1075
00:51:22,612 --> 00:51:24,773
Dixon, the co-founders
of the Seattle chapter

1076
00:51:24,773 --> 00:51:27,858
of the Black Panther
Party, will be at Art Noir

1077
00:51:27,858 --> 00:51:32,159
tomorrow at 2 o'clock
in conversation

1078
00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:35,918
with Angela Rye as we
close the most recent

1079
00:51:35,918 --> 00:51:39,559
exhibit called Central District
Legacy Black Power Black

1080
00:51:39,559 --> 00:51:42,429
Panthers. Does everybody
know where Art Noir is?

1081
00:51:42,429 --> 00:51:43,128
23rd Union.

1082
00:51:43,128 --> 00:51:45,346
Can't miss it on
the corner we're

1083
00:51:45,346 --> 00:51:49,079
not uncle ike's so if you get
to uncle ike's look right

1084
00:51:54,478 --> 00:51:59,840
that sounds so cool yeah the the
exhibit is amazing and elmer

1085
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,541
and aaron we I think we
sold the last copy of Our

1086
00:52:03,541 --> 00:52:06,159
People Are Rising
yesterday, but we

1087
00:52:06,159 --> 00:52:09,918
do have Die Standing
by Elmer Dixon.

1088
00:52:09,918 --> 00:52:11,259
Such great people.

1089
00:52:12,398 --> 00:52:14,277
Ana has a question.

1090
00:52:14,277 --> 00:52:16,139
Well, okay then.

1091
00:52:16,139 --> 00:52:18,458
Thank you all so
very much for your

1092
00:52:18,458 --> 00:52:19,818
time. We have one more question.

1093
00:52:19,818 --> 00:52:20,896
Who has the mic?

1094
00:52:20,896 --> 00:52:22,056
I had a question.

1095
00:52:22,059 --> 00:52:22,773
Oh, I'm sorry.

1096
00:52:22,773 --> 00:52:24,318
Oh, no, that's quite all right.

1097
00:52:24,318 --> 00:52:26,777
Firstly, just a reflection back.

1098
00:52:26,777 --> 00:52:28,817
What an honor to be
be on the receiving

1099
00:52:28,817 --> 00:52:29,938
end of your brilliance.

1100
00:52:29,938 --> 00:52:33,159
And Leonard, thank you so much
for everything MOHAI has done

1101
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:35,838
to organize this
fantastic panel.

1102
00:52:35,838 --> 00:52:37,378
It's amazing.

1103
00:52:37,378 --> 00:52:40,739
My question to you both,
to all three of you,

1104
00:52:40,739 --> 00:52:44,858
is understanding that democracy
has always been a hot mess.

1105
00:52:44,858 --> 00:52:47,079
Can you put the mic up
just a little bit closer?

1106
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:50,739
Democracy has always
been a hot mess.

1107
00:52:50,739 --> 00:52:55,039
It's a messy, loud, family
having an argument out on

1108
00:52:55,039 --> 00:52:57,139
the street kind of thing.

1109
00:52:57,139 --> 00:52:59,188
And it's actually something
that makes me very

1110
00:52:59,188 --> 00:53:02,552
proud to be an American,
is how messy it is, how

1111
00:53:02,552 --> 00:53:04,739
unbuttoned up it is.

1112
00:53:04,739 --> 00:53:09,858
And as the mom of a junior,
a rising junior at Garfield,

1113
00:53:10,858 --> 00:53:13,146
and somebody who's
really committed to

1114
00:53:13,146 --> 00:53:17,099
intergenerational learning
and the power of our elders.

1115
00:53:17,099 --> 00:53:21,818
Can you reflect for us what
you feel in this next season,

1116
00:53:21,818 --> 00:53:25,378
in the fall, the single
most important things

1117
00:53:25,378 --> 00:53:30,097
that we can do to lean into
the fight that is democracy?

1118
00:53:30,099 --> 00:53:30,539
- Wow.

1119
00:53:33,159 --> 00:53:35,358
Is that for all of us?

1120
00:53:35,358 --> 00:53:35,777
- Yeah.

1121
00:53:39,579 --> 00:53:43,179
So one of the things that
I've just embraced recently,

1122
00:53:43,179 --> 00:53:46,266
and someone kind of shook
me, was like I was being

1123
00:53:46,266 --> 00:53:47,579
shaken out of a sleep.

1124
00:53:49,398 --> 00:53:52,510
Because we're all in this
place where we feel like

1125
00:53:52,510 --> 00:53:54,179
there's nothing we can do.

1126
00:53:54,179 --> 00:53:55,199
We feel helpless.

1127
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:58,677
We feel like everything is
happening to us, that we're

1128
00:53:58,677 --> 00:54:00,378
not making things happen.

1129
00:54:00,378 --> 00:54:03,204
And I think it's because
we're constantly

1130
00:54:03,204 --> 00:54:04,898
focused on the big issue.

1131
00:54:04,898 --> 00:54:07,898
We don't focus on the
little issues at home.

1132
00:54:07,898 --> 00:54:11,646
And so I think one of the
things that I believe we

1133
00:54:11,646 --> 00:54:15,777
can do is start really
leaning into local elections

1134
00:54:15,777 --> 00:54:21,099
and making sure that the right
people are elected locally,

1135
00:54:21,099 --> 00:54:27,619
and they can start to affect
change that moves up the ladder.

1136
00:54:27,619 --> 00:54:29,478
So I'm really into
that right now.

1137
00:54:29,478 --> 00:54:32,838
I'm really like paying
real close attention, more

1138
00:54:32,838 --> 00:54:36,518
attention, if that's possible,
than I have in the past.

1139
00:54:36,518 --> 00:54:41,282
But understanding that that
has an effect and that we can

1140
00:54:41,282 --> 00:54:43,918
cause effect at a higher level.

1141
00:54:47,059 --> 00:54:50,818
This is a great question.

1142
00:54:50,818 --> 00:54:52,418
Is the microphone on?

1143
00:54:52,418 --> 00:54:54,978
Is this better?

1144
00:54:54,978 --> 00:54:57,744
Perfect. This is
a great question.

1145
00:54:57,744 --> 00:55:00,130
I don't have a perfect answer.

1146
00:55:00,130 --> 00:55:03,373
My answer right now,
though, is actually

1147
00:55:03,373 --> 00:55:05,759
pulling on what was just said.

1148
00:55:05,759 --> 00:55:10,206
I think right now trying to - it
feels like so much of the news

1149
00:55:10,206 --> 00:55:15,018
stories are about what's going
on nationally, justifiably so.

1150
00:55:15,018 --> 00:55:19,347
That's just a hard area to
crack, but there's just so much

1151
00:55:19,347 --> 00:55:23,858
I think that is possible at the
state and at the local level.

1152
00:55:23,858 --> 00:55:28,175
And so for me, I'm going
to pretend your child is

1153
00:55:28,175 --> 00:55:30,498
a student of mine, right?

1154
00:55:30,498 --> 00:55:31,878
And then what would I say?

1155
00:55:32,878 --> 00:55:35,840
Because students come into my
office after and they're like,

1156
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,059
okay, well, what can I do?

1157
00:55:37,059 --> 00:55:40,639
Because this just feels
overwhelming, right?

1158
00:55:41,838 --> 00:55:45,858
And what I say is to find, I
think everybody has something

1159
00:55:45,858 --> 00:55:46,818
that they actually care about.

1160
00:55:48,159 --> 00:55:50,777
And to find what you
actually care about

1161
00:55:50,777 --> 00:55:56,059
and to find an
organization or two

1162
00:55:56,059 --> 00:55:58,018
that is connected
and to show up.

1163
00:55:58,018 --> 00:56:00,518
I think right now,
like one of the things

1164
00:56:00,518 --> 00:56:02,699
that I feel like got
lost still in COVID

1165
00:56:02,699 --> 00:56:04,018
that is still a
little bit lost today

1166
00:56:04,018 --> 00:56:07,130
is like showing up in
community and being in spaces

1167
00:56:07,130 --> 00:56:08,759
with people in community.

1168
00:56:08,759 --> 00:56:11,577
And that just is not
happening in ways that I

1169
00:56:11,577 --> 00:56:13,458
think it could and it should.

1170
00:56:13,458 --> 00:56:15,329
So for me, it's like, hey,
what I tell students, I'm

1171
00:56:15,329 --> 00:56:16,398
like, what do you care about?

1172
00:56:16,398 --> 00:56:17,838
You care about education?

1173
00:56:17,838 --> 00:56:18,619
Do you care about prisons?

1174
00:56:18,619 --> 00:56:19,818
Do you care about arts?

1175
00:56:19,818 --> 00:56:22,659
Do you like tell me what do
you actually care about?

1176
00:56:22,659 --> 00:56:26,431
What causes what issues
like make you upset, make

1177
00:56:26,431 --> 00:56:28,458
you happy, make you angry?

1178
00:56:28,458 --> 00:56:29,277
Find one or two.

1179
00:56:29,277 --> 00:56:31,338
Don't do don't try
to sign up for 10.

1180
00:56:31,338 --> 00:56:33,639
You're gonna exhaust
yourself, right?

1181
00:56:33,639 --> 00:56:35,556
Find one or two that
you actually care about

1182
00:56:35,559 --> 00:56:37,199
and figure out a way
to get involved.

1183
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:38,898
And when things get a
little bit uncomfortable

1184
00:56:38,898 --> 00:56:41,858
or sticky, don't give up.

1185
00:56:41,858 --> 00:56:43,818
The other thing that I
will also say is like,

1186
00:56:43,818 --> 00:56:47,637
I love this comment over
here about reading.

1187
00:56:47,639 --> 00:56:51,992
It's like to also increase
and work on your political

1188
00:56:51,992 --> 00:56:52,978
education, right?

1189
00:56:52,978 --> 00:56:55,079
About a host of
different issues.

1190
00:56:55,079 --> 00:56:58,039
There's so many resources
that are available to us.

1191
00:56:58,039 --> 00:57:00,552
The reason why I say don't
just do that is because

1192
00:57:00,552 --> 00:57:03,193
there's a way that we can
just become bookworms and

1193
00:57:03,193 --> 00:57:05,958
we're like, I read about
this, but I wasn't out there.

1194
00:57:05,958 --> 00:57:09,422
So I just think what we need
right now is, one, to increase

1195
00:57:09,422 --> 00:57:12,594
our political education to
help us deal with what is

1196
00:57:12,594 --> 00:57:16,206
uncomfortable, to help us build
up that muscle, and then to

1197
00:57:16,206 --> 00:57:18,197
actually practice that muscle.

1198
00:57:18,199 --> 00:57:22,485
And then I think, especially
for young people, to be able

1199
00:57:22,485 --> 00:57:26,771
to see whether it is maybe a
win in a local election, maybe

1200
00:57:26,771 --> 00:57:28,777
it's a win on local policy.

1201
00:57:28,777 --> 00:57:30,818
They're like, oh, shoot.

1202
00:57:30,818 --> 00:57:32,838
Like, that can happen, right?

1203
00:57:32,838 --> 00:57:37,737
I think is very empowAarong and
exciting to see on a micro level

1204
00:57:37,737 --> 00:57:41,233
because that can at some point
then like increase one's

1205
00:57:41,233 --> 00:57:43,317
imagination about what
is possible at the state

1206
00:57:43,317 --> 00:57:46,161
and also at the national
level yeah I I really don't

1207
00:57:46,161 --> 00:57:49,195
have too much to add to
that except that maybe

1208
00:57:49,195 --> 00:57:53,289
to think about democracy
democracy as community in

1209
00:57:53,289 --> 00:57:58,998
action, to Megan's point, that
whether it's not even electoral

1210
00:57:58,998 --> 00:58:02,518
politics, but your neighborhood
association, your block club,

1211
00:58:02,518 --> 00:58:05,746
your church, your corporation,
whatever space you find

1212
00:58:05,746 --> 00:58:08,097
yourself in, Ana, can
I tell about you?

1213
00:58:08,097 --> 00:58:10,079
Ana finds herself
in the AI space

1214
00:58:10,079 --> 00:58:13,875
and is an evangelist for
democracy and equity and

1215
00:58:13,875 --> 00:58:15,818
inclusion in that space.

1216
00:58:15,818 --> 00:58:17,878
So you're evangelizing
in your industry.

1217
00:58:17,878 --> 00:58:19,398
That's democracy.

1218
00:58:19,398 --> 00:58:22,179
That's really what democracy
makes us think about,

1219
00:58:22,179 --> 00:58:26,358
is how can we come together
collectively to affect change.

1220
00:58:26,358 --> 00:58:29,612
And so I would say for
young people, local

1221
00:58:29,612 --> 00:58:31,963
elections for sure,
finding the issues

1222
00:58:31,963 --> 00:58:34,295
you're passionate about,
and then finding the people

1223
00:58:34,295 --> 00:58:36,916
that are your community
and become an evangelist

1224
00:58:36,916 --> 00:58:37,818
for democracy.

1225
00:58:37,818 --> 00:58:42,458
And use MOHAI to learn about
the history of democracy

1226
00:58:42,458 --> 00:58:44,378
being pushed forward by people.

1227
00:58:44,378 --> 00:58:44,998
All right.

1228
00:58:44,998 --> 00:58:45,797
Yeah, yeah.

1229
00:58:45,797 --> 00:58:46,918
It's a lot of it right here.

1230
00:58:47,958 --> 00:58:48,898
So thank you all again.

1231
00:58:48,898 --> 00:58:50,159
I think that's the
last question.

1232
00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:52,679
Oh, my God, we have
another question.

1233
00:58:52,679 --> 00:58:54,759
Last one, last one.

1234
00:58:54,759 --> 00:58:55,619
Sorry for...

1235
00:58:55,619 --> 00:58:56,438
That's fine.

1236
00:58:57,759 --> 00:58:59,277
This is a bit of
a weird question

1237
00:58:59,277 --> 00:59:05,358
as it's following up on
the new constitution idea,

1238
00:59:05,358 --> 00:59:10,077
but with all the powerful
forces, shall we say,

1239
00:59:10,077 --> 00:59:11,978
in the country right now,

1240
00:59:13,378 --> 00:59:17,277
what would the country
need to look like really

1241
00:59:17,277 --> 00:59:19,818
in order to have a
constitutional convention

1242
00:59:19,818 --> 00:59:22,518
that isn't just similar
to the last one

1243
00:59:22,518 --> 00:59:24,338
where there was a bunch of
really, really rich people

1244
00:59:24,338 --> 00:59:26,458
and there was a lot of
people that were prevented

1245
00:59:26,458 --> 00:59:28,538
from showing up, shall we say.

1246
00:59:28,538 --> 00:59:31,719
I don't know if this is
necessarily something

1247
00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:33,378
that can be answered,

1248
00:59:34,518 --> 00:59:38,579
but I figured it's
worth a shot anyway.

1249
00:59:38,579 --> 00:59:39,978
That's a Megan question.

1250
00:59:39,978 --> 00:59:41,539
That's a really good question.

1251
00:59:41,539 --> 00:59:43,650
Megan, you take that
one, because Vivian and

1252
00:59:43,650 --> 00:59:44,358
I aren't smart.

1253
00:59:44,358 --> 00:59:46,157
We're not smart enough
to answer that.

1254
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:48,038
You have an answer to
answer it then, Vivian.

1255
00:59:48,038 --> 00:59:49,056
I have ideas.

1256
00:59:49,056 --> 00:59:52,277
Again, I think it's like, we
look at the big, big thing

1257
00:59:52,277 --> 00:59:54,059
and think we can't do that.

1258
00:59:54,059 --> 00:59:56,409
What would happen if we had
constitutional congresses

1259
00:59:56,409 --> 00:59:57,277
in our communities?

1260
00:59:58,599 --> 01:00:00,398
I mean, we can do that.

1261
01:00:00,398 --> 01:00:03,818
People used to organize
like that all the time.

1262
01:00:03,818 --> 01:00:06,681
I don't think young people
know that they can establish

1263
01:00:06,681 --> 01:00:08,297
a political action committee.

1264
01:00:08,297 --> 01:00:08,998
Do it.

1265
01:00:10,297 --> 01:00:12,498
Pull your neighbors together
and say, hey, you know what?

1266
01:00:12,498 --> 01:00:14,077
We don't like the
way this works.

1267
01:00:15,398 --> 01:00:16,338
And change it.

1268
01:00:16,338 --> 01:00:20,536
And again, you'll find a lot
of that history where people

1269
01:00:20,536 --> 01:00:22,679
did that right here at MOHAI.

1270
01:00:22,679 --> 01:00:25,418
So I just think it can happen.

1271
01:00:25,418 --> 01:00:29,119
Yeah, I mean, the boring
answer to this is right.

1272
01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:31,266
Your question here is about
how do we have a different,

1273
01:00:31,266 --> 01:00:33,318
I'm not going to assume
everybody's politics here,

1274
01:00:33,318 --> 01:00:36,338
a different RNC convention,
a different DNC convention.

1275
01:00:36,338 --> 01:00:38,597
Is that part of
the question here?

1276
01:00:38,599 --> 01:00:40,518
Or constitutional convention.

1277
01:00:40,518 --> 01:00:42,077
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1278
01:00:42,077 --> 01:00:44,797
I mean, that's what it's
become is the two conventions.

1279
01:00:46,038 --> 01:00:49,427
And that's going to be a part
about people, and this is the

1280
01:00:49,427 --> 01:00:52,735
part about people not buying
into a strict two-party

1281
01:00:52,735 --> 01:00:53,759
system, right?

1282
01:00:53,759 --> 01:00:56,295
And so there's a larger
conversation than this is about

1283
01:00:56,295 --> 01:00:59,474
the documents, and it's also
about the parties, which

1284
01:00:59,474 --> 01:01:02,918
is, do you work inside
of the Democratic Party?

1285
01:01:02,918 --> 01:01:04,766
You work inside of
the Republican Party

1286
01:01:04,766 --> 01:01:06,838
and try to become a
different Republican or a

1287
01:01:06,838 --> 01:01:07,918
different Democrat?

1288
01:01:07,918 --> 01:01:09,617
Or do you want to
do something else?

1289
01:01:10,878 --> 01:01:14,333
It is a two-party control, and
it comes with a tremendous

1290
01:01:14,333 --> 01:01:16,097
amount of resources, right?

1291
01:01:16,099 --> 01:01:18,032
This is the same, the reason
why I said it's the same

1292
01:01:18,032 --> 01:01:19,920
is, like, not same, but
similar to the documents,

1293
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,795
which is, like, do we want to
work to make these ideals,

1294
01:01:23,795 --> 01:01:26,958
like, work for us today, or
are we like, this doesn't

1295
01:01:26,958 --> 01:01:28,398
work for us anymore, right?

1296
01:01:28,398 --> 01:01:31,148
And that, I think, is
a larger, juicier,

1297
01:01:31,148 --> 01:01:34,898
complicated conversation
because it is really hard,

1298
01:01:34,898 --> 01:01:36,838
and this is why it
ties into imagination,

1299
01:01:36,838 --> 01:01:40,159
because it is really hard
for people, apologies,

1300
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:44,938
it is really hard for people
to imagine a type of politics,

1301
01:01:44,938 --> 01:01:50,382
a running for even local
office outside of the Democrat

1302
01:01:50,382 --> 01:01:52,018
and or Republican parties.

1303
01:01:52,018 --> 01:01:54,259
Because, and this is
the capitalism thing,

1304
01:01:54,259 --> 01:01:56,318
because of how much
money it is, right?

1305
01:01:56,318 --> 01:01:59,500
Today, what I tell my students,
you cannot run for the House

1306
01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:01,717
today outside of 1.5 million.

1307
01:02:01,717 --> 01:02:03,684
If you cannot raise
$1.5 million, do not

1308
01:02:03,684 --> 01:02:04,577
run for the House.

1309
01:02:04,577 --> 01:02:08,318
Do not run for the Senate if you
cannot raise $3 to $5 million.

1310
01:02:08,318 --> 01:02:11,157
It is impossible in
today's politics, right?

1311
01:02:11,159 --> 01:02:15,574
We are talking right now about
$1 billion elections, Biden

1312
01:02:15,574 --> 01:02:17,556
and Trump, this past year.

1313
01:02:17,556 --> 01:02:20,599
I mean, not this past year, but
this past election cycle, right?

1314
01:02:20,599 --> 01:02:24,206
And so, but part of that,
a significant part of that

1315
01:02:24,206 --> 01:02:26,438
comes from the parties, right?

1316
01:02:27,679 --> 01:02:30,880
And so what you need is
obviously, right, campaign

1317
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:34,998
finance reform, which actually
both parties are interested in.

1318
01:02:34,998 --> 01:02:37,217
Well, some members, right?

1319
01:02:37,217 --> 01:02:39,514
But you need a lot of
different types of things in

1320
01:02:39,514 --> 01:02:40,777
order to make that happen.

1321
01:02:40,777 --> 01:02:42,458
It is not impossible.

1322
01:02:42,458 --> 01:02:47,838
People on both sides are
fed up right with these

1323
01:02:47,838 --> 01:02:53,079
parties um so but it just
takes people right um

1324
01:02:53,079 --> 01:02:55,735
establishing the type of vision
the type of politics that

1325
01:02:55,735 --> 01:02:58,503
they actually want and saying
that right now what we

1326
01:02:58,503 --> 01:03:01,579
have is not good enough
and it does not serve them

1327
01:03:01,579 --> 01:03:04,041
anymore right hey megan
and we know about art

1328
01:03:04,041 --> 01:03:05,998
noir for the Dixons and
the Black Panthers.

1329
01:03:05,998 --> 01:03:08,139
Where do we find out
more about your ideas?

1330
01:03:08,139 --> 01:03:09,538
Where do we find you?

1331
01:03:09,538 --> 01:03:10,559
Where do we find you?

1332
01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:11,719
Where do we find you?

1333
01:03:11,719 --> 01:03:14,117
You find me at the
University of Washington.

1334
01:03:15,237 --> 01:03:19,958
I am doing, I rarely, I do
like once or twice a year,

1335
01:03:19,958 --> 01:03:24,139
once or every other year,
a big public lecture.

1336
01:03:24,139 --> 01:03:29,588
I am doing one, kind of
an autopsy of the midterm

1337
01:03:29,588 --> 01:03:34,619
elections in January
of 2027 at K-U-O-W.

1338
01:03:34,619 --> 01:03:37,717
K-U-O-W? So I'll do a, so if you

1339
01:03:37,717 --> 01:03:41,719
want to hear my take on
that, which you don't.

1340
01:03:41,719 --> 01:03:42,418
Oh, yes, we do.

1341
01:03:42,418 --> 01:03:43,579
Yes, we do.

1342
01:03:43,579 --> 01:03:45,358
That will be the
next time I do it.

1343
01:03:45,358 --> 01:03:47,918
But otherwise, UW website.

1344
01:03:47,918 --> 01:03:50,900
And share again the name of
your book and where it can be

1345
01:03:50,900 --> 01:03:54,277
found Civil Rights and the Making
of the Modern American State

1346
01:03:54,277 --> 01:03:55,476
That's an older book though.

1347
01:03:55,476 --> 01:03:57,920
I'm working on some more newer
stuff about the civil rights

1348
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,168
movement and big philanthropy
That's I think more

1349
01:04:00,168 --> 01:04:02,706
juicier and exciting But
anyways, it's been great to

1350
01:04:02,706 --> 01:04:04,119
spend this evening with y'all

1351
01:04:05,556 --> 01:04:07,155
Thank you so much.

1352
01:04:07,155 --> 01:04:09,922
Thank you all for being here and

1353
01:04:09,922 --> 01:04:13,358
for staying we appreciate
it Thank you all so much

1354
01:04:13,358 --> 01:04:15,478
and thank you so much to
our wonderful panelists.