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I am your moderator for
tonight, but that is official

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as of maybe two hours ago.

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So I'm going to do my
best with you all.

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Hi, everybody.

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I am not Naomi C.

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I wish she could
be here tonight.

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I know she wishes she could
be here tonight as well.

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So you're stuck with me.

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I am Alexis Mercedes Rinck, your
Seattle City Council member,

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but tonight your moderator for a
really exciting and interesting

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discussion that I know I'm
going to be really excited to

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dig into these questions with
our two panelists for tonight.

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So we're here tonight to
really examine a notable

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trend that's happening right
now in Washington politics.

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As Democrats are approaching a
near supermajority in Olympia,

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we're seeing an uptick in
Democrat on Democrat primaries.

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That reflects some deeper
debates about the party's

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direction, both nationally
and locally, and I know

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we're all feeling it.

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The group chats are on fire.

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So tonight we're going to
be exploring some of this

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intra-party challenges
surfacing right now,

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from local pressures like
housing affordability and

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zoning to public safety
to also some generational

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shifts that are happening,
demographic changes, all in the

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context of our broader national
polarization that's going on.

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So we're going to dig into the
mechanics behind them from

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fundraising and donor networks,
labor and business influence,

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endorsement dynamics, grassroots
organizing, primary rules,

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and how turnout will
be shaping outcomes.

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So looking at these real
policy differences at

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stake, we're going to talk
about branding, moderate

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versus progressive.

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We're going to consider
challengers as a part of a

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broader movement or a collection
of local insurgencies

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looking at risks and
benefits for a democratic

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governance and electoral
prospects and talk about how

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these fights might change
legislators behavior and

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party strategy in Olympia
moving forward and so we're

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gonna dig right in right
now into the race I know

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everybody's talking
about in Seattle's 43rd

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legislative district a Senate
Senate Majority Leader

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Jamie Pedersen, architect
of the Millionaire's

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Tax, faces a millennial
labor organizer challenger,

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Hannah Sabio-Howell.

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And similarly, right across
Lake Washington, we have Rep

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Amy Walen in Kirkland, who
drew a primary challenger

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after voting against
the Millionaire's Tax.

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And these contests show
different framings between

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performance and purity politics.

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So my question to our two folks
for tonight to kick us off,

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in one sentence each, what is
the core message incumbents

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are running on in this cycle?

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And what is the core message of
their intra-party challengers

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and they're running on?

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Should I go first?

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I mean, I'll answer the
question that incumbents

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should be running on.

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I wouldn't say that all of
them are, but the message that

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they should be running on
is that we're a fighter, we

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stood up to Trump, and that
we're Trump-proofing Washington.

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That's the message that
they should be on.

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Now, most of them are too
stupid to do that, and their

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consultants, if they didn't
hire me, are too dumb to do it.

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But yeah, that's what
they should be doing.

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Yeah, I think that's
actually about right.

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I would add I think the message
they are running on for the most

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part is mission accomplished.

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We promised progress
and we delivered it.

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I think there are some
challenges with that, but

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that in one sentence is
about the message I think

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most of them are running on.

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I'll dive into then the second
part of that question, which

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is the message that a lot
of challengers are sort of

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sharing, which is what progress?

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We look around at rents that
have doubled, at childcare

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that costs the equivalent of
a college tuition, and a lot

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of our friends choosing between
putting food on the table

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and paying for health insurance,
and we're rightly, I think,

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questioning what does that
progress look like and for

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whom and this is a really
hotly debated part but that

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I think is the core of the
of the message tied to

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as well if they had good
ideas for how to solve those

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problems they would have
done it already and that

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I think is sort of the
core message across the

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board for most of
the the challengers.

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And Dean, do you want
to touch on the second

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part? Yeah, and I honestly
think there's a generational

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divide in a lot of these
races, not all, but

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many. You know, there's
like this perception that

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the old establishment isn't
getting it done, but then I

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also think that there's this

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interesting parlay with national
politics, and that Democrats

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are incredibly frustrated with
with the Democratic Party.

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And I think this has to do
more with what's happening

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in Washington, D.C.

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than what's happening here.

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You had all of the nonsense
around the 2024 election,

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Biden's mental health, his
performance, him getting out,

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Harris running, Harris
losing, Trump coming back.

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But it goes even
deeper than that.

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It goes all the way back to
Democrats not standing up

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up on the Supreme Court
nomination or several of them.

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It goes to the Democratic
performance in Washington, DC,

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or lack thereof.

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I think we're all
frustrated with that.

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And that's playing out across
the board in all races,

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whether it be even here
in Washington state.

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And I think that Democrats
being frustrated

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with the Democratic
Party is fair,

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and it's a just criticism,
and people should

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be criticizing.

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If you think back to Trump
1, Nancy Pelosi was a hero.

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Chuck Schumer was a hero.

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Our leadership were heroes.

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And going to Trump
2, we're like,

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can anybody identify the sound
of Hakeem Jeffries' voice?

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I don't even know if the
guy knows how to speak.

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And they're not standing up
in the way we want them to.

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Yeah, I think I'll
just add real quick.

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I'll just add some thoughts
to that as well, because you

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touched on this point, which
is the Democratic Party today

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is the most unpopular it has
ever been in my lifetime and a

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lot of other people's lifetime.

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Right up there
with data centers.

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Legitimately. And
it's not just that

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Republicans pretty much
hate us maximally.

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That hasn't increased.

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Their hate is already
capped at the highest

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you can hate someone.

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And independents, you know,
like us about as little

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as they can throw us.

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But really the difference is
Democrats don't like ourselves.

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Like we are in the midst
of a real identity crisis

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about what it means to
be a part of this party.

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And I think what you're,
we'll get into this more

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tonight, but like there is a,
there's a social interpersonal

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fight happening here.

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And that is driving
a lot of this.

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Like, we don't like the
policy outcomes that are

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coming out of our party.

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There's a growing salience
that our party serves not a

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general interest, but the
interest of a handful of small,

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either wealthy individuals or
businesses or special interests,

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whether they're labor unions
or advocacy organizations.

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There's a sort of general
growing salience around the

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idea that does this party serve
us as a broad set of people,

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or does it serve an elite that
we are losing touch with?

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And the final piece I wanted to
add to that, because you talked

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about this generational element,
which is that my generation

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is the first to really be
substantially worse off

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economically than our parents.

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Like the idea of buying a
home in the city of Seattle,

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I'm going to, me and my
partner both make, you know,

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six figures, like it's
still off the table, right?

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And that's not just me.

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I'm not like, oh, my God, woe is
me, the consultant in Seattle.

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The point is that our generation
is feeling so disconnected from

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being able to find a future that
is financially stable, that

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we can build a good life in.

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And I think that's a real
fundamental problem that the

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party hasn't quite figured
out how to talk about yet.

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One pushback on that is
that 30 years ago when I

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was president of Young
Democrats of Washington, a

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couple blocks away, and had
a few less gray hairs, we

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were saying the same thing.

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So we figured it out.

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But that being said, I
understand the frustration.

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You know, you're not wrong.

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Well, you've both brought
up pieces just around

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the generational divide
that's happening within

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the Democratic Party.

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And I want to dive into that
a little bit more because

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you mentioned there was the
obvious component with the

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2024 presidential election.

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I'd be remiss if we didn't bring
up the Mitch McConnell of the

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matter that we're currently in.

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And so there are some
real questions, but I

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think we can all agree
that with age can come.

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Is there a Mitch here?

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With age can come expertise and
experience at face value I mean

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we don't want to be ageist in
this matter we we have a real

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respect for also what our elders
can bring into the situation so

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a question to you both like how
can we be able to talk about

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age as an asset in one matter
um And how can candidates that

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are more established be able
to really speak to that?

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I mean, you know, so I ran
the independent expenditures

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for the Seattle mayor's race.

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And, you know, that was the
overwhelming issue, right?

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And we put Katie Wilson's
resume on mail pieces.

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And, you know, we moved him
from 40 points in the primary

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to 49 points in the general.

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Just couldn't get
the last point.

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But, you know, I mean,
so, but the point is the

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message has salience.

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Is it enough?

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In that race, it
wasn't, you know,

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and, but in other
races, it may be.

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Yeah, I mean, I think that's
an interesting example.

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I also, I ran the
independent expenditure

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for Katie Wilson.

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We moved her from
winning to winning.

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Sorry. That's okay.

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I'm just asking.

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I'm sorry.

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That's okay.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And it's your life
better yet?

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I don't need to put the seal of
the mayor up in front of me.

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But no, but I think the
point is, no, it's actually

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a really good point.

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I'm not just trying to be
facetious about this, right?

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Like that was 100%
the issue, right?

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00:10:27,759 --> 00:10:30,759
Like putting up, is she
experienced enough to be mayor?

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Up against on our side, right,
the conversation of like this,

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what is the record that Bruce
Harrell thinks is so great?

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And our mailers talked
about, you know,

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rent doubling and childcare
getting more expensive

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00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:47,798
and homelessness exploding and
failed promises on shelter.

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And the reason I bring
that up is just to go back

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to what I said at the start,
which is the message of

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incumbents is actually,
I feel for it.

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And I should say,
because we didn't really

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introduce ourselves
at the front of this,

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like I'm not just a consultant
for a couple of challengers

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against Democrats.

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I also work for a ton of
incumbents as well that are

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00:11:04,739 --> 00:11:08,080
facing challenges from more
progressive candidates, too.

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And so it is a real challenge
to say, how do we talk about a

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record that I'm proud of that
was hard, particularly in the

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context of Olympia, which for
us normies that don't lobby in

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Olympia, the kind of stuff that
comes out of Olympia that people

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are so proud of, it feels so
big to the Olympia lobbyists.

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But to the rest of
us, we're like, that?

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That was the big deal.

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And two things can
be true, right?

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It was both hard to
accomplish in Olympia

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and also insufficient
to tackle the problem.

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00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:41,000
Rivian can now sell
cars directly.

241
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,000
Oh, my God.

242
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,360
Yeah, exactly.

243
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:48,960
And so in my past, I advocated
for policy change in Olympia.

244
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,677
It took me two years to get
a hotline for bias incidents

245
00:11:52,677 --> 00:11:54,820
and hate crimes
passed in Olympia.

246
00:11:54,820 --> 00:11:56,440
I was so proud of it, right?

247
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,490
But that's the kind of thing
that it's like historic change

248
00:11:59,490 --> 00:12:02,230
got done and then also was
largely meaningless to the

249
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:05,278
impact in people's lives and
something we're going to keep

250
00:12:05,278 --> 00:12:06,899
having to fight on and improve.

251
00:12:06,899 --> 00:12:09,740
And so the point I'm trying
to make is that there is a

252
00:12:09,740 --> 00:12:12,922
real challenge for incumbents
to figure out how do I take

253
00:12:12,922 --> 00:12:15,764
credit for my record, but
also not give off the idea

254
00:12:15,764 --> 00:12:17,320
that I'm satisfied with it.

255
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,572
Like I am just as passionate
about going to the mat to

256
00:12:20,572 --> 00:12:23,980
make your life better as I was
when I ran the first time.

257
00:12:23,980 --> 00:12:26,403
And the incumbents that
do that well will win and

258
00:12:26,403 --> 00:12:27,798
those that don't will lose.

259
00:12:27,798 --> 00:12:31,072
And challengers are necessarily
asking, is the progress

260
00:12:31,072 --> 00:12:33,798
you've gotten from these
folks good enough yet?

261
00:12:33,798 --> 00:12:34,730
Good enough for you?

262
00:12:34,730 --> 00:12:36,320
Do you feel the
impact in your life?

263
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,759
That is, I think, the central
question Katie asked.

264
00:12:38,759 --> 00:12:40,379
And it is part of
why I think she won.

265
00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:43,500
Is that an answer?

266
00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:44,442
Yeah, I believe so.

267
00:12:44,442 --> 00:12:46,272
And now is the part,
the one of I'm sure

268
00:12:46,272 --> 00:12:48,926
many times tonight where I
remind you all, I got pulled

269
00:12:48,926 --> 00:12:50,105
into this two hours ago.

270
00:12:50,105 --> 00:12:51,754
So I apologize for
not taking time

271
00:12:51,754 --> 00:12:53,937
to let our panelists
introduce themselves.

272
00:12:53,937 --> 00:12:55,118
It's my first time here.

273
00:12:55,118 --> 00:12:57,182
Okay, I'll try and
curtail those excuses.

274
00:12:57,182 --> 00:12:58,657
But I do want to
give each of our

275
00:12:58,657 --> 00:13:01,488
panelists just a moment to
introduce yourselves a little

276
00:13:01,488 --> 00:13:01,960
bit more.

277
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,201
You already got to know
a little bit about them

278
00:13:04,201 --> 00:13:06,913
and some of what at least what
they were up to last year in

279
00:13:06,913 --> 00:13:08,740
the independent
expenditure world.

280
00:13:08,740 --> 00:13:11,158
But maybe if you, Dean,
would you like to go first?

281
00:13:11,158 --> 00:13:12,649
Sure. Dean Nielsen.

282
00:13:12,649 --> 00:13:15,455
I've worked in
politics in Washington

283
00:13:15,455 --> 00:13:19,399
State and around the country
and the world since 1992.

284
00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:22,509
I started when I
was one and a half.

285
00:13:22,509 --> 00:13:23,259
Just kidding.

286
00:13:24,700 --> 00:13:28,682
So, no, I've seen a lot, been
on both sides of most of

287
00:13:28,682 --> 00:13:33,240
these fights, and, you know,
love doing this type of work.

288
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,336
So our company, CN4 Partners, we
are based here in Seattle, and

289
00:13:37,336 --> 00:13:41,200
we have offices in Cleveland,
New York, D.C., and Houston.

290
00:13:43,139 --> 00:13:44,820
My name is Steven Paolini.

291
00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:47,158
I'm a principal at Bottled
Lightning Collective.

292
00:13:47,158 --> 00:13:50,783
We're a small boutique
political consulting firm

293
00:13:50,783 --> 00:13:54,580
that is based here, actually
in Tacoma, Washington.

294
00:13:54,580 --> 00:13:56,783
But I live here in
Seattle, and we do work

295
00:13:56,783 --> 00:13:59,344
all around the country,
including for most of the

296
00:13:59,344 --> 00:14:02,259
Democratic congressional
delegation here in Washington,

297
00:14:02,259 --> 00:14:04,307
as well as several of
the challengers running

298
00:14:04,307 --> 00:14:05,440
against Democrats, too.

299
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,586
And as I kind of alluded to,
we did the PACs for Katie

300
00:14:09,586 --> 00:14:11,860
Wilson and Dionne and Alexis.

301
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,807
But I just bring that up
actually, I'll turn it into a

302
00:14:20,807 --> 00:14:24,692
minor soliloquy, which is to say
like I think I sort of have the

303
00:14:24,692 --> 00:14:28,278
impression of being primarily
working with progressive

304
00:14:28,278 --> 00:14:30,793
candidates, but there's
a broader piece to

305
00:14:30,793 --> 00:14:33,240
that too for me, and I
work for a lot of folks

306
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,600
who both benefit and are
challenged by this trend.

307
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,706
Yeah, I mean, you know, even
though I have the tie and cuff

308
00:14:39,706 --> 00:14:43,066
links in Rolex on tonight,
I, you know, our firm is

309
00:14:43,066 --> 00:14:47,778
working for Francesca Hong
and, you know, in Wisconsin,

310
00:14:47,778 --> 00:14:50,331
who may become the
first socialist nominee

311
00:14:50,331 --> 00:14:52,960
for a major party for
governor of that state.

312
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,692
So, you know, if you have
enough clients, you are on both

313
00:14:56,692 --> 00:14:58,720
sides of many of these issues.

314
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,960
And, you know, some of
this type of work is like

315
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,080
being a lawyer, right?

316
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,820
You know, and you go to
battle for your client.

317
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:08,840
Going where the money is.

318
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,440
Yeah, we're all just
blood-sucking vampires.

319
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:12,320
Yeah, totally.

320
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,019
It is a business.

321
00:15:14,019 --> 00:15:14,899
I do have a payroll.

322
00:15:14,899 --> 00:15:16,960
We all got to pay our bills.

323
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,024
I'm going to take us to our next
question for tonight, which is,

324
00:15:20,024 --> 00:15:23,206
how do these primary challenges
fit into the national narrative

325
00:15:23,206 --> 00:15:24,677
around the Democratic Party?

326
00:15:24,677 --> 00:15:27,200
Now, we started answering that
question, but I have more.

327
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,389
That narrative is that the
Democratic establishment

328
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:32,798
has lost credibility
with their voters,

329
00:15:32,798 --> 00:15:35,778
who blame them for losing to
Trump and who want them to be

330
00:15:35,778 --> 00:15:38,759
more aggressive in fighting
the Trump administration

331
00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:42,042
and see the establishment as
too beholden to big donors

332
00:15:42,042 --> 00:15:43,538
and powerful oligarchs.

333
00:15:43,538 --> 00:15:46,128
And there's certainly plenty
of evidence to support

334
00:15:46,128 --> 00:15:47,538
that narrative nationally.

335
00:15:47,538 --> 00:15:51,321
Now, are there clear signs here
locally that Democratic voters

336
00:15:51,321 --> 00:15:54,960
are dissatisfied with their
elected leaders in the same way?

337
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,600
I guess we'll find out
in a couple weeks.

338
00:15:58,820 --> 00:16:01,990
No, but New York Times did
an incredible deep dive

339
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:05,320
on this a couple weeks ago
in their polling segment.

340
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,070
And if you haven't had
a chance to read it, I

341
00:16:07,070 --> 00:16:08,220
encourage you to look it up.

342
00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:09,927
But it was fascinating.

343
00:16:09,927 --> 00:16:12,403
And they asked
Democrats that very

344
00:16:12,403 --> 00:16:13,513
same question.

345
00:16:13,513 --> 00:16:16,586
And it was very interesting
because a lot of

346
00:16:16,586 --> 00:16:21,196
this is framed around, you know,
progressives versus moderates

347
00:16:21,196 --> 00:16:23,158
or socialists or whatever.

348
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,394
And what they found in their
polling is that about half

349
00:16:27,394 --> 00:16:30,450
of Democrats wanted the
party to move to left, about

350
00:16:30,450 --> 00:16:33,504
half of them wanted to move
to the center to appeal to

351
00:16:33,504 --> 00:16:35,278
moderates, to win a majority.

352
00:16:35,278 --> 00:16:38,980
But, you know, all of them
wanted Democrats to be fighters,

353
00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:42,460
and they just thought that
the party was lame, you know.

354
00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:45,000
And they're not wrong, you know.

355
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,860
There is no leadership.

356
00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:54,206
And so I think a lot of, in my
mind, is around that context of

357
00:16:54,206 --> 00:16:57,879
finding a voice and using it.

358
00:16:57,879 --> 00:16:59,980
Yeah, I think that's real.

359
00:16:59,980 --> 00:17:03,336
And the piece I'd add to that
is I got a poll back for

360
00:17:03,336 --> 00:17:06,856
one of the candidates I'm
working for that actually

361
00:17:06,856 --> 00:17:10,891
we asked this question of, what
do you most blame for your

362
00:17:10,891 --> 00:17:13,298
worsening economic condition?

363
00:17:13,298 --> 00:17:15,596
I mean, it was phrased a little
bit more objective than that,

364
00:17:15,596 --> 00:17:17,817
but that was the essential
thrust of the question.

365
00:17:17,817 --> 00:17:22,278
And we asked about things like,
is it Donald Trump's tariffs?

366
00:17:22,278 --> 00:17:25,596
Is it mega corporations
price gouging?

367
00:17:25,596 --> 00:17:28,857
Is it policies coming
out of Olympia?

368
00:17:28,857 --> 00:17:32,700
And the majority of
people actually said,

369
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:35,337
and this was a little bit more
of a moderate district actually,

370
00:17:35,337 --> 00:17:38,480
but a majority of them said
policies coming out of Olympia.

371
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,480
And so I just bring that point
up to say, right or wrong,

372
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,249
like I'm a progressive,
I happen to agree with

373
00:17:43,249 --> 00:17:44,990
most of the policies
coming out of Olympia,

374
00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:47,097
but I do think there's
actually plenty of evidence

375
00:17:47,097 --> 00:17:50,220
to suggest that there's a
growing frustration with,

376
00:17:51,837 --> 00:17:54,038
when we talk, I kind of
touched on this earlier,

377
00:17:54,038 --> 00:17:56,140
when we talk about
something as being like

378
00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:58,480
a big historic victory,
you know, we delivered

379
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,817
historic investments
in affordable housing,

380
00:18:00,817 --> 00:18:04,048
I think there are a lot of
people like me that are like,

381
00:18:04,048 --> 00:18:04,854
okay, great.

382
00:18:04,854 --> 00:18:07,275
Where could I have
some of that, please?

383
00:18:07,275 --> 00:18:09,476
Like my rent,
literally my rent from

384
00:18:09,476 --> 00:18:10,796
2016 to 2026 doubled.

385
00:18:10,796 --> 00:18:12,997
And that is a lived
experience that I

386
00:18:12,997 --> 00:18:16,663
have. It's hard to argue with
if your message is simply like,

387
00:18:16,663 --> 00:18:18,568
oh, no, mission accomplished.

388
00:18:18,568 --> 00:18:19,817
Like I did the thing.

389
00:18:19,817 --> 00:18:20,625
Don't worry.

390
00:18:20,625 --> 00:18:23,336
Like, I don't know why
you're not feeling it.

391
00:18:23,336 --> 00:18:25,759
But like I did make
the investments that

392
00:18:25,759 --> 00:18:27,519
would make your life better.

393
00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:31,770
And so I think there is this
tension around acknowledging

394
00:18:31,770 --> 00:18:36,201
that hard things happened in
Olympia that were unthinkable

395
00:18:36,201 --> 00:18:40,009
even two or three or four
years ago, but they have yet

396
00:18:40,009 --> 00:18:44,086
to make the kind of impact in
people's lives that you'll

397
00:18:44,086 --> 00:18:46,298
see impact voters' behavior.

398
00:18:46,298 --> 00:18:49,402
The other piece of this, too,
is I do think there's this, I

399
00:18:49,402 --> 00:18:52,900
mentioned this earlier as well,
but I just want to reiterate it.

400
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,568
Like, I think there's this
growing feeling among

401
00:18:55,568 --> 00:18:58,567
the Democratic Party base
that's asking the question,

402
00:18:58,567 --> 00:19:00,000
what does our party serve?

403
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,663
Does it serve us or does it
serve a shockingly small set of

404
00:19:04,663 --> 00:19:07,640
powerful political stakeholders?

405
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,352
And I want to broaden
that from just, it's

406
00:19:09,352 --> 00:19:10,357
not just corporations.

407
00:19:10,357 --> 00:19:13,038
I think it's wealthy
individuals, it's corporations.

408
00:19:13,038 --> 00:19:14,480
and I'm not blaming them.

409
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,500
I don't think that's like,
I don't think they're evil.

410
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,420
I don't think
corporations are evil,

411
00:19:18,420 --> 00:19:19,557
but I think people's perception

412
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,798
that they are who
these decisions

413
00:19:22,798 --> 00:19:26,000
are made to benefit is a
growing dissatisfaction.

414
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,192
And that's where you see
a lot in polling and also

415
00:19:28,192 --> 00:19:29,240
in election results.

416
00:19:30,617 --> 00:19:32,317
Not taking money
from corporate PACs

417
00:19:32,317 --> 00:19:35,140
as a talking point
when it's true

418
00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:37,200
is like by in a way,
the most persuasive

419
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,798
characterization of a candidate
it for independents, lean

420
00:19:41,798 --> 00:19:44,883
Republicans, and flaming
socialists, right?

421
00:19:44,883 --> 00:19:46,857
And so, like, I think there's a

422
00:19:46,857 --> 00:19:49,488
hesitation or a feeling from
incumbents or a feeling from the

423
00:19:49,488 --> 00:19:53,007
establishment of saying, like,
oh, that's just a talking point

424
00:19:53,007 --> 00:19:55,544
that, like, DSA wants
you to buy into.

425
00:19:55,544 --> 00:19:56,278
No, no, no.

426
00:19:56,278 --> 00:19:58,288
You're Trump splitting
voter, right?

427
00:19:58,288 --> 00:20:00,395
Like, the guy who voted
for Donald Trump and also

428
00:20:00,395 --> 00:20:02,613
for Marie Perez, which
which is a confounding

429
00:20:02,613 --> 00:20:04,778
concept to me, but
like their through

430
00:20:04,778 --> 00:20:07,644
line, for better or worse,
was actually not taking

431
00:20:07,644 --> 00:20:10,394
money from corporate PACs,
which is insane to me,

432
00:20:10,394 --> 00:20:11,857
but also like the truth.

433
00:20:11,857 --> 00:20:14,960
And so I think there's
this real rejection

434
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,597
and across the board in
a lot of these races,

435
00:20:16,597 --> 00:20:18,617
that's been one of the
big through lines.

436
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,817
Trump did an excellent job
of positioning himself

437
00:20:23,817 --> 00:20:28,117
as kind of for the little guy
and against big corporations

438
00:20:28,117 --> 00:20:32,940
and in a way that many of
us find really confounding,

439
00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:34,057
but he did it.

440
00:20:34,057 --> 00:20:37,420
And he also did it
against foreign wars

441
00:20:37,420 --> 00:20:39,622
and a variety of other
things, most of which he's

442
00:20:39,622 --> 00:20:42,259
completely gone against,
particularly in the second term.

443
00:20:42,259 --> 00:20:44,798
But he managed to sell that.

444
00:20:44,798 --> 00:20:46,057
And it was real.

445
00:20:46,057 --> 00:20:47,480
And you're absolutely right.

446
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,740
I mean, I think that,
particularly in the age of AI,

447
00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:53,711
I think that people are
seeing themselves and their

448
00:20:53,711 --> 00:20:56,682
careers and their jobs and
everything that they've

449
00:20:56,682 --> 00:20:58,480
worked for being flushed away.

450
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,930
And they're floating along
these rivers like Flotsam

451
00:21:02,930 --> 00:21:07,380
and Jetsam and these rivers
of economic uncertainty.

452
00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:11,460
And why am I here, right?

453
00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:14,384
And I think even this is
true of the tax increases

454
00:21:14,384 --> 00:21:17,453
that Democrats passed in
Olympia, $9 billion last

455
00:21:17,453 --> 00:21:21,038
year, the millionaire's tax,
capital gains tax, whatnot.

456
00:21:21,038 --> 00:21:23,097
It's like, well, what did I get?

457
00:21:23,097 --> 00:21:26,395
And that's what incumbents
are going to have to

458
00:21:26,395 --> 00:21:29,778
message and figure out how
to sell what they did.

459
00:21:29,778 --> 00:21:31,837
Because is it
impacting your rent?

460
00:21:31,837 --> 00:21:33,400
Is it impacting child care?

461
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:34,240
No, no.

462
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,298
I mean, realistically,
let's be honest.

463
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,019
One other, no, I'll
save that actually.

464
00:21:41,298 --> 00:21:42,460
Turn it over in the middle.

465
00:21:43,857 --> 00:21:45,660
He doesn't want to
hear me yap that long.

466
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:48,636
Well, I want to build on this
because both of you mentioned

467
00:21:48,636 --> 00:21:50,623
the concept of a fighter
and someone who's going

468
00:21:50,623 --> 00:21:51,960
to fight for them, which
begs the question,

469
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,154
what does it look like
when an incumbent or a

470
00:21:55,154 --> 00:21:57,854
challenger is expressing,
you know, I'm going to

471
00:21:57,854 --> 00:21:59,380
fight for you, what does
that tactically look like

472
00:21:59,380 --> 00:22:01,904
Like, and when have you seen
candidates express that well

473
00:22:01,904 --> 00:22:02,960
and kind of in what ways?

474
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:08,963
Yeah, I mean, I think this
is one of the big contrasts

475
00:22:08,963 --> 00:22:12,228
that comes out of the,
like, who you're choosing

476
00:22:12,228 --> 00:22:13,940
to take money from piece.

477
00:22:14,980 --> 00:22:18,672
This is a it's not just a it's
just it's not just a talking

478
00:22:18,672 --> 00:22:21,740
point right like choosing
not to if you're if you're

479
00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:23,770
going up against a lot
of power and money and

480
00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:26,805
institution and endorsements and
you're actively choosing not

481
00:22:26,805 --> 00:22:29,597
to take money from people that
might willingly give it to you

482
00:22:29,597 --> 00:22:32,490
that is like an active choice
and certainly as a bloodthirsty

483
00:22:32,490 --> 00:22:35,547
consultant my recommendation
is typically take every

484
00:22:35,547 --> 00:22:37,337
dollar you can get, right?

485
00:22:37,337 --> 00:22:40,576
And yet, I think there is,
one of the ways people

486
00:22:40,576 --> 00:22:42,663
demonstrate well
that they're going

487
00:22:42,663 --> 00:22:45,230
to fight for you is by
saying, I'm actively

488
00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:48,077
not going to take money from
these special interests,

489
00:22:48,077 --> 00:22:49,759
these PACs, these corporations.

490
00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:51,960
And that polls, by the
way, extremely well.

491
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,097
And we've seen it
across the country.

492
00:22:54,097 --> 00:22:58,460
Candidates that take that
position are winning everywhere.

493
00:22:58,460 --> 00:23:00,180
The other piece that
I think is really,

494
00:23:00,180 --> 00:23:02,594
is fascinating to me
personally, as we look at

495
00:23:02,594 --> 00:23:05,577
Washington state's political
dynamics specifically,

496
00:23:05,577 --> 00:23:09,318
is that there's this kind
of growing progressive

497
00:23:09,318 --> 00:23:12,880
infrastructure that is
putting real money and

498
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,625
power and boots on the ground
in a way that, at least for the

499
00:23:15,625 --> 00:23:18,490
time that I've been working
in politics, I haven't quite

500
00:23:18,490 --> 00:23:19,202
seen before.

501
00:23:19,202 --> 00:23:21,087
I'm seeing Working
Families Party

502
00:23:21,087 --> 00:23:24,125
and Transit Riders Union
union and Tech for Housing

503
00:23:24,125 --> 00:23:26,978
and Tech for Taxes and
groups I actually hadn't

504
00:23:26,978 --> 00:23:29,913
even heard of before
this election cycle who

505
00:23:29,913 --> 00:23:33,471
I love like Progressive
Victory show up and launch

506
00:23:33,471 --> 00:23:37,077
canvases with 20 or 30 or 40
camp people and go out and

507
00:23:37,077 --> 00:23:41,240
hit doors and be really good at
it like they have trained they

508
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,200
They have practiced.

509
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,617
They have talked about it.

510
00:23:43,617 --> 00:23:46,394
I'm used to sort of like the
folks on my progressive side

511
00:23:46,394 --> 00:23:47,778
being like, yeah, totally.

512
00:23:47,778 --> 00:23:53,038
I will join you in a tweet
storm about this issue all day.

513
00:23:53,038 --> 00:23:55,634
And then like I talked to
them about knocking on

514
00:23:55,634 --> 00:23:58,298
doors and they're like,
okay, that's not for me.

515
00:23:58,298 --> 00:24:02,199
And so I'm seeing this growth
of like really putting our

516
00:24:02,199 --> 00:24:03,979
money where our mouth is.

517
00:24:03,980 --> 00:24:07,170
a little self-interested
here, but I think a part of

518
00:24:07,170 --> 00:24:08,919
that is some of the
PACs that we've talked

519
00:24:08,919 --> 00:24:10,632
about in Seattle
where we've made

520
00:24:10,632 --> 00:24:14,180
the decision to say, we
don't want to just rely on

521
00:24:14,180 --> 00:24:18,500
when a handful of powerful
unions that we love

522
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:21,019
are ready to make a decision
to support a candidate.

523
00:24:21,019 --> 00:24:22,980
We want to go out and
raise money for ourselves.

524
00:24:22,980 --> 00:24:25,568
And even sometimes when
they're not that interested

525
00:24:25,568 --> 00:24:27,125
in a candidate, like
Katie Wilson had two

526
00:24:27,125 --> 00:24:28,500
unions that endorsed her, right?

527
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:31,480
But we still managed to raise
half a million dollars,

528
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,680
not quite your
almost $2 million,

529
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,160
but half a million dollars to
communicate on her behalf.

530
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,278
But that was a lot of
progressive donors

531
00:24:39,278 --> 00:24:42,423
and activists and organizations
that typically might have

532
00:24:42,423 --> 00:24:44,655
been tweeting on Bluesky or whatever, is

533
00:24:44,655 --> 00:24:45,640
it still tweeting?

534
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,471
But they were like, no, no,
no, I'm gonna put $10,000

535
00:24:49,471 --> 00:24:50,920
where my mouth is.

536
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,038
That's something that's
new, I feel like,

537
00:24:53,038 --> 00:24:55,140
where they're
responding to fighters

538
00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:58,894
and they're saying, like, I
get that this game requires

539
00:24:58,894 --> 00:25:01,900
real money and power behind
it, and I'm not just going to

540
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:02,778
let the other side do it.

541
00:25:02,778 --> 00:25:05,298
Like, we're going to
play our part, too.

542
00:25:05,298 --> 00:25:07,538
That was super
interesting to me.

543
00:25:07,538 --> 00:25:08,597
No question.

544
00:25:08,597 --> 00:25:11,019
I mean, there's a lot
of energy on the left.

545
00:25:11,019 --> 00:25:15,077
I mean, and I think the rise
of the Democratic Socialist,

546
00:25:15,077 --> 00:25:17,967
you know, which, you
know, a decade ago was

547
00:25:17,967 --> 00:25:20,700
kind of isolated to
Bernie Sanders, right?

548
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:23,756
But now this is a real thing,
and in the 43rd District,

549
00:25:23,756 --> 00:25:26,882
it's probably a third of the
voters, you know, because

550
00:25:26,882 --> 00:25:29,660
this is billed as a 43rd
District debate, right?

551
00:25:29,660 --> 00:25:31,720
So we should probably
touch on that.

552
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,405
But, you know, it is
a real segment of the

553
00:25:35,405 --> 00:25:37,420
primary electorate.

554
00:25:37,420 --> 00:25:40,500
I mean, they've more or less
taken over the Democratic Party

555
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:41,920
and most of the Seattle LDs.

556
00:25:43,180 --> 00:25:47,632
And I think progress
and evolution are a

557
00:25:47,632 --> 00:25:50,057
good thing, frankly.

558
00:25:51,259 --> 00:25:54,314
And I personally would
like to see a European

559
00:25:54,314 --> 00:25:58,221
multi-party system, but
as the political science

560
00:25:58,221 --> 00:26:02,557
student I once was, but we
are in a two-party system,

561
00:26:02,557 --> 00:26:05,403
and we're fighting over what
the heart and the soul of

562
00:26:05,403 --> 00:26:07,805
the Democratic Party is,
And I think that's a

563
00:26:07,805 --> 00:26:08,980
debate worth having.

564
00:26:08,980 --> 00:26:13,146
But I also think that this is
happening because, you know,

565
00:26:13,146 --> 00:26:15,057
it's not just in this race.

566
00:26:15,057 --> 00:26:17,420
It's in the 46th
and Gerry Pollet.

567
00:26:17,420 --> 00:26:19,640
It's in the 32nd
with Lauren Davis.

568
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,180
It's in the 23rd with,
you know, Tarra Simmons.

569
00:26:24,180 --> 00:26:26,096
It's, you know, this
is happening kind of

570
00:26:26,096 --> 00:26:27,000
all over the place.

571
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,420
It's the Amy Walen race.

572
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:31,440
It's in a variety of places.

573
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,269
And I think this is one
reason this is happening

574
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:39,394
is that Democrats have had
a very healthy majority

575
00:26:39,394 --> 00:26:43,720
in Olympia for decades in
the statehouse since 2016,

576
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,980
17-ish in the state senate.

577
00:26:45,980 --> 00:26:49,720
And there's basically a lack of
a functional Republican Party.

578
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,403
If this was an era where we
were like, oh, we need this

579
00:26:53,403 --> 00:26:57,597
one seat, you know, like don't
fuck with this type of thing.

580
00:26:57,597 --> 00:27:01,346
Like, you know, we're just going
to hike it up and, you know,

581
00:27:01,346 --> 00:27:02,721
support this person.

582
00:27:02,721 --> 00:27:04,582
I mean, you know,
10 years ago, there

583
00:27:04,582 --> 00:27:07,617
was Democrats in the state, in
the state legislature that were

584
00:27:07,617 --> 00:27:11,742
anti-choice, that were anti-gay,
that were, you know, anti-every

585
00:27:11,742 --> 00:27:15,201
tax, that were anti-virtually
everything that most people

586
00:27:15,201 --> 00:27:17,000
in this room
probably believe in.

587
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,736
And all of those
people are gone.

588
00:27:18,736 --> 00:27:20,165
I I mean, you know, it's funny

589
00:27:20,165 --> 00:27:22,961
because it's like some of the
people that are now labeled

590
00:27:22,961 --> 00:27:25,577
as being, oh, they're so
conservative as a Democrat.

591
00:27:25,577 --> 00:27:27,432
It's like 10 years ago
they would have been

592
00:27:27,432 --> 00:27:28,278
a flaming liberal.

593
00:27:28,278 --> 00:27:31,200
But the center has changed
and the center has shifted.

594
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,872
And that's not a bad thing,
but it just we have to

595
00:27:33,872 --> 00:27:35,380
recognize it is what it is.

596
00:27:35,380 --> 00:27:38,038
There's no functional
Republican Party in the state.

597
00:27:38,038 --> 00:27:41,065
And so the tension is
becoming versus what

598
00:27:41,065 --> 00:27:42,880
kind of Democrat are you?

599
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,567
Are you a moderate establishment
Democrat or are you a

600
00:27:48,567 --> 00:27:51,380
progressive fighter Democrat?

601
00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:56,351
And that coalition shifts around
a variety of issues, around

602
00:27:56,351 --> 00:28:00,499
taxation, around public
safety, are probably the two

603
00:28:00,499 --> 00:28:03,420
biggest areas I see in
the party right now,

604
00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:05,817
but sometimes other things.

605
00:28:05,817 --> 00:28:08,317
Yeah, one little tiny
point I want to make,

606
00:28:08,317 --> 00:28:10,817
and then obviously we'll get to
these issues more later too,

607
00:28:10,817 --> 00:28:14,096
but one of the surprising
facts actually is the

608
00:28:14,096 --> 00:28:17,421
Democratic Socialists in
Washington State and Seattle

609
00:28:17,421 --> 00:28:20,390
have actually not endorsed any
of the challengers running

610
00:28:20,390 --> 00:28:21,960
against incumbents this year.

611
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,690
And so I think the idea
that that's a big part

612
00:28:24,690 --> 00:28:27,660
of this here locally is
just not true, which is...

613
00:28:27,660 --> 00:28:30,180
Well, but not the
organization, but the people.

614
00:28:30,180 --> 00:28:33,200
Maybe, I mean, but my point
is that it's a real contrast

615
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,380
between what you
saw in New York,

616
00:28:35,380 --> 00:28:38,117
where Brad Lander
and Claire Valdez,

617
00:28:38,117 --> 00:28:41,741
and that whole Mamdani slate
was a full DSA Mamdani

618
00:28:41,741 --> 00:28:45,896
slate of candidates
with a very specific

619
00:28:45,896 --> 00:28:50,607
prescription around DSA,
and that is just, like,

620
00:28:50,607 --> 00:28:52,500
not the dynamic here yet.

621
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:54,617
who knows if that'll change.

622
00:28:54,617 --> 00:28:57,400
I'm not as up on
the idiosyncrasies

623
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,597
of New York DSA
versus Seattle DSA.

624
00:29:00,740 --> 00:29:03,640
I will say I do a lot of
work in Oregon as well.

625
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,117
DSA is a much bigger part of
those intraparty challenges.

626
00:29:07,117 --> 00:29:10,140
But I will also add there's much
fewer intraparty challenges

627
00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:12,577
in Oregon this year.

628
00:29:12,577 --> 00:29:16,076
One of the reasons why, I
think, is that the party there

629
00:29:16,076 --> 00:29:19,376
has done a much better job
of planting a flag on what

630
00:29:19,376 --> 00:29:23,019
the places where they're
gonna go out and challenge

631
00:29:23,019 --> 00:29:25,718
Republicans. It was my
first time and I found it

632
00:29:25,718 --> 00:29:28,453
so different than what
I'm used to in Washington

633
00:29:28,453 --> 00:29:31,357
State but I went to the
Democratic Party of Oregon's

634
00:29:31,357 --> 00:29:33,664
conference this year because
we were doing a ton of

635
00:29:33,664 --> 00:29:34,817
work for their caucus and

636
00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:39,034
it was like a it was a
total rah-rah like I felt

637
00:29:39,034 --> 00:29:42,375
like I was in a cult in a good
way where they were really

638
00:29:42,375 --> 00:29:45,699
gassing us up about like we're
gonna go we're gonna take a

639
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:48,856
bite out of the senate majority
leaders or the senate minority

640
00:29:48,856 --> 00:29:51,923
leaders district we're probably
gonna lose by 10 points

641
00:29:51,923 --> 00:29:54,433
but we want to get it to
five like it was like

642
00:29:54,433 --> 00:29:57,384
it was it was like nasty
and personal in a way that

643
00:29:57,384 --> 00:30:00,105
I dug like it was like
we're gonna go and make

644
00:30:00,105 --> 00:30:03,345
it close in a district we we
have no business making it

645
00:30:03,345 --> 00:30:06,577
close in and we're going to
raise a shitload of money to

646
00:30:06,577 --> 00:30:06,904
do it.

647
00:30:06,904 --> 00:30:08,150
And I was super into it.

648
00:30:08,150 --> 00:30:11,160
Right. And I actually think
that like a lot of the people

649
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,713
like me who might've been more
on the like DSA progressive

650
00:30:14,713 --> 00:30:17,865
leftist background, we're
like, hell yeah, like let's

651
00:30:17,865 --> 00:30:18,432
go. Right.

652
00:30:18,432 --> 00:30:20,759
And part of it is too,
they were like, and when

653
00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:23,146
we get this super majority,
we're going to enshrine

654
00:30:23,146 --> 00:30:24,201
reproductive rights.

655
00:30:24,201 --> 00:30:26,298
We're going going
to tax the rich.

656
00:30:26,298 --> 00:30:29,545
We're going to do all of
these awesome things.

657
00:30:29,545 --> 00:30:31,336
And so I guess it goes back

658
00:30:31,337 --> 00:30:34,601
to your actual question, which
was like, is there any evidence?

659
00:30:34,601 --> 00:30:36,597
This is a question a
while ago, whatever.

660
00:30:36,597 --> 00:30:38,182
But is there any
evidence that people

661
00:30:38,182 --> 00:30:40,380
are dissatisfied with what
we're approaching this

662
00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:42,750
year? I think there's
a bit of tension.

663
00:30:42,750 --> 00:30:43,711
I feel tension.

664
00:30:43,711 --> 00:30:45,857
I'm not dissing any
of the historic

665
00:30:45,857 --> 00:30:49,892
achievements that came out of
Olympia when I say like, man,

666
00:30:49,892 --> 00:30:53,309
I feel it's a bit of like a,
it's an intense marshmallow

667
00:30:53,309 --> 00:30:55,851
test. It's like, you
need to care a lot about

668
00:30:55,851 --> 00:30:58,747
this thing that maybe
possibly potentially will

669
00:30:58,747 --> 00:31:01,506
make an impact in your
life some many years down

670
00:31:01,506 --> 00:31:02,069
the road.

671
00:31:02,069 --> 00:31:04,172
And that's a harder
sell than I think I'm

672
00:31:04,172 --> 00:31:07,200
getting in the places I do work
like Oregon or New Hampshire,

673
00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:11,538
where the battle lines are
just a little bit clearer.

674
00:31:11,538 --> 00:31:12,660
And I think a lot of
these challenges,

675
00:31:12,660 --> 00:31:14,519
one of the things I love
about them is like,

676
00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:16,220
man, they would be the
first person on the bus

677
00:31:16,220 --> 00:31:19,019
from Seattle to Yakima to go
knock doors in the 14th LD.

678
00:31:19,019 --> 00:31:21,420
If that was like
meaningfully on the table

679
00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:24,480
and we've just sort
of like given up,

680
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,259
maybe that's not fair
and you can correct me,

681
00:31:26,259 --> 00:31:30,673
but I feel like genuinely,
like we've just given up on

682
00:31:30,673 --> 00:31:32,778
districts that Harris won.

683
00:31:32,778 --> 00:31:34,857
I feel like that.

684
00:31:34,857 --> 00:31:37,838
I feel that the interest
groups have decided,

685
00:31:37,838 --> 00:31:40,900
fairly or unfairly, we
have enough Democrats.

686
00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:42,337
Yeah, I think you're right.

687
00:31:42,337 --> 00:31:44,750
And that's actually the
point I'm making is like I –

688
00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:47,159
there are – I mean, I don't
want people to know this.

689
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,468
Like there are enough districts
in Washington State that

690
00:31:50,468 --> 00:31:53,708
Harris won in 2024 that if we
won those at the local level,

691
00:31:53,708 --> 00:31:55,500
we would have a supermajority.

692
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:57,900
I mean, I have a – What
are we doing here, guys?

693
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:00,500
I have a candidate in
the 18th legislative

694
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:02,140
district in Clark County.

695
00:32:02,140 --> 00:32:03,900
Let me know when the
next door knock comes.

696
00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:04,900
Randi Knott, right?

697
00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:09,219
And she is getting pummeled
by the RIEs because they're

698
00:32:09,219 --> 00:32:11,660
afraid that she's going to win.

699
00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:13,597
And there's no help
from the Democrats.

700
00:32:13,597 --> 00:32:16,711
And she has not even been able
to amass enough money from the

701
00:32:16,711 --> 00:32:20,019
Democratic interest groups to
send out a single piece of mail.

702
00:32:20,019 --> 00:32:20,400
Not one.

703
00:32:21,538 --> 00:32:22,557
Which is bullshit.

704
00:32:22,557 --> 00:32:23,420
Keep calling people.

705
00:32:23,420 --> 00:32:24,420
Keep calling the unions.

706
00:32:24,420 --> 00:32:25,077
Keep calling all this.

707
00:32:25,077 --> 00:32:28,163
You know, and so the
Republicans are so freaked

708
00:32:28,163 --> 00:32:31,798
out that this woman is going
to win that they've now sent

709
00:32:31,798 --> 00:32:33,459
out three pieces of mail.

710
00:32:33,460 --> 00:32:35,471
And the interest groups
are kind of like, well,

711
00:32:35,471 --> 00:32:37,636
we have enough Democrats
to pass whatever we need.

712
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:38,200
So whatever.

713
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,240
Yeah. And Harris
won that district.

714
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,298
Absolutely. By four
points almost.

715
00:32:43,298 --> 00:32:44,920
We won the state senate seat.

716
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:45,960
We won the state senate seat.

717
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,480
And Marie Perez won that
district by almost six points.

718
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,045
So, like, this is a
district we could clean

719
00:32:50,045 --> 00:32:50,940
house in if we wanted to.

720
00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:51,980
I'm on your side on this one.

721
00:32:51,980 --> 00:32:52,980
Tell me when the IE is on.

722
00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:53,557
No, it's okay.

723
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:55,617
Call Kurt.

724
00:32:55,617 --> 00:32:57,019
Yeah, you're not like me, man.

725
00:32:57,019 --> 00:32:59,470
On that note, though,
let's talk about some of

726
00:32:59,470 --> 00:33:00,759
our local challengers.

727
00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:03,317
But before doing that,
I jotted this down.

728
00:33:03,317 --> 00:33:06,317
A cult in a good way
means it's a good cult.

729
00:33:06,317 --> 00:33:07,380
Like it's working.

730
00:33:08,420 --> 00:33:09,278
That is.

731
00:33:09,278 --> 00:33:11,798
So whatever they're doing
in Oregon, I'm scared.

732
00:33:11,798 --> 00:33:13,680
Or we could take a few notes.

733
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,592
So, but taking us to, like,
let's talk about some of

734
00:33:16,592 --> 00:33:19,779
the challenges that's going
on right now, because some

735
00:33:19,779 --> 00:33:23,596
insurgents really are leaning on
grassroots and labor networks,

736
00:33:23,596 --> 00:33:26,576
but others are leaning on
to tech, public safety, or

737
00:33:26,576 --> 00:33:30,045
technocratic solutions, so
fundraising and endorsements

738
00:33:30,045 --> 00:33:31,778
between all of those may vary.

739
00:33:31,778 --> 00:33:35,978
Now, are these Democratic
challengers in Washington a

740
00:33:35,978 --> 00:33:40,449
part of a coherent movement,
or rather are they a patchwork

741
00:33:40,449 --> 00:33:42,271
of local insurgencies?

742
00:33:42,271 --> 00:33:44,738
And from that
point, what do they

743
00:33:44,738 --> 00:33:47,019
share, and how do they differ?

744
00:33:48,117 --> 00:33:49,240
Yeah, I mean, I'll jump in.

745
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,117
Like, I don't think, in
contrast to a place like

746
00:33:52,117 --> 00:33:55,000
New York, I don't think
they're a slate, right?

747
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,240
There was a much clearer, this
is a slate of people that

748
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,086
are challenging incumbents,
we're going to support all

749
00:34:01,086 --> 00:34:02,990
of them, knock doors for
all of them, raise money

750
00:34:02,990 --> 00:34:05,008
for all of them in New York,
that I just don't think

751
00:34:05,008 --> 00:34:06,740
has materialized here
in Seattle at all.

752
00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:09,333
The mayor has endorsed a
couple of folks, but it's

753
00:34:09,333 --> 00:34:12,179
not across the board, and
it's not nearly as cohesive.

754
00:34:12,179 --> 00:34:14,367
What is interesting to
me, though, on the flip

755
00:34:14,367 --> 00:34:16,556
side of that, is the set
of organizations that

756
00:34:16,556 --> 00:34:18,860
have been willing to buy
into those challenges.

757
00:34:18,860 --> 00:34:22,128
It's groups like The
Urbanist, Working Families

758
00:34:22,128 --> 00:34:25,873
Party, AFT Washington was a
surprise to me that endorsed

759
00:34:25,873 --> 00:34:29,460
multiple challengers against
incumbents as a union,

760
00:34:29,460 --> 00:34:32,940
Tech for Housing, Tech for
Taxes, Progressive Victory.

761
00:34:32,940 --> 00:34:35,679
I could go on and on and
bore you with acronyms.

762
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:38,920
But there is a shared
infrastructure that

763
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,440
is willing to jump in
and support challenges.

764
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,295
Just as interesting to me,
although, on the other side,

765
00:34:45,295 --> 00:34:48,184
is pretty much uniformly,
larger unions have been

766
00:34:48,184 --> 00:34:51,079
pretty much disinterested
in any challenge,

767
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:54,106
regardless of the
idiosyncrasies of the race,

768
00:34:54,106 --> 00:34:57,599
who has more experience,
what their voting record is.

769
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:01,039
Is by and large, large
unions have pretty much

770
00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:04,614
passed on every challenge,
for the one exception,

771
00:35:04,614 --> 00:35:07,840
I believe, of Amy Walen
versus Jessica Forsythe,

772
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,021
where the contrast is
so clear because of the

773
00:35:10,021 --> 00:35:11,199
millionaires tax vote,

774
00:35:12,599 --> 00:35:15,338
which I think gets to some
other fundamental issues.

775
00:35:15,340 --> 00:35:16,780
But pretty much everywhere else.

776
00:35:16,780 --> 00:35:18,719
Tarra Simmons versus
Daria Ilgen.

777
00:35:20,420 --> 00:35:22,777
Ron and Will versus Jerry.

778
00:35:23,980 --> 00:35:25,579
Kelabe versus Sharon
Tomiko Santos.

779
00:35:25,579 --> 00:35:28,110
I won't name all of them,
but like pretty much across

780
00:35:28,110 --> 00:35:30,759
the board, unions have chosen
to back the incumbents.

781
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:31,559
And the same.

782
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:32,619
Lauren Davis, you know.

783
00:35:32,619 --> 00:35:34,039
Yeah, Lauren Davis versus Imraan.

784
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:36,500
The same set of progressive
groups have actually

785
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:38,659
backed pretty much all
of the challengers.

786
00:35:38,659 --> 00:35:41,003
And that speaks to this
like bubbling and growing

787
00:35:41,003 --> 00:35:43,518
infrastructure that I think
is really fascinating.

788
00:35:43,518 --> 00:35:48,088
The one other piece I want
to add to that without

789
00:35:48,088 --> 00:35:53,358
rambling too long is that I
think the Democratic Party

790
00:35:53,358 --> 00:35:58,980
as a vehicle for grassroots
activism is pretty much dead.

791
00:35:58,980 --> 00:36:03,315
Like there is no meaningful
door knocking grassroots

792
00:36:03,315 --> 00:36:08,036
campaign coming from the state
Democratic Party or really

793
00:36:08,036 --> 00:36:10,059
the caucuses of any kind.

794
00:36:10,059 --> 00:36:12,974
For better or worse we
could debate that instead

795
00:36:12,974 --> 00:36:16,398
what we're seeing are these
progressive organizations

796
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,123
like Working Families Party that
are stepping into that vacuum

797
00:36:20,123 --> 00:36:22,822
Common Power is another
group that I think is super

798
00:36:22,822 --> 00:36:25,150
interesting they helped a
ton with Katie Wilson's

799
00:36:25,150 --> 00:36:27,753
race and they really put
their money where their

800
00:36:27,753 --> 00:36:30,817
mouth is like those guys
knocked like 30 000 doors

801
00:36:30,817 --> 00:36:33,664
right which is a lot of
doors in a local race like

802
00:36:33,664 --> 00:36:37,460
this and that's actually like
really interesting and it speaks

803
00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:39,501
20 doors an hour do the
math guys you know it's

804
00:36:39,501 --> 00:36:41,599
like that's a lot of that's
a lot of people it's

805
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:45,492
not just Bluesky warriors right
like that's that's real boots

806
00:36:45,492 --> 00:36:48,840
on the ground and I mean and
and you know I I think that's

807
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,460
very true and I think that you
can if you think about the 1960

808
00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:54,980
1960s style organizing
structure, right?

809
00:36:54,980 --> 00:36:56,659
You had the Democratic Party

810
00:36:56,659 --> 00:36:58,199
was the only multi-issue,

811
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:03,239
you know, kind of committee
that worked on campaigns.

812
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,675
And then you had a variety
of single issue, you know,

813
00:37:06,675 --> 00:37:09,710
committees like, you
know, the choice groups,

814
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:13,161
the environmental groups,
whatever, you know, labor, et

815
00:37:13,161 --> 00:37:16,818
cetera, that were single issue,
but that did multiple functions,

816
00:37:16,820 --> 00:37:20,422
right? And so now that
there's all of these other,

817
00:37:20,422 --> 00:37:23,938
in the new organizing
model, kind of post-2000,

818
00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:27,246
in a lot of ways, you're seeing
multi-issue committees that

819
00:37:27,246 --> 00:37:29,927
have multiple functions
that are not the Democratic

820
00:37:29,927 --> 00:37:32,360
Party and that are more
appealing to people, frankly,

821
00:37:33,579 --> 00:37:35,139
like some of the groups
that you mentioned.

822
00:37:37,260 --> 00:37:40,679
So the question is, are
they a part of a patchwork

823
00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:43,297
or is it a coherent strategy?

824
00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:44,777
Yeah, I'm struggling
with that question

825
00:37:44,780 --> 00:37:47,619
because ultimately I think if
you force me into one of them,

826
00:37:47,619 --> 00:37:51,635
which is totally your job, I
think I would ultimately say

827
00:37:51,635 --> 00:37:53,639
it's a patchwork of candidates.

828
00:37:53,639 --> 00:37:55,840
I don't necessarily see a slate.

829
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:01,500
I think it can become one,
but it is not always one.

830
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:04,862
You know, I think there's
a race specific, you know,

831
00:38:04,862 --> 00:38:06,739
candidate specific things.

832
00:38:06,739 --> 00:38:09,916
I've seen like a couple
of times, I guess the one

833
00:38:09,916 --> 00:38:13,746
example I might give was like
Hannah and Kelabe and Sharon

834
00:38:13,746 --> 00:38:15,619
Tomiko Santos in that seat.

835
00:38:15,619 --> 00:38:18,010
They've kind of like
gravitated a little bit

836
00:38:18,010 --> 00:38:20,659
more towards each other as
a little bit of a slate I

837
00:38:20,659 --> 00:38:24,070
don't quite see that with
like hannah and will or

838
00:38:24,070 --> 00:38:27,139
hannah and ron in the
46th which is not like a

839
00:38:27,139 --> 00:38:29,581
shot at any particular
race I just I just don't

840
00:38:29,581 --> 00:38:32,280
I guess I'm confidently
saying like I don't really

841
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,297
see them as running as
a slate really at all

842
00:38:34,297 --> 00:38:36,659
I don't think they're
approaching it but you also

843
00:38:36,659 --> 00:38:39,402
have these Democratic
incumbents that some of

844
00:38:39,402 --> 00:38:42,442
whom may have strayed on
one issue right you know

845
00:38:42,442 --> 00:38:46,039
whereas like the Hackney
race is about about public

846
00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:48,838
safety right but he was
fine on the millionaires

847
00:38:48,838 --> 00:38:52,159
tax right you know for
progressive so it depends on

848
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:55,679
it depends on the dynamics
of the individual race

849
00:38:55,679 --> 00:38:56,760
to a certain extent.

850
00:38:59,139 --> 00:38:59,679
Is that an answer?

851
00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:00,940
Sorry, I was trying.

852
00:39:00,940 --> 00:39:02,860
I think you all are
unpacking this really well

853
00:39:02,860 --> 00:39:04,739
in a very interesting way.

854
00:39:04,739 --> 00:39:07,059
And it does bring us
to this matter of,

855
00:39:07,059 --> 00:39:09,179
you know, our primary
battles nationally

856
00:39:09,179 --> 00:39:12,179
have produced some
energizing upsets

857
00:39:12,179 --> 00:39:16,179
and also costly
intraparty wounds.

858
00:39:16,179 --> 00:39:18,579
Washington's deep
blue status doesn't,

859
00:39:18,579 --> 00:39:21,800
changes, but doesn't eliminate
general election risk

860
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,820
risk, or legislative costs.

861
00:39:23,820 --> 00:39:28,059
So could repeated intraparty
fights in Washington

862
00:39:28,059 --> 00:39:31,219
weaken Democratic
electoral prospects

863
00:39:31,219 --> 00:39:34,648
or legislative effectiveness,
or could they strengthen

864
00:39:34,648 --> 00:39:37,820
accountability and
policy innovation?

865
00:39:37,820 --> 00:39:38,139
Yes.

866
00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:43,800
Sorry, go ahead.

867
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,679
No, I mean, I think yes to
both of your questions.

868
00:39:47,679 --> 00:39:52,282
I mean, look, I think that
challengers to incumbents are

869
00:39:52,282 --> 00:39:56,396
a good thing as, you know,
from a little D democracy

870
00:39:56,396 --> 00:39:58,159
point of view, right?

871
00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:00,507
I mean, obviously, if I'm
working for somebody, I'm

872
00:40:00,507 --> 00:40:02,856
like, oh, I don't want to
even challenge you because

873
00:40:02,856 --> 00:40:03,838
I want to win the race.

874
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,318
I mean, my job is to win, right?

875
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,436
And the easiest way to
win is to not have a

876
00:40:07,436 --> 00:40:08,719
candidate against you.

877
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,371
But, you know, from the little
D democracy standpoint, are

878
00:40:11,371 --> 00:40:13,753
there a lot of incumbents
across America that are not

879
00:40:13,753 --> 00:40:14,998
challenged that should be?

880
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,010
Absolutely. And this
is on both parties.

881
00:40:18,010 --> 00:40:20,402
This is on both progressives and

882
00:40:20,402 --> 00:40:22,440
moderates and everything.

883
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,079
You know, should people be held
accountable for their votes?

884
00:40:26,079 --> 00:40:29,139
And should voters
get a real choice?

885
00:40:29,139 --> 00:40:31,530
Absolutely. Should
they get it every

886
00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:32,802
election? Absolutely.

887
00:40:32,802 --> 00:40:33,246
Do they?

888
00:40:33,246 --> 00:40:34,199
No. Almost never.

889
00:40:35,260 --> 00:40:37,219
I mean, I live in the 46.

890
00:40:37,219 --> 00:40:40,838
Gerry Pollet is
my representative.

891
00:40:40,838 --> 00:40:44,262
This is the first time I've
ever had a chance to weigh in

892
00:40:44,262 --> 00:40:46,239
on somebody against him, ever.

893
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:47,918
He was appointed to the seat.

894
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,780
Nobody meaningful
ever challenged him.

895
00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:52,751
And, you know, you may love
him, you may hate him, but you

896
00:40:52,751 --> 00:40:55,980
didn't really get an opportunity
to replace him either way.

897
00:40:55,980 --> 00:40:58,186
I mean, yeah, there's been
challengers, but they've

898
00:40:58,186 --> 00:40:59,039
been lame, you know.

899
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:02,239
So I think from a little D
democracy point of view,

900
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:03,960
challengers are an
excellent thing.

901
00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:07,978
Now, can they cost you a seat?

902
00:41:07,980 --> 00:41:10,579
I mean, would you have
Marie Gluesenkamp Perez

903
00:41:10,579 --> 00:41:15,599
if the incumbent hadn't lost
her congressional race?

904
00:41:16,780 --> 00:41:18,619
Debatable answer, probably not.

905
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,985
So, you know, and these
things happen on both

906
00:41:22,985 --> 00:41:24,398
sides of the aisle.

907
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,985
You know, if the wrong person,
quote unquote, comes out of

908
00:41:27,985 --> 00:41:31,273
the primary, does it change
the dynamics of the race?

909
00:41:31,273 --> 00:41:34,637
Absolutely. Now, do I see
Republicans somehow having

910
00:41:34,637 --> 00:41:37,699
a surge in Washington and
taking back the House or

911
00:41:37,699 --> 00:41:38,447
Senate? No.

912
00:41:38,447 --> 00:41:41,362
I mean, again, lack of
a functional Republican

913
00:41:41,362 --> 00:41:44,275
Party in Washington was
one of the points I made

914
00:41:44,275 --> 00:41:47,936
earlier. They're probably the
lamest I've ever seen them.

915
00:41:49,159 --> 00:41:53,438
Yeah, I think I want to take
this in a slightly different

916
00:41:53,438 --> 00:41:58,088
direction, which is to say this
idea that because Ron or Will

917
00:41:58,088 --> 00:42:02,925
is challenging Gerry Pollet
or Kelabe is challenging Sharon

918
00:42:02,925 --> 00:42:07,297
Tomiko Santos or Hannah is
challenging Jamie Pedersen,

919
00:42:07,297 --> 00:42:11,431
The idea that those challenges
are the reason that your

920
00:42:11,431 --> 00:42:15,474
candidate in the 18th LD or
Dimas in the 14th LD or in the

921
00:42:15,474 --> 00:42:20,056
17th LD are not getting the kind
of resources that they should

922
00:42:20,056 --> 00:42:24,460
if we were serious as a party
about growing our majorities.

923
00:42:24,460 --> 00:42:29,387
That idea, like that decision,
you said it earlier, was

924
00:42:29,387 --> 00:42:33,885
a decision made about not
feeling that growing our

925
00:42:33,885 --> 00:42:36,777
majority is all that important.

926
00:42:36,780 --> 00:42:40,219
We have the votes we need
to get what we want.

927
00:42:40,219 --> 00:42:43,719
I'm not blaming the folks
that make those decisions.

928
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:44,699
It's your money.

929
00:42:44,699 --> 00:42:45,599
It's your time.

930
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:46,920
It's your energy.

931
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:48,454
put it where you want.

932
00:42:48,454 --> 00:42:51,864
My only problem with it
is the only person that's

933
00:42:51,864 --> 00:42:56,210
responsible for that decision
is the person who made

934
00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:58,375
it. Don't put that on us.

935
00:42:58,375 --> 00:43:01,619
You made a call
about your politics,

936
00:43:01,619 --> 00:43:02,804
great. Own it.

937
00:43:02,804 --> 00:43:05,371
And the reason I
get so worked up

938
00:43:05,371 --> 00:43:09,318
about that piece of it is
I think that accusation

939
00:43:09,318 --> 00:43:15,079
is fundamentally an admission
that our party is fragile, that

940
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:19,987
it is so weak that a challenge
to an incumbent of 20 plus

941
00:43:19,987 --> 00:43:23,844
years grinds the whole
damn thing to a halt.

942
00:43:23,844 --> 00:43:28,346
And what I think a lot of
challengers, or maybe this is

943
00:43:28,346 --> 00:43:33,277
just me and I'm putting it on
my challengers, are pushing for

944
00:43:33,277 --> 00:43:37,137
is like can we reach for
something a little bit

945
00:43:37,137 --> 00:43:41,297
beyond the horizon that
says there it's possible

946
00:43:41,297 --> 00:43:45,967
to have a democratic party that
is truly truly multicultural

947
00:43:45,967 --> 00:43:51,460
multi-generational diverse in
ideology and economic background

948
00:43:51,460 --> 00:43:55,940
that could sustain more than
just one thing at a time

949
00:43:55,940 --> 00:43:59,411
that would be, I guess what I'm
trying to say ultimately is

950
00:43:59,411 --> 00:44:03,695
like, I think we are so reliant
on the donations and the energy

951
00:44:03,695 --> 00:44:08,460
of one or two major political
stakeholders, whether they be

952
00:44:08,460 --> 00:44:11,226
massive corporations or
individuals or special

953
00:44:11,226 --> 00:44:13,858
interests or labor unions,
that without their

954
00:44:13,860 --> 00:44:16,353
interest, we can't do anything.

955
00:44:16,353 --> 00:44:18,108
And I don't blame them.

956
00:44:18,108 --> 00:44:21,643
Like I think all of us
in this room have taken

957
00:44:21,643 --> 00:44:23,400
too many shortcuts.

958
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,777
Like we have relied on their

959
00:44:25,777 --> 00:44:29,137
power and we have pretended
or deluded ourselves into

960
00:44:29,137 --> 00:44:31,690
thinking that their
power is our power.

961
00:44:31,690 --> 00:44:34,010
But it's borrowed
power and if you

962
00:44:34,010 --> 00:44:36,822
want power you have
to take it yourself.

963
00:44:36,822 --> 00:44:39,838
And for me, that's
like the fundamental

964
00:44:39,838 --> 00:44:43,039
charge here of like,
can we dream of a party

965
00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:46,525
that could sustain a big tent?

966
00:44:46,525 --> 00:44:49,407
Like, I don't mean
that as a cliche.

967
00:44:49,407 --> 00:44:52,369
Like, I believe in a
Democratic Party, as hot

968
00:44:52,369 --> 00:44:54,914
takey as this might feel
to many of my friends on

969
00:44:54,914 --> 00:44:57,588
the progressive side as
well, like I believe in a

970
00:44:57,588 --> 00:45:00,458
Democratic Party that can
sustain Marie Perez and

971
00:45:00,458 --> 00:45:02,943
Hannah. Like that is my party.

972
00:45:02,943 --> 00:45:06,719
I don't find that to be
hypocritical at all and

973
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:11,782
I would challenge us to
reach to not just 50 plus

974
00:45:11,782 --> 00:45:17,677
1 but 60% of the votes and
And to consign these MAGA

975
00:45:17,677 --> 00:45:24,119
people to history by
beating them so thoroughly.

976
00:45:24,119 --> 00:45:25,139
That's what I want.

977
00:45:25,139 --> 00:45:30,378
And I want to be with you, Dean,
on winning in the 18th LD.

978
00:45:30,380 --> 00:45:34,670
There's nothing I want to do
more than run a kick-ass program

979
00:45:34,670 --> 00:45:38,791
in the 18th LD, and I can't, and
I find that to be outrageous

980
00:45:38,791 --> 00:45:43,083
and absurd and unserious as a
party that we're not planting a

981
00:45:43,083 --> 00:45:47,719
flag and saying, Harris won this
district by almost four points.

982
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:48,960
We should clean house.

983
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,905
What are we talking about
that we're giving that a

984
00:45:51,905 --> 00:45:55,139
pass and that your candidate
can't even send a mailer?

985
00:45:55,139 --> 00:45:55,978
Are you kidding me?

986
00:45:55,978 --> 00:45:56,777
That's crazy.

987
00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:01,059
So anybody wants to
donate, randiknott.com.

988
00:46:02,338 --> 00:46:04,199
But, no, I mean, seriously.

989
00:46:04,199 --> 00:46:04,978
That's absurd.

990
00:46:04,978 --> 00:46:07,179
I think we're in
total agreement here.

991
00:46:07,179 --> 00:46:10,945
I mean, and I tell my
candidates all the time, you

992
00:46:10,945 --> 00:46:13,300
have to chart your own course.

993
00:46:13,300 --> 00:46:16,628
You have to, you know,
create your own destiny.

994
00:46:16,628 --> 00:46:19,018
And I also agree
with you that, you

995
00:46:19,018 --> 00:46:22,775
know, that we, you know, in
a two-party system, which

996
00:46:22,775 --> 00:46:26,105
we are for better or for
worse, that we should be

997
00:46:26,105 --> 00:46:28,239
able to sustain both visions.

998
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,811
and, you know, a bird needs
two wings to fly, and I'm

999
00:46:30,811 --> 00:46:32,159
fully supportive of that.

1000
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:34,190
And, you know, it just
has to be the right

1001
00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:35,420
wing in the right place.

1002
00:46:36,498 --> 00:46:40,659
You know, and, you know,
there's lots of very prominent

1003
00:46:40,659 --> 00:46:44,047
Washington politicians
that started by beating

1004
00:46:44,047 --> 00:46:45,458
incumbents, you know.

1005
00:46:45,458 --> 00:46:46,338
Bob Ferguson.

1006
00:46:46,338 --> 00:46:49,503
Bob Ferguson, Gary Locke,
Greg Nickels all beat

1007
00:46:49,503 --> 00:46:51,639
incumbents in their first race.

1008
00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:54,835
Fun fact you know and so
it's not these are these

1009
00:46:54,835 --> 00:46:58,277
are people that beat
incumbents of their own party

1010
00:46:58,277 --> 00:47:01,063
and so this isn't necessarily
a new thing I think what

1011
00:47:01,063 --> 00:47:03,277
the new thing is this
year is how many there

1012
00:47:03,277 --> 00:47:06,460
are and it's an unprecedented
number that are so

1013
00:47:06,460 --> 00:47:09,639
well funded they're
running serious campaigns

1014
00:47:09,639 --> 00:47:12,420
campaigns, whether or not the
interest groups are part of it.

1015
00:47:12,420 --> 00:47:16,262
Like this Will Dreher guy comes
out of nowhere and raises

1016
00:47:16,262 --> 00:47:18,800
$280,000 in five minutes.

1017
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,800
I mean, Ron Davis,
who has been a

1018
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,864
fixture of Seattle politics,
raises $150,000 or so.

1019
00:47:24,864 --> 00:47:26,952
I mean, these are
real challengers.

1020
00:47:26,952 --> 00:47:29,163
This isn't some guy
that puts his name on

1021
00:47:29,163 --> 00:47:30,943
the ballot that raises $10,000.

1022
00:47:30,943 --> 00:47:33,987
You know, these are real
people that are running real

1023
00:47:33,987 --> 00:47:35,980
campaigns and it's impressive.

1024
00:47:35,980 --> 00:47:38,259
- It's no
Goodspaceguy, that's for sure.

1025
00:47:38,259 --> 00:47:41,320
- One other piece I wanna
add, at risk of like,

1026
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,148
I know you have more
questions, but one other piece

1027
00:47:43,148 --> 00:47:43,679
I wanna add is like,

1028
00:47:45,259 --> 00:47:48,940
I believe fundamentally, this
is gonna keep happening.

1029
00:47:48,940 --> 00:47:50,539
This isn't going away.

1030
00:47:50,539 --> 00:47:52,922
We're not gonna stop
seeing Democratic on

1031
00:47:52,922 --> 00:47:54,804
Democratic challengers
unless the Republican

1032
00:47:54,804 --> 00:47:56,730
Party wakes up tomorrow
and decides it's

1033
00:47:56,730 --> 00:47:58,543
gonna be serious
and start competing

1034
00:47:58,543 --> 00:48:01,083
in Washington State, like
which I don't believe

1035
00:48:01,083 --> 00:48:03,820
will happen and so part
of why I bring that up is

1036
00:48:03,820 --> 00:48:07,077
like we've got to figure
out how to be able to have

1037
00:48:07,077 --> 00:48:10,532
good fights righteous
fights fights where we

1038
00:48:10,532 --> 00:48:13,257
disagree and I go to the
mat with you which we're

1039
00:48:13,257 --> 00:48:15,152
on the opposite side of
a fight you're working

1040
00:48:15,152 --> 00:48:16,835
for Jamie I'm
working for Hannah.

1041
00:48:16,835 --> 00:48:18,739
Cool. Let's go to the mat.

1042
00:48:18,739 --> 00:48:22,275
And then tomorrow I want
to wake up, win or lose.

1043
00:48:22,275 --> 00:48:24,208
And I want to help you in the

1044
00:48:24,208 --> 00:48:27,257
18th. And that is, that
is what we have to be

1045
00:48:27,257 --> 00:48:29,625
about. And I am
like, I am begging.

1046
00:48:29,625 --> 00:48:32,907
This is like my mantra in
the morning when I wake up,

1047
00:48:32,907 --> 00:48:38,858
I am begging people to chill out
and just see the bigger picture.

1048
00:48:38,858 --> 00:48:40,438
We will fight today.

1049
00:48:40,438 --> 00:48:42,239
I am counting on you tomorrow.

1050
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,358
That's not a future thing.

1051
00:48:44,358 --> 00:48:47,539
Several years down the road,
that's literally tomorrow.

1052
00:48:47,539 --> 00:48:51,318
And we have to find a way to
just be humans with each other

1053
00:48:51,318 --> 00:48:54,059
and hold that tension and
fight really viscerally

1054
00:48:54,059 --> 00:48:55,599
and still love each
other afterwards.

1055
00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:58,498
And if you want to look
at like, oh, we beat Ron,

1056
00:48:58,498 --> 00:49:00,739
or we beat Hannah,
or we beat Kelabe,

1057
00:49:00,739 --> 00:49:03,958
or we beat Jessica
Forsythe and that's it,

1058
00:49:03,958 --> 00:49:06,297
you are missing the forest
for the trees, man.

1059
00:49:06,297 --> 00:49:08,500
They are tapping
into something real

1060
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:11,599
and you have to recognize
that and appreciate that.

1061
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:13,579
Or I guess we can just
lose our democracy,

1062
00:49:13,579 --> 00:49:15,719
which is actually how
I feel about this.

1063
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,117
I think the downside
of not figuring out

1064
00:49:18,117 --> 00:49:19,280
how to do this well,

1065
00:49:20,297 --> 00:49:23,018
practicing fighting
with one another well,

1066
00:49:23,018 --> 00:49:26,139
is that we just don't have
a democracy afterwards.

1067
00:49:26,139 --> 00:49:27,710
For any of you that
have kids, it's like

1068
00:49:27,710 --> 00:49:28,739
having siblings, right?

1069
00:49:30,018 --> 00:49:32,719
They're not always
on the same page.

1070
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:39,369
And we can practice politics
in a way where we can disagree

1071
00:49:39,369 --> 00:49:42,280
and not be disagreeable.

1072
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,719
And I think that's what we
should all aim towards, right?

1073
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,978
And, you know, I think we've,
you know, I think many of

1074
00:49:47,978 --> 00:49:51,387
us that are practitioners
have accomplished that, not

1075
00:49:51,387 --> 00:49:54,498
all, but I think many of
us have accomplished that.

1076
00:49:54,498 --> 00:49:58,445
And I think the electorate
needs to be able to

1077
00:49:58,445 --> 00:50:00,900
have these conversations.

1078
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:04,547
I mean, you know, like Tim
Burgess and Kshama Sawant were

1079
00:50:04,547 --> 00:50:08,353
elected on the same ballot by
the same voters, and they're

1080
00:50:08,353 --> 00:50:10,099
running citywide, right?

1081
00:50:10,099 --> 00:50:13,259
I mean, that means there are
people that voted for both.

1082
00:50:14,398 --> 00:50:16,739
And those are two very
competing visions.

1083
00:50:18,179 --> 00:50:20,679
And, you know, that's okay.

1084
00:50:20,679 --> 00:50:22,818
And we can have
those conversations.

1085
00:50:22,818 --> 00:50:24,318
Because I was one of them.

1086
00:50:24,318 --> 00:50:28,079
I was a Sawant and
Burgess voter.

1087
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:32,159
And you can have those tensions.

1088
00:50:32,159 --> 00:50:35,579
And I think those tensions
are healthy and they're good.

1089
00:50:35,579 --> 00:50:39,139
And these are good
things in democracy.

1090
00:50:40,259 --> 00:50:44,539
But her behavior after
she got elected,

1091
00:50:44,539 --> 00:50:46,297
I'm going to have some
disagreement with.

1092
00:50:47,858 --> 00:50:48,719
Remorseful.

1093
00:50:50,458 --> 00:50:52,059
I mean, the nice
thing about elections

1094
00:50:52,059 --> 00:50:54,018
is you can fix them afterwards.

1095
00:50:56,039 --> 00:50:57,418
Well, this is an
exciting night for me.

1096
00:50:57,418 --> 00:50:59,398
I've never met a Sawant
and Burgess voter.

1097
00:51:00,838 --> 00:51:04,838
Wow. So we've talked about
New York a little bit.

1098
00:51:04,838 --> 00:51:08,639
Now I actually have a
question about New York.

1099
00:51:08,639 --> 00:51:10,396
Who wrote this question?

1100
00:51:10,396 --> 00:51:11,818
Is Seattle New York?

1101
00:51:11,818 --> 00:51:12,907
Obviously not.

1102
00:51:12,907 --> 00:51:14,998
But to draw on that, thank you.

1103
00:51:14,998 --> 00:51:17,719
I wish you'd be
proud of who we are.

1104
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,079
Better transit.

1105
00:51:19,079 --> 00:51:21,898
But drawing on
that, Katie Wilson.

1106
00:51:21,898 --> 00:51:22,378
Better pizza.

1107
00:51:23,619 --> 00:51:25,159
We do have better pizza.

1108
00:51:25,159 --> 00:51:29,297
Katie Wilson just endorsed
Hannah Sabio-Howell and Ron Davis

1109
00:51:29,297 --> 00:51:33,599
right after Mamdani scored huge
political wins with his slate

1110
00:51:33,599 --> 00:51:35,858
when the insurgent
congressional candidates he

1111
00:51:35,858 --> 00:51:38,534
backed went three for three,
knocking off Democratic

1112
00:51:38,534 --> 00:51:40,858
incumbents in the New
York City primaries.

1113
00:51:40,858 --> 00:51:43,268
So how do you see
Wilson's decision to

1114
00:51:43,268 --> 00:51:46,431
intervene in these races,
and how important are the

1115
00:51:46,431 --> 00:51:49,338
outcomes of these races
for her political future?

1116
00:51:52,139 --> 00:51:53,759
Yeah, I can jump in.

1117
00:51:53,759 --> 00:51:56,818
I should disclose, too,
like I worked on her IE.

1118
00:51:56,818 --> 00:52:00,733
I have actually never met Katie
Wilson, so I have zero insight

1119
00:52:00,733 --> 00:52:02,500
into her psychology at all.

1120
00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:06,824
but I'm going to pretend I
do, which is to say, I think

1121
00:52:06,824 --> 00:52:11,510
part of how she got elected
is without any real major

1122
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:16,217
special interests making
her campaign happen.

1123
00:52:16,217 --> 00:52:20,503
And because she got elected
without them, I think

1124
00:52:20,503 --> 00:52:23,677
rightly she doesn't
owe them anything.

1125
00:52:23,677 --> 00:52:26,527
And so to me, this
isn't that surprising.

1126
00:52:26,527 --> 00:52:28,572
I understand the comparison to

1127
00:52:28,572 --> 00:52:29,202
New York.

1128
00:52:29,202 --> 00:52:31,864
You'd have to ask her if
that was like the main

1129
00:52:31,864 --> 00:52:35,579
leading factor, certainly like
post hoc, ergo propter hoc,

1130
00:52:35,579 --> 00:52:39,072
like it happened after, so
therefore it was because of it.

1131
00:52:39,072 --> 00:52:44,152
But ultimately what I think this
is about is she sees in those

1132
00:52:44,152 --> 00:52:50,918
two candidates a similarity to
her of people who are running

1133
00:52:50,918 --> 00:52:54,777
righteous progressive
challenges to incumbents

1134
00:52:54,777 --> 00:52:58,358
do not have the support of
any of the kind of main

1135
00:52:58,358 --> 00:53:01,063
institutional progressive
establishment forces

1136
00:53:01,063 --> 00:53:03,579
that also didn't support
her and I think there's

1137
00:53:03,579 --> 00:53:06,668
a little bit of like I see in
you a little bit of myself and

1138
00:53:06,668 --> 00:53:10,248
I want to support that person
and lover or hater like

1139
00:53:10,248 --> 00:53:12,318
that's her psychology.

1140
00:53:12,318 --> 00:53:15,947
I think there's a I think
there's like a really positive

1141
00:53:15,947 --> 00:53:20,661
thing to that which is like
real tough change does require

1142
00:53:20,661 --> 00:53:25,018
a little bit of tension
with the status quo.

1143
00:53:25,018 --> 00:53:28,527
Like if it were easy to
get big stuff done uh it

1144
00:53:28,527 --> 00:53:32,699
would have happened already
and you're necessarily

1145
00:53:32,699 --> 00:53:36,041
going to ruffle some feathers
with with establishment

1146
00:53:36,041 --> 00:53:39,309
players whenever you try to
do something meaningful and

1147
00:53:39,309 --> 00:53:41,813
so I think we could use a
little bit more of like

1148
00:53:41,813 --> 00:53:44,748
a you guys didn't help
me so I don't owe you

1149
00:53:44,748 --> 00:53:49,443
anything mentality next
time maybe you'll help her

1150
00:53:49,443 --> 00:53:52,954
but I'll be more crass I
think she was getting too

1151
00:53:52,954 --> 00:53:55,347
much from her base for
not weighing in and I

1152
00:53:55,347 --> 00:53:56,920
think she was responding to

1153
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:01,391
the people that got her there
which is fair I mean you know we

1154
00:54:01,391 --> 00:54:04,768
all have our constituencies
and And I think she was

1155
00:54:04,768 --> 00:54:06,498
responding to hers.

1156
00:54:06,498 --> 00:54:11,030
I'll also say that, you know,
if you have, you know, the big

1157
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:15,371
brass ones to go up against
the Senate majority leader,

1158
00:54:15,371 --> 00:54:17,259
he better win, you know.

1159
00:54:17,259 --> 00:54:20,358
And so we'll see because
he's going to win that race.

1160
00:54:22,398 --> 00:54:25,382
Now, as a follow up to both of
you, I mean, what does it mean

1161
00:54:25,382 --> 00:54:28,746
specifically for Mayor Wilson's
political future based on the

1162
00:54:28,746 --> 00:54:30,398
outcome of some of these races?

1163
00:54:30,398 --> 00:54:32,358
How much do you think
those are tied?

1164
00:54:32,358 --> 00:54:37,719
I think she'll be judged on
what she does for the city.

1165
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,358
And frankly, I'm
rooting for her.

1166
00:54:39,358 --> 00:54:40,199
I live in Seattle.

1167
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,619
I have a house in Seattle.

1168
00:54:43,619 --> 00:54:45,777
My kids are in
school in Seattle.

1169
00:54:45,777 --> 00:54:47,719
I want her to do well.

1170
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,518
I want every mayor of
Seattle to do well,

1171
00:54:49,518 --> 00:54:52,239
whether or not I think that
they should be there or not.

1172
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,458
And I'm rooting for her.

1173
00:54:54,458 --> 00:54:57,898
and for the next three
years, I'm going to do what

1174
00:54:57,898 --> 00:55:01,559
I can to support her and
then I'll judge her then.

1175
00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:04,199
If she does a fantastic
job, I'll be like, well,

1176
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:06,358
I'm not going to take on
a challenger against you

1177
00:55:06,358 --> 00:55:08,458
because you made
Seattle a better place.

1178
00:55:08,458 --> 00:55:11,338
And ultimately,
if she does that,

1179
00:55:11,338 --> 00:55:12,199
and I hope she does,

1180
00:55:13,498 --> 00:55:16,599
then she should be reelected
with 100% of the vote.

1181
00:55:17,838 --> 00:55:21,219
Yeah, I think I agree with
that to a certain extent.

1182
00:55:21,219 --> 00:55:24,351
I mean, part of the subtext
here is like an implicit

1183
00:55:24,351 --> 00:55:27,856
threat that if you make an
endorsement in these races and

1184
00:55:27,856 --> 00:55:31,585
then you lose, that whether
it's the Senate majority leader

1185
00:55:31,585 --> 00:55:35,016
or Gerry Pollet or anyone
else, that they're going to

1186
00:55:35,016 --> 00:55:36,880
punish you for that decision.

1187
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,597
I think in every accusation
like that, there's also a

1188
00:55:40,597 --> 00:55:44,822
confession of a kind of politics
that's very transactional

1189
00:55:44,822 --> 00:55:48,878
and very personal, and for me,
very dark and unfortunate.

1190
00:55:48,878 --> 00:55:51,998
Like, I don't think you as
a Senate majority leader or

1191
00:55:51,998 --> 00:55:55,119
as a state representative or
as a state senator of any

1192
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:58,097
kind, like leave Pedersen
out of it in particular.

1193
00:55:58,099 --> 00:56:02,315
Like, I think punishing your
political opponents is a

1194
00:56:02,315 --> 00:56:06,719
like, it's just bad for me,
bad politics, bad democracy.

1195
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,125
you are elected by the
people of Seattle to make

1196
00:56:09,125 --> 00:56:10,358
Seattle a better place.

1197
00:56:10,358 --> 00:56:13,313
If you're feuding with the
mayor of Seattle because you

1198
00:56:13,313 --> 00:56:16,311
didn't like how she endorsed,
like that is a transactional,

1199
00:56:16,311 --> 00:56:19,038
personal, negative politics
that I just don't agree with.

1200
00:56:19,039 --> 00:56:20,498
It may be true.

1201
00:56:20,498 --> 00:56:21,958
It probably is true.

1202
00:56:21,958 --> 00:56:23,659
Is that true on the
reverse, though?

1203
00:56:23,659 --> 00:56:24,777
I mean, you know.

1204
00:56:24,777 --> 00:56:26,159
Is she punishing?

1205
00:56:26,159 --> 00:56:27,398
I mean, this goes
both ways here.

1206
00:56:27,398 --> 00:56:27,858
But I don't know.

1207
00:56:27,858 --> 00:56:28,559
Is the mayor?

1208
00:56:29,559 --> 00:56:30,757
But let me give you
an example then.

1209
00:56:30,759 --> 00:56:32,378
I mean, if you want to go there.

1210
00:56:32,378 --> 00:56:36,081
Like, Mayor Wilson was
actively pushing for a policy

1211
00:56:36,081 --> 00:56:39,784
championed by the Master
Builders Association that

1212
00:56:39,784 --> 00:56:43,739
donated hundreds of thousands
of dollars to oppose her.

1213
00:56:43,739 --> 00:56:45,846
And yet she was still
doing that because she

1214
00:56:45,846 --> 00:56:46,898
thought it was right.

1215
00:56:46,898 --> 00:56:49,858
Now, it caught flack with her
base and it might be dead.

1216
00:56:49,858 --> 00:56:54,297
But my point is, clearly not
a transactional politician.

1217
00:56:54,297 --> 00:56:56,748
Otherwise she would have
said, oh, guys that just

1218
00:56:56,748 --> 00:56:59,139
spent hundreds of thousand
dollars against me,

1219
00:56:59,139 --> 00:57:00,742
click, leave me alone, right?

1220
00:57:00,742 --> 00:57:02,731
So I think there's
a, I'm just going to

1221
00:57:02,731 --> 00:57:05,369
push back on that talking
point because I think

1222
00:57:05,369 --> 00:57:07,947
there is a better politics
we can aspire to.

1223
00:57:07,947 --> 00:57:09,739
And if you're admitting to the

1224
00:57:09,739 --> 00:57:14,692
idea that I will actively punish
the city of Seattle for the

1225
00:57:14,692 --> 00:57:18,041
mayor's decision to endorse
against me, that is a

1226
00:57:18,041 --> 00:57:20,322
confession. I don't think
that's what Pedersen's

1227
00:57:20,322 --> 00:57:21,192
saying, by the way.

1228
00:57:21,192 --> 00:57:22,898
I think he's better than that.

1229
00:57:22,898 --> 00:57:24,643
I hope he's better than that.

1230
00:57:24,643 --> 00:57:27,257
But I would find that
to be an objectionable

1231
00:57:27,259 --> 00:57:28,398
style of politics.

1232
00:57:28,398 --> 00:57:30,675
How do you punish
your own electorate?

1233
00:57:30,675 --> 00:57:31,885
That makes no sense.

1234
00:57:31,885 --> 00:57:34,507
But that being said
you know to take

1235
00:57:34,507 --> 00:57:39,498
personalities out of politics
is impossible I mean how do

1236
00:57:39,498 --> 00:57:42,297
you take people out of
politics but we just we I

1237
00:57:42,297 --> 00:57:45,833
just went on a whole tirade
about how we need to fight

1238
00:57:45,833 --> 00:57:49,478
hard and go to the mat
together and then wake up in

1239
00:57:49,478 --> 00:57:53,012
the morning and say I will
knock doors with you in

1240
00:57:53,012 --> 00:57:56,291
the 18th LD or in the
17th LD or the 14th LD.

1241
00:57:56,291 --> 00:57:58,994
The difference is I mean that.

1242
00:57:58,994 --> 00:58:01,047
I genuinely mean that.

1243
00:58:01,047 --> 00:58:04,811
And I will have zero doubt
in my mind if Pedersen

1244
00:58:04,811 --> 00:58:07,880
is reelected that I will
go, not that he would

1245
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,346
ever ask me, and help him
with whatever progressive

1246
00:58:11,346 --> 00:58:12,760
policy he's pushing.

1247
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,331
To me, it's a righteous,

1248
00:58:14,331 --> 00:58:18,900
important fight that we do
because that's democracy baby.

1249
00:58:18,900 --> 00:58:20,583
Like it's all good.

1250
00:58:20,583 --> 00:58:23,739
And I just I'm asking,
I'm begging as

1251
00:58:23,739 --> 00:58:28,797
a person with no power
that we aspire to that.

1252
00:58:36,619 --> 00:58:38,447
No, no, apologies needed.

1253
00:58:38,447 --> 00:58:39,862
That was beautiful.

1254
00:58:39,862 --> 00:58:42,938
Moving us along though,
so we know that we've

1255
00:58:42,938 --> 00:58:45,577
talked a little bit about this
matter, but persistent primaries

1256
00:58:45,577 --> 00:58:49,161
can prompt sitting lawmakers
lawmakers to move left, signal

1257
00:58:49,161 --> 00:58:53,797
more boldly, or double down on
pragmatism to keep coalitions

1258
00:58:53,797 --> 00:58:55,639
together and pass legislation.

1259
00:58:55,639 --> 00:58:59,050
And Washington's near
supermajority raises the stakes

1260
00:58:59,050 --> 00:59:00,938
for internal caucus strategy.

1261
00:59:00,938 --> 00:59:05,005
Now if challengers keep gaining
traction, how do you think

1262
00:59:05,005 --> 00:59:08,346
that will change the behavior
of sitting Democratic

1263
00:59:08,346 --> 00:59:10,878
legislators in Olympia
during next session?

1264
00:59:12,179 --> 00:59:15,878
me first okay um I would
say I think it could

1265
00:59:15,878 --> 00:59:19,998
be a real sea change in
attitude and this is also

1266
00:59:19,998 --> 00:59:24,255
kind of how I felt a little bit
about Katie in general and now

1267
00:59:24,255 --> 00:59:28,260
the I will admit uh the jury's
still out on the success of

1268
00:59:28,260 --> 00:59:32,539
that right like it's been a
somewhat rocky first six months

1269
00:59:32,539 --> 00:59:36,480
but the politics that that
Mayor Harrell presented

1270
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,237
I'm not even really blaming
him for but it's based

1271
00:59:40,239 --> 00:59:43,226
in this idea of if you
satisfy the political

1272
00:59:43,226 --> 00:59:46,880
stakeholders you've done
enough to win re-election

1273
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,891
I've always not quite
believed that and I think

1274
00:59:49,891 --> 00:59:52,978
what Katie was calling on
is like doesn't matter

1275
00:59:52,978 --> 00:59:56,105
if you've answered the
phone call at midnight and

1276
00:59:56,105 --> 00:59:58,853
done what these individual
interest groups want

1277
00:59:58,853 --> 01:00:01,119
you to do, you actually
have to deliver something

1278
01:00:01,119 --> 01:00:04,027
meaningful that voters
want you to do.

1279
01:00:04,027 --> 01:00:07,117
I think that's pretty
much the same basis

1280
01:00:07,119 --> 01:00:10,275
as the challengers in general
because it kind of calls

1281
01:00:10,275 --> 01:00:13,527
the question on this whole
house of cards, this whole

1282
01:00:13,527 --> 01:00:16,478
kind of fragile ecosystem
that says as long as

1283
01:00:16,478 --> 01:00:21,556
as you ultimately answer the
phone call and vote the right

1284
01:00:21,556 --> 01:00:25,318
way when the whip cracks,
you will be protected.

1285
01:00:25,318 --> 01:00:29,498
If that's no longer true,
it does change behavior.

1286
01:00:29,498 --> 01:00:30,699
I think, of course, it does.

1287
01:00:30,699 --> 01:00:32,139
And it changes
people's calculus.

1288
01:00:33,579 --> 01:00:35,059
We can all disagree.

1289
01:00:35,059 --> 01:00:37,338
I would say probably
for the better.

1290
01:00:37,338 --> 01:00:40,431
Like if you are if you feel
fundamentally accountable

1291
01:00:40,431 --> 01:00:43,592
more towards outcomes and
less towards whether you've

1292
01:00:43,592 --> 01:00:46,547
satisfied interest groups,
I think that is a better

1293
01:00:46,547 --> 01:00:48,056
way for democracy to work.

1294
01:00:49,119 --> 01:00:52,498
And that is the question I think
that the challengers represent.

1295
01:00:52,498 --> 01:00:53,818
And it's so hard.

1296
01:00:53,818 --> 01:00:56,059
I mean, look, I really get it.

1297
01:00:56,059 --> 01:01:01,650
Like, I think politics is the
art of holding tension between

1298
01:01:01,650 --> 01:01:03,998
what is and what could be.

1299
01:01:03,998 --> 01:01:07,594
And part of what we're feeling
right now is, like, we want

1300
01:01:07,594 --> 01:01:10,960
to hold on to this status
quo because we're so fearful

1301
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,719
of what could come after it.

1302
01:01:12,719 --> 01:01:16,791
And my point is, my belief is,
like, the harder you hold, the

1303
01:01:16,791 --> 01:01:21,027
tighter you grip, the more blood
drains from your fingers and

1304
01:01:21,027 --> 01:01:22,940
the more it might just slip.

1305
01:01:22,940 --> 01:01:28,068
right and ultimately I
think there's just a better

1306
01:01:28,068 --> 01:01:33,199
balance of ambition and um
and just and and feeling

1307
01:01:33,199 --> 01:01:35,581
like we've done enough
and and so I I do really

1308
01:01:35,581 --> 01:01:38,159
believe that like some
of these challengers not

1309
01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:41,222
all of them even need to win but
a few of them and frankly maybe

1310
01:01:41,222 --> 01:01:43,773
we've already actually
seen the impact of this.

1311
01:01:43,773 --> 01:01:45,492
Like I would argue that some of

1312
01:01:45,492 --> 01:01:48,643
these legislators in the
legislative session already

1313
01:01:48,643 --> 01:01:51,577
reacted to the concept, to
the potential of getting

1314
01:01:51,579 --> 01:01:52,594
a challenger.

1315
01:01:52,594 --> 01:01:54,797
Hot take, would Jamie Pedersen

1316
01:01:54,797 --> 01:01:58,552
ultimately have voted against
the estate tax if he wasn't

1317
01:01:58,552 --> 01:02:00,527
fearful of getting a challenger?

1318
01:02:00,527 --> 01:02:03,172
You tell me, I don't
know, I'm not actually

1319
01:02:03,172 --> 01:02:03,969
asking you.

1320
01:02:03,969 --> 01:02:05,005
The point is...

1321
01:02:05,005 --> 01:02:06,121
How would I know?

1322
01:02:06,121 --> 01:02:07,010
I'm not I'm not really

1323
01:02:07,010 --> 01:02:07,559
trying to go there.

1324
01:02:07,559 --> 01:02:10,349
My point is just to
say, I think people are

1325
01:02:10,349 --> 01:02:12,797
already reacting to
this reality of like,

1326
01:02:12,797 --> 01:02:15,318
oh, I need to like
step up my game.

1327
01:02:15,318 --> 01:02:17,619
Something I heard in the Seattle
Times article, for example,

1328
01:02:17,619 --> 01:02:20,539
is like, I'm reacquainting
myself with the district.

1329
01:02:20,539 --> 01:02:22,139
Like, hell yeah, dude.

1330
01:02:22,139 --> 01:02:23,277
Like, you got to
go knock on doors.

1331
01:02:23,277 --> 01:02:25,297
That's great, whether
you win or lose.

1332
01:02:25,297 --> 01:02:28,179
Like, a lot of my friends
support Pedersen,

1333
01:02:28,179 --> 01:02:30,277
not jabbing at that at all.

1334
01:02:30,277 --> 01:02:34,297
But like, I think it's
awesome that you've got to go

1335
01:02:34,297 --> 01:02:35,639
run a real campaign.

1336
01:02:35,639 --> 01:02:38,318
My friend Dean gets to
make a shitload of money.

1337
01:02:38,318 --> 01:02:39,378
Everyone wins, right?

1338
01:02:40,639 --> 01:02:43,159
Like, no one loses.

1339
01:02:44,418 --> 01:02:45,559
Consultants for president.

1340
01:02:45,559 --> 01:02:48,541
No, I mean, there's a
lot of things that you

1341
01:02:48,541 --> 01:02:50,159
said that I agree with.

1342
01:02:50,159 --> 01:02:52,998
I mean, the satisfying
interest group thing.

1343
01:02:52,998 --> 01:02:58,418
I mean, that's why Greg Nickels
lost a generation ago, right?

1344
01:02:58,418 --> 01:03:00,623
I mean, you know, these
are dynamics that have

1345
01:03:00,623 --> 01:03:01,898
presented itself before.

1346
01:03:03,739 --> 01:03:07,818
And, you know, if you think
about these politics, I

1347
01:03:07,818 --> 01:03:12,190
mean, I think that there's a
lot of these races that are

1348
01:03:12,190 --> 01:03:14,619
moderates versus Democrats.

1349
01:03:14,619 --> 01:03:18,389
I mean, clearly that dynamics
playing out in 43rd and

1350
01:03:18,389 --> 01:03:20,018
in the Amy Walen race.

1351
01:03:20,018 --> 01:03:23,085
But there are other races
where there's other things

1352
01:03:23,085 --> 01:03:26,155
and dynamics at play, like
the Tarra Simmons, which is

1353
01:03:26,155 --> 01:03:27,898
about her personal behavior.

1354
01:03:27,898 --> 01:03:30,806
And, you know, and I
think that these are fair

1355
01:03:30,806 --> 01:03:32,380
conversations to have.

1356
01:03:32,380 --> 01:03:36,119
I mean, she has an amazing
personal story about how she

1357
01:03:36,119 --> 01:03:40,608
overcame her personal situation
and then got to the legislature

1358
01:03:40,608 --> 01:03:44,597
and kind of got to bed on her
personal side of the equation.

1359
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:46,699
Not on the legislative side,
but the personal side.

1360
01:03:46,699 --> 01:03:50,331
And, you know, and then you have
Melanie Morgan down in Pierce

1361
01:03:50,331 --> 01:03:53,748
County where she has a 98
percent voting record with labor

1362
01:03:53,748 --> 01:03:55,458
and they didn't endorse her.

1363
01:03:55,458 --> 01:03:58,958
And so it's like, you know,
you have these these other

1364
01:03:58,958 --> 01:04:02,777
situations that aren't neatly
described as progressive

1365
01:04:02,777 --> 01:04:06,197
versus versus moderate
that are also interesting.

1366
01:04:06,199 --> 01:04:08,518
The David Hackney
situation is interesting.

1367
01:04:08,518 --> 01:04:11,259
The Lauren Davis
race is interesting.

1368
01:04:11,259 --> 01:04:16,092
And so these are things that are
not neatly carved up into left

1369
01:04:16,092 --> 01:04:21,018
versus moderate, that dynamic
that we love to put things into.

1370
01:04:23,619 --> 01:04:27,079
We talked a little bit about
endorsing organizations

1371
01:04:27,079 --> 01:04:30,079
like unions, like business
and other funders.

1372
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:32,588
How do you see business,
labor and other funders

1373
01:04:32,588 --> 01:04:35,599
deciding between incumbents
and between incumbents and

1374
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:37,420
challengers in Washington state?

1375
01:04:37,420 --> 01:04:39,893
And what do you think
those choices indicate

1376
01:04:39,893 --> 01:04:41,498
about the Democratic Party?

1377
01:04:43,559 --> 01:04:46,713
I think the business
community is lost in a lot

1378
01:04:46,713 --> 01:04:50,280
of ways because, you know,
historically they would

1379
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,438
gravitate to the Republicans.

1380
01:04:52,438 --> 01:04:55,099
A lot of more
Republicans personally.

1381
01:04:55,099 --> 01:04:59,681
And they're trying to figure out
a way to be relevant in this

1382
01:04:59,681 --> 01:05:03,976
one-party state that they're
now in and and I think we

1383
01:05:03,976 --> 01:05:08,719
we act like oh Washington
state's been blue and you know

1384
01:05:08,719 --> 01:05:12,639
and because we've been we won
the presidential race here since

1385
01:05:12,639 --> 01:05:16,509
you know since 1988 right
But in the legislative level,

1386
01:05:16,509 --> 01:05:20,023
they have been relevant for
a long time, and they've had

1387
01:05:20,023 --> 01:05:23,539
the state senate off and on
until about eight years ago.

1388
01:05:23,539 --> 01:05:29,099
Right. And so so they've had
power and they haven't really

1389
01:05:29,099 --> 01:05:34,659
figured out a way to equate to
this new normative reality.

1390
01:05:34,659 --> 01:05:38,358
And, you know, where they'll
fund Republican challengers

1391
01:05:38,358 --> 01:05:42,056
against Democrats that vote
with them more often than not.

1392
01:05:42,059 --> 01:05:44,742
And so then that makes
Democrats even less

1393
01:05:44,742 --> 01:05:46,197
likely to be with them.

1394
01:05:46,199 --> 01:05:49,739
So they're really kind of
lost in a lot of ways.

1395
01:05:49,739 --> 01:05:53,938
And, you know, and labor
has their own challenges.

1396
01:05:53,938 --> 01:05:57,487
It's like, you know, like
how they, you know, in the

1397
01:05:57,487 --> 01:06:00,715
mayor's race, you know,
is that Katie Wilson

1398
01:06:00,715 --> 01:06:04,059
kind of came out of those
types of movements,

1399
01:06:04,059 --> 01:06:07,157
although not directly labor,
did not get labor union

1400
01:06:07,157 --> 01:06:09,056
endorsements right off the bat.

1401
01:06:09,059 --> 01:06:12,398
So it's like, how do they
acquaint, you know, like the

1402
01:06:12,398 --> 01:06:15,965
politics are changing, but
the interest groups are kind

1403
01:06:15,965 --> 01:06:19,306
of in a lot of ways locked
into like old school D versus

1404
01:06:19,306 --> 01:06:22,873
R fights because that's how
they're kind of oriented and

1405
01:06:22,873 --> 01:06:24,619
they need to change as well.

1406
01:06:25,619 --> 01:06:27,300
Yeah, I think that's spot on.

1407
01:06:27,300 --> 01:06:30,523
I mean, and part of this too
is like Washington's in this

1408
01:06:30,523 --> 01:06:33,675
weird spot where a lot of the
other places we're kind of

1409
01:06:33,675 --> 01:06:36,967
talking about, like New York
has been solidly a trifecta

1410
01:06:36,967 --> 01:06:40,400
state for I don't know how long,
like decades at this point.

1411
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,400
Washington State I mean we had
a Republican Senate majority

1412
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,824
in 2017 so it's not that long
for us to go I mean it's kind of

1413
01:06:46,824 --> 01:06:51,257
quite remarkable like to go so
dramatically from we are a split

1414
01:06:51,259 --> 01:06:54,327
chamber Republican Democrat
chamber to suddenly now

1415
01:06:54,327 --> 01:06:56,918
we're like basically a
super majority and the

1416
01:06:56,918 --> 01:06:59,588
fights we had not so long
ago like somebody can

1417
01:06:59,588 --> 01:07:02,538
reasonably have started
their career thinking of

1418
01:07:02,539 --> 01:07:04,657
themselves in the dynamic
of I'm going to be

1419
01:07:04,657 --> 01:07:06,777
battling Republicans
to now at this point,

1420
01:07:06,777 --> 01:07:08,981
like those guys have no
power and we can ignore

1421
01:07:08,981 --> 01:07:09,735
them entirely.

1422
01:07:09,735 --> 01:07:11,358
That's a, that's
actually kind of

1423
01:07:11,358 --> 01:07:13,697
a jarring, uh, I think a
lot of the incumbents are

1424
01:07:13,697 --> 01:07:15,918
caught in that actually,
where they're like,

1425
01:07:15,918 --> 01:07:18,246
dude, what do you, what
do you want from me?

1426
01:07:18,246 --> 01:07:19,840
Like I did all this cool stuff

1427
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,380
that would have never been
possible when I first

1428
01:07:22,380 --> 01:07:23,052
got elected.

1429
01:07:23,052 --> 01:07:24,579
And then it's like, yeah, bro.

1430
01:07:24,579 --> 01:07:26,972
But like you got elected and
when they're Republicans,

1431
01:07:26,972 --> 01:07:27,739
we're way past that.

1432
01:07:27,739 --> 01:07:32,259
I mean, Amy Walen's district,
28% Republican vote.

1433
01:07:32,259 --> 01:07:35,079
Vancouver, Washington,
38% Republican vote.

1434
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:38,277
I mean, it's just like,
it's kind of crazy.

1435
01:07:38,277 --> 01:07:40,297
It's been a really
dramatic shift,

1436
01:07:40,297 --> 01:07:42,643
and I think a lot of
people have felt like the

1437
01:07:42,643 --> 01:07:45,123
ground moving under them,
and I have some empathy

1438
01:07:45,123 --> 01:07:47,748
to that of like, oh my
God, I don't really know

1439
01:07:47,748 --> 01:07:49,418
where to put my next foot.

1440
01:07:49,418 --> 01:07:51,217
You know, you brought up a
really interesting point

1441
01:07:51,219 --> 01:07:52,498
that we're not
talking about today,

1442
01:07:52,498 --> 01:07:55,097
because it's really not,
it is still D versus D,

1443
01:07:55,099 --> 01:07:56,998
it's just not challenger
versus incumbent.

1444
01:07:58,539 --> 01:08:00,259
I am seeing the
business community

1445
01:08:00,259 --> 01:08:04,719
actually spending a lot of money
in open seats for Democrats,

1446
01:08:04,719 --> 01:08:06,759
whether it's in the 24th
legislative district

1447
01:08:06,759 --> 01:08:09,199
or the 42nd
legislative district,

1448
01:08:09,199 --> 01:08:14,297
where you are seeing the sort
of moderate business community

1449
01:08:14,297 --> 01:08:18,698
playing in a significant
way for these open seats.

1450
01:08:18,698 --> 01:08:22,457
And I kind of am a
little surprised by

1451
01:08:22,457 --> 01:08:24,439
somebody smarter than
me can tell me why,

1452
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:28,399
but I don't really see
a progressive vehicle

1453
01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:29,716
on the opposite side of that.

1454
01:08:29,719 --> 01:08:33,654
I sort of expected that to be,
whether it's New Direction

1455
01:08:33,654 --> 01:08:35,179
or a different pack or
something like that,

1456
01:08:35,179 --> 01:08:36,957
that would typically
play that role.

1457
01:08:36,957 --> 01:08:38,756
We're kind of not seeing that.

1458
01:08:38,759 --> 01:08:44,500
What it reminds me of, sadly,
is like 2023 in Seattle, where

1459
01:08:44,500 --> 01:08:49,917
we had more moderate candidates
running that had pretty

1460
01:08:49,917 --> 01:08:53,685
significant spending from real
estate, master builders, other

1461
01:08:53,685 --> 01:08:56,621
sort of those set of business
community interests.

1462
01:08:56,621 --> 01:08:58,279
And labor, again, this sounds

1463
01:08:58,279 --> 01:09:00,935
like criticism, but it's
really just me stating

1464
01:09:00,939 --> 01:09:03,578
reality like took a
pass on that year.

1465
01:09:03,578 --> 01:09:06,219
I think there was
maybe a total of like

1466
01:09:06,219 --> 01:09:09,654
ten thousand dollars of
spending across all seven

1467
01:09:09,654 --> 01:09:11,212
district-wide races.

1468
01:09:11,212 --> 01:09:12,694
They sort of took a pass on

1469
01:09:12,694 --> 01:09:15,279
that and then we saw
progressives like really

1470
01:09:15,279 --> 01:09:16,180
lose in a big way.

1471
01:09:16,180 --> 01:09:17,979
I'm not trying to
make Seattle the

1472
01:09:17,979 --> 01:09:21,274
center of the universe and
like apply that to everywhere

1473
01:09:21,274 --> 01:09:23,979
but I kind of, it's just
a it's not a contrast

1474
01:09:23,979 --> 01:09:27,435
I'm just building on your point
about like whether the business

1475
01:09:27,435 --> 01:09:29,198
community is lost in the forest.

1476
01:09:29,198 --> 01:09:32,715
They might just be like playing
the long game in a way that will

1477
01:09:32,715 --> 01:09:35,837
work out really well for them,
where they could run the table

1478
01:09:35,837 --> 01:09:38,747
on a bunch of legislative races
that no one's paying attention

1479
01:09:38,747 --> 01:09:41,377
to because they don't happen
to fall on the I-5 corridor.

1480
01:09:42,759 --> 01:09:43,957
Because the
progressive community,

1481
01:09:45,139 --> 01:09:46,738
including the progressive
establishment community,

1482
01:09:46,738 --> 01:09:49,658
is so focused on, I
don't know if I want

1483
01:09:49,658 --> 01:09:52,389
to blame my challengers,
but I think they're focused

1484
01:09:52,389 --> 01:09:54,532
on like millionaires tax,
defending against no

1485
01:09:54,532 --> 01:09:55,319
hate in Washington.

1486
01:09:55,319 --> 01:09:56,219
Well, Supreme Court.

1487
01:09:56,219 --> 01:09:57,037
Supreme Court.

1488
01:09:57,037 --> 01:09:59,555
Like there's a bunch of other
stuff that we care about

1489
01:10:00,917 --> 01:10:03,077
that I think we're just
like leaving a lot

1490
01:10:03,077 --> 01:10:04,219
of battles unfought.

1491
01:10:05,639 --> 01:10:06,779
I don't have a crystal ball.

1492
01:10:06,779 --> 01:10:07,957
Talk to me after the election.

1493
01:10:07,957 --> 01:10:11,984
But I do worry as a
progressive, like, that

1494
01:10:11,984 --> 01:10:14,399
feels like a bad dynamic.

1495
01:10:14,399 --> 01:10:15,947
But anyway, I mean, some
of these people are

1496
01:10:15,947 --> 01:10:16,720
people I work for, so.

1497
01:10:19,219 --> 01:10:21,283
Well, it is my job
to make Seattle the

1498
01:10:21,283 --> 01:10:22,658
center of the universe.

1499
01:10:23,738 --> 01:10:26,966
But, and I say that also knowing
that our local issues that

1500
01:10:26,966 --> 01:10:30,462
we're facing here from runaway
housing costs, zoning reform,

1501
01:10:30,462 --> 01:10:33,961
the millionaire's tax, policing,
public safety debates, how

1502
01:10:33,961 --> 01:10:37,591
we're responding to the crises
that the federal administration

1503
01:10:37,591 --> 01:10:40,617
has put us in, have animated
a lot of our recent primary

1504
01:10:40,617 --> 01:10:41,894
fights in Washington.

1505
01:10:41,899 --> 01:10:45,600
So which Washington-specific
or federal issues over the

1506
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,841
last few years are most
responsible for provoking

1507
01:10:48,841 --> 01:10:51,000
these intra-party challengers?

1508
01:10:52,377 --> 01:10:54,939
I think it's just a
lame response of the

1509
01:10:54,939 --> 01:10:56,859
National Democrats, right?

1510
01:10:56,859 --> 01:10:59,359
Like, they just suck.

1511
01:10:59,359 --> 01:11:00,179
You know?

1512
01:11:00,179 --> 01:11:01,859
They're awful.

1513
01:11:01,859 --> 01:11:04,770
I mean, has anybody been
proud of anything that's

1514
01:11:04,770 --> 01:11:08,037
come out of Chuck Schumer's
mouth in the last two years?

1515
01:11:08,037 --> 01:11:09,457
I haven't.

1516
01:11:09,457 --> 01:11:10,319
Hakeem Jeffries?

1517
01:11:10,319 --> 01:11:11,037
Any of them.

1518
01:11:12,099 --> 01:11:15,515
I've just gone home at night

1519
01:11:15,515 --> 01:11:18,078
and been like, what are
these people doing?

1520
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:20,497
Nothing.

1521
01:11:22,819 --> 01:11:25,127
Look, I know enough about the

1522
01:11:25,127 --> 01:11:27,219
legislative process to
know that they don't

1523
01:11:27,219 --> 01:11:30,738
have a lot of levers, but try.

1524
01:11:30,738 --> 01:11:32,118
You know?

1525
01:11:32,118 --> 01:11:33,037
I just don't...

1526
01:11:34,279 --> 01:11:35,939
They're not my heroes.

1527
01:11:37,698 --> 01:11:40,287
Yeah, I would, I actually
totally agree with

1528
01:11:40,287 --> 01:11:41,478
what you're saying.

1529
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,332
I would probably add to
that, like, a little generic

1530
01:11:44,332 --> 01:11:47,948
affordability in general,
but I'll specifically target

1531
01:11:47,948 --> 01:11:52,019
housing and childcare to me,
feel like issues that I'm

1532
01:11:52,019 --> 01:11:56,139
pretty depressed about as
a political operative.

1533
01:11:56,139 --> 01:11:58,697
Like, we have, this is
something I find really hard

1534
01:11:58,697 --> 01:12:02,055
for incumbents to talk
about, like you've delivered

1535
01:12:02,055 --> 01:12:05,921
hundreds of millions of
dollars for affordable

1536
01:12:05,921 --> 01:12:09,777
housing and yet my lived
experience yeah maybe I'm

1537
01:12:09,777 --> 01:12:13,613
just a whiny millennial but
like my lived experience

1538
01:12:13,613 --> 01:12:16,671
is my rent doubled in
that time and so it's

1539
01:12:16,671 --> 01:12:19,618
just a hard sell to me
to be like we did it

1540
01:12:19,618 --> 01:12:23,086
mission accomplished I
did the thing and I will

1541
01:12:23,086 --> 01:12:26,198
now a little bit more
seriously I would argue

1542
01:12:26,198 --> 01:12:29,546
like there's not been
enough of the conversation

1543
01:12:29,546 --> 01:12:32,648
focused on like what
makes housing cheaper and

1544
01:12:32,648 --> 01:12:35,573
faster to build like I
would actually argue

1545
01:12:35,573 --> 01:12:38,810
there's a missing like
we attacked this mainly

1546
01:12:38,810 --> 01:12:41,930
from a subsidy policy lens
and not enough from a

1547
01:12:41,930 --> 01:12:46,274
fundamental permitting reform,
building reform, environmental

1548
01:12:46,274 --> 01:12:47,618
review reform lens.

1549
01:12:47,618 --> 01:12:48,917
Maybe that's too nerdy.

1550
01:12:48,917 --> 01:12:50,457
But that's to me a big thing.

1551
01:12:50,457 --> 01:12:52,118
We have done a lot of
this to ourselves.

1552
01:12:52,118 --> 01:12:54,179
I mean, try to get a building
permit in the city of Seattle.

1553
01:12:54,179 --> 01:12:55,319
I've done it twice.

1554
01:12:55,319 --> 01:12:56,618
It sucks.

1555
01:12:56,618 --> 01:12:57,997
It takes years.

1556
01:12:57,997 --> 01:12:58,719
It's horrible.

1557
01:12:59,859 --> 01:13:04,296
And if you're building
something, that costs you money.

1558
01:13:04,296 --> 01:13:06,002
Right. I mean, like all of these

1559
01:13:06,002 --> 01:13:09,018
things, these progressive
reforms that we've done, and

1560
01:13:09,018 --> 01:13:12,162
they're all good things for
the environment, for whatever

1561
01:13:12,162 --> 01:13:13,895
cause that we champion them for.

1562
01:13:13,899 --> 01:13:17,377
But at the end of the day, they
end up adding to the cost.

1563
01:13:17,377 --> 01:13:19,658
And just be real about it.

1564
01:13:19,658 --> 01:13:20,837
Acknowledge it.

1565
01:13:20,837 --> 01:13:21,796
You know?

1566
01:13:21,796 --> 01:13:25,555
And at the end of the day,
some things we should

1567
01:13:25,555 --> 01:13:27,238
add for the cost for.

1568
01:13:27,238 --> 01:13:30,725
like we're giving people living
wage it's like well maybe maybe

1569
01:13:30,725 --> 01:13:34,086
restaurant prices are going to
rise because we're actually

1570
01:13:34,086 --> 01:13:36,555
paying people in the
back of the house

1571
01:13:36,555 --> 01:13:39,484
a living wage that's a good
thing in my opinion and

1572
01:13:39,484 --> 01:13:42,877
maybe you need to go out one
less time a week because of that

1573
01:13:42,877 --> 01:13:46,371
deal with it you know but
but at least be honest

1574
01:13:46,371 --> 01:13:49,676
about it so yeah I I think
I think housing is a

1575
01:13:49,679 --> 01:13:50,161
a big part.

1576
01:13:50,161 --> 01:13:51,822
The other one I would
say is childcare

1577
01:13:51,822 --> 01:13:53,001
for very similar reasons.

1578
01:13:53,001 --> 01:13:55,484
We've attacked childcare
from like a subsidy

1579
01:13:55,484 --> 01:13:58,755
lens of we're going to
expand, you know, working

1580
01:13:58,755 --> 01:14:02,439
connections, the program that
gives families, you know,

1581
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:04,564
subsidies for
childcare programs.

1582
01:14:04,564 --> 01:14:06,978
But fundamentally,
we've also like made

1583
01:14:06,979 --> 01:14:09,086
it a lot more expensive to
open a childcare center

1584
01:14:09,086 --> 01:14:10,269
in the state of Washington.

1585
01:14:10,269 --> 01:14:12,729
And I don't want to to get
too policy wonky about

1586
01:14:12,729 --> 01:14:16,256
it, but the point is, I think
those two issues in particular,

1587
01:14:16,259 --> 01:14:19,496
there are real critiques that
the status quo has done a bad

1588
01:14:19,496 --> 01:14:21,318
job of addressing those issues.

1589
01:14:21,319 --> 01:14:24,145
Maybe we've sacrificed
in some respects.

1590
01:14:24,145 --> 01:14:25,679
There's a tug and pull.

1591
01:14:25,679 --> 01:14:27,779
On one end, there's the quality

1592
01:14:27,779 --> 01:14:28,791
of the thing, right?

1593
01:14:28,791 --> 01:14:30,399
High quality early learning for

1594
01:14:30,399 --> 01:14:32,899
kids. On the other end,
there's the affordability

1595
01:14:32,899 --> 01:14:33,524
of the thing.

1596
01:14:33,524 --> 01:14:35,113
Maybe we've just
done a little bit

1597
01:14:35,113 --> 01:14:37,158
too much towards the
quality and not enough

1598
01:14:37,158 --> 01:14:38,617
towards the affordability.

1599
01:14:38,617 --> 01:14:40,439
Like I'm not a
candidate for office,

1600
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:43,274
but like, I just think there's
a fundamental problem when

1601
01:14:43,274 --> 01:14:45,327
you tell people I'm
passing a capital gains

1602
01:14:45,327 --> 01:14:47,988
tax, it's a quarter
million dollars a year.

1603
01:14:47,988 --> 01:14:50,872
And also by the way,
your childcare went

1604
01:14:50,872 --> 01:14:54,238
from, I wrote a report for
a candidate that was like

1605
01:14:54,238 --> 01:14:56,979
a child care plan and I
put in some numbers that

1606
01:14:56,979 --> 01:15:00,002
I had pulled from 2021 and
it said child care in the

1607
01:15:00,002 --> 01:15:03,899
city of Seattle costs $16,000 a
year and then the person I asked

1608
01:15:03,899 --> 01:15:06,867
to look at it was like hey
bro I can't file child

1609
01:15:06,867 --> 01:15:09,836
care for less than $50,000
a year in the city of

1610
01:15:09,837 --> 01:15:12,948
Seattle and I was like well
right so there's just a

1611
01:15:12,948 --> 01:15:16,055
problem here I think with
those issues and that's

1612
01:15:16,059 --> 01:15:17,448
that is feeling a lot of this.

1613
01:15:17,448 --> 01:15:19,073
I mean, you know,
what's the line?

1614
01:15:19,073 --> 01:15:20,639
It's like, you
know, you can have

1615
01:15:20,639 --> 01:15:23,372
something cheap, fast, or
good, and you get two of

1616
01:15:23,372 --> 01:15:26,041
the three, you know, and
you don't get all three.

1617
01:15:27,337 --> 01:15:28,805
Put that on a mailer.

1618
01:15:28,805 --> 01:15:32,265
Well, building us on this
point, you know, we've

1619
01:15:32,265 --> 01:15:35,390
talked a little bit about
how challengers are facing

1620
01:15:35,390 --> 01:15:37,613
barriers. They don't
have institutional ties

1621
01:15:37,613 --> 01:15:39,841
and connections to big
organizations yet.

1622
01:15:39,841 --> 01:15:41,787
They have lower
name recognition,

1623
01:15:41,787 --> 01:15:44,676
and that means often a
steeper fundraising hurdle.

1624
01:15:44,679 --> 01:15:48,078
Yet, we are seeing some of those
challengers leverage online

1625
01:15:48,078 --> 01:15:51,636
fundraising and lean into those
activist networks to close the

1626
01:15:51,636 --> 01:15:55,359
gaps. So practically speaking,
what barriers from fundraising,

1627
01:15:55,359 --> 01:15:58,279
endorsements, community
recognition, organizational

1628
01:15:58,279 --> 01:16:00,837
capacity are really
constraining challengers in

1629
01:16:00,837 --> 01:16:04,323
Washington and how have you
seen successful challengers

1630
01:16:04,323 --> 01:16:05,917
overcome those barriers?

1631
01:16:05,917 --> 01:16:07,943
So real quick I'm gonna
do something totally

1632
01:16:07,943 --> 01:16:10,827
inappropriate which is to
say we have ten minutes left

1633
01:16:10,827 --> 01:16:12,390
for this conversation.

1634
01:16:12,390 --> 01:16:14,359
That's a really great question.

1635
01:16:14,359 --> 01:16:16,542
I think maybe we could
ask the audience one

1636
01:16:16,542 --> 01:16:17,417
quick question.

1637
01:16:17,417 --> 01:16:18,582
Sorry this is totally messed up.

1638
01:16:18,582 --> 01:16:19,252
You didn't put that on my

1639
01:16:19,252 --> 01:16:20,796
paper. I didn't know we were
doing audience questions.

1640
01:16:21,939 --> 01:16:24,769
We could ask the audience one
question and then and then try

1641
01:16:24,769 --> 01:16:25,229
to close.

1642
01:16:25,229 --> 01:16:26,037
Oh I'd love that.

1643
01:16:26,037 --> 01:16:26,801
Okay, all right.

1644
01:16:26,801 --> 01:16:27,399
I'm so sorry.

1645
01:16:27,399 --> 01:16:29,738
Okay. I'm going with the
first hand that just went up

1646
01:16:29,738 --> 01:16:33,904
So going back to the last
thing you said, Steve, that

1647
01:16:33,904 --> 01:16:38,363
fallacy and bargain on the
supply side, which requires

1648
01:16:38,363 --> 01:16:42,627
that business continues to
supply more of the cost to

1649
01:16:42,627 --> 01:16:44,854
fund our social solutions.

1650
01:16:44,859 --> 01:16:49,430
And labor is complicit in
that because at the end of

1651
01:16:49,430 --> 01:16:53,787
the day, it's county and
city employees that are

1652
01:16:53,787 --> 01:16:56,399
benefiting, not employees.

1653
01:16:56,399 --> 01:16:58,139
How do you square that?

1654
01:17:00,259 --> 01:17:02,219
You're putting me on
the hot seat, man.

1655
01:17:02,219 --> 01:17:03,337
That's right.

1656
01:17:03,337 --> 01:17:05,136
That's what friends do.

1657
01:17:05,139 --> 01:17:05,939
I love it.

1658
01:17:05,939 --> 01:17:07,497
You said that earlier.

1659
01:17:07,497 --> 01:17:08,399
You're so right.

1660
01:17:08,399 --> 01:17:12,939
Look, I think we have to
understand our friends are

1661
01:17:12,939 --> 01:17:15,859
still people we negotiate with.

1662
01:17:15,859 --> 01:17:17,957
We don't just give them
everything they want.

1663
01:17:19,118 --> 01:17:21,099
That was the answer.

1664
01:17:21,099 --> 01:17:22,719
I know.

1665
01:17:22,719 --> 01:17:25,136
And as much as I love,
like, I love a lot of

1666
01:17:25,136 --> 01:17:28,439
these advocacy groups and
unions and organizations.

1667
01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:31,139
And yet, it's a negotiation.

1668
01:17:31,139 --> 01:17:35,095
And the fundamental thing that
we're negotiating towards is

1669
01:17:35,095 --> 01:17:36,957
better outcomes for people.

1670
01:17:36,957 --> 01:17:40,733
And we can't sacrifice at the
altar of a good deal for our

1671
01:17:40,733 --> 01:17:44,997
political partners an actual
product that is good for people.

1672
01:17:44,997 --> 01:17:45,778
That's a hot take.

1673
01:17:45,779 --> 01:17:48,359
It's probably why I'll
never be in elected office.

1674
01:17:48,359 --> 01:17:50,938
that's my genuine belief.

1675
01:17:50,939 --> 01:17:56,019
So I work for seven teachers
unions around the country.

1676
01:17:56,019 --> 01:17:59,877
And some of my less
progressive friends say,

1677
01:17:59,877 --> 01:18:01,377
you know, well, they
stand, you know,

1678
01:18:01,377 --> 01:18:03,337
they fight for bad teachers.

1679
01:18:03,337 --> 01:18:04,779
We all know who
the bad teacher is

1680
01:18:04,779 --> 01:18:06,018
and they're standing
up for them.

1681
01:18:06,019 --> 01:18:10,118
And like, well, that teacher
paid dues into the union,

1682
01:18:10,118 --> 01:18:13,318
you know, and they're entitled
to representation too,

1683
01:18:13,319 --> 01:18:15,095
you know, and you're
misunderstanding

1684
01:18:15,099 --> 01:18:17,417
misunderstanding what the
point of a labor union

1685
01:18:17,417 --> 01:18:19,676
is and an association and
you know they they need

1686
01:18:19,676 --> 01:18:23,170
to have somebody that has their
back you know with a lawyer

1687
01:18:23,170 --> 01:18:27,202
and and legally and and you have
to understand the role and you

1688
01:18:27,202 --> 01:18:31,657
could disagree with that bad
teacher quote-unquote um but but

1689
01:18:31,658 --> 01:18:35,390
it doesn't mean that that role
doesn't need to be played and

1690
01:18:35,390 --> 01:18:38,488
and you know and to understand
what everybody's role

1691
01:18:38,488 --> 01:18:39,555
is in the ecosystem.

1692
01:18:39,559 --> 01:18:40,819
And that's okay.

1693
01:18:42,238 --> 01:18:43,497
I'm going to take
another question.

1694
01:18:43,497 --> 01:18:45,337
I saw a hand here.

1695
01:18:45,337 --> 01:18:46,738
Thank you, gentlemen.

1696
01:18:47,779 --> 01:18:49,738
First of all, if you'd like
to feel a sense of welcome

1697
01:18:49,738 --> 01:18:53,618
to the caucus, anytime,
please do join us.

1698
01:18:53,618 --> 01:18:56,939
Speaking of the ecosystem, you
both give it your opinions

1699
01:18:56,939 --> 01:18:59,176
and to direct
candidates who say,

1700
01:18:59,176 --> 01:19:02,108
win races, and in my experience,
consultants are very

1701
01:19:02,108 --> 01:19:04,559
focused on winning or
losing in the battle.

1702
01:19:04,559 --> 01:19:09,029
So, like, what accountability or
responsibility do you feel were

1703
01:19:09,029 --> 01:19:13,260
your candidates' behaviors once
they actually are in office?

1704
01:19:13,260 --> 01:19:18,872
I think that's a fair
question, and it's something

1705
01:19:18,872 --> 01:19:22,078
I struggle with personally.

1706
01:19:23,457 --> 01:19:27,434
There are candidates that I
have not taken on because

1707
01:19:27,434 --> 01:19:30,778
they're too far away
from my personal views.

1708
01:19:30,779 --> 01:19:34,353
However if you do that too
much you don't have any

1709
01:19:34,353 --> 01:19:36,319
clients so um so you have to

1710
01:19:38,037 --> 01:19:42,823
you know you have to be careful
I mean you know like your firm

1711
01:19:42,823 --> 01:19:46,626
does Fetterman and MGP and
some people that are a little

1712
01:19:46,626 --> 01:19:48,774
different than your
seattle clients you

1713
01:19:48,774 --> 01:19:52,234
know and I've worked for
people that are a little out

1714
01:19:52,234 --> 01:19:56,819
of step with my personal views
and so so you know it's it's a

1715
01:19:56,819 --> 01:20:00,720
challenge you know it is
fundamentally a challenge

1716
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:04,078
and um you know like I I
don't work for anybody

1717
01:20:04,078 --> 01:20:07,153
that's anti-choice I don't
work for anybody that's

1718
01:20:07,153 --> 01:20:09,796
anti-gay um I have my
lines that I that I don't

1719
01:20:09,796 --> 01:20:14,712
cross um some things are
a little grayer and and

1720
01:20:14,712 --> 01:20:19,377
I I have to limit it to
that I I you know I I don't

1721
01:20:19,377 --> 01:20:22,819
work for anybody's anti-union
that's the other thing

1722
01:20:22,819 --> 01:20:25,417
and you can you can
view that as what under

1723
01:20:25,417 --> 01:20:30,898
the lens is what you will um but
um and I've not taken on people

1724
01:20:30,898 --> 01:20:34,448
a second time you know like
you He went in there and

1725
01:20:34,448 --> 01:20:35,259
did something bad.

1726
01:20:36,296 --> 01:20:38,979
I used to represent
David Sawyer in Olympia.

1727
01:20:38,979 --> 01:20:42,225
And then when he went down
there and did bad things,

1728
01:20:42,225 --> 01:20:43,537
I exited stage left.

1729
01:20:43,537 --> 01:20:44,319
You know, so.

1730
01:20:45,377 --> 01:20:47,377
Yeah, I think about
it pretty similarly.

1731
01:20:47,377 --> 01:20:48,399
I mean, you mentioned Fetterman.

1732
01:20:48,399 --> 01:20:52,011
That's an example of a
client we worked for when he

1733
01:20:52,011 --> 01:20:54,037
first ran as a progressive.

1734
01:20:54,037 --> 01:20:57,640
And then once he got into
elected office, I won't opine on

1735
01:20:57,640 --> 01:20:59,555
why, did not turn out that way.

1736
01:20:59,559 --> 01:21:01,318
And we dropped him as a client.

1737
01:21:01,319 --> 01:21:04,479
I think all of us struggle
with this exact question.

1738
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:08,337
For me, the through line
for my work is about,

1739
01:21:08,337 --> 01:21:10,979
it's my belief in a big
tent party, ultimately,

1740
01:21:10,979 --> 01:21:13,417
that I want to work
for the people

1741
01:21:13,417 --> 01:21:15,618
that I think are the
most representative

1742
01:21:15,618 --> 01:21:18,618
of the community that
they're running in.

1743
01:21:18,618 --> 01:21:21,014
That's the through line for
me and it's why I don't lose

1744
01:21:21,014 --> 01:21:22,618
any sleep over these races.

1745
01:21:22,618 --> 01:21:25,457
It doesn't mean I don't feel
any consternation over them.

1746
01:21:25,457 --> 01:21:28,653
I disagree virulently
with a lot of my clients

1747
01:21:28,653 --> 01:21:30,417
on politics all the time.

1748
01:21:30,417 --> 01:21:33,658
And yet the through line for
me is I feel like they are the

1749
01:21:33,658 --> 01:21:37,319
best representative of their
district that I can make happen.

1750
01:21:37,319 --> 01:21:40,733
If I am wrong, I am
happy to be wrong.

1751
01:21:40,733 --> 01:21:43,103
Right. If somebody
else can win, and

1752
01:21:43,103 --> 01:21:46,639
this is actually just, I'm just
bringing us back to the point.

1753
01:21:46,639 --> 01:21:50,158
I don't find it offensive
at all that somebody runs

1754
01:21:50,158 --> 01:21:54,100
against Marie Perez or Adam
Smith or Marilyn Strickland

1755
01:21:54,100 --> 01:21:57,706
or Chris Pappas or Maura
Sullivan, like Deb Haaland,

1756
01:21:57,706 --> 01:21:59,296
like all of my clients.

1757
01:21:59,296 --> 01:22:01,899
It's not offensive to me at all.

1758
01:22:01,899 --> 01:22:05,854
I think if you can win, if
you can better represent this

1759
01:22:05,854 --> 01:22:09,814
community, like I will, I
will literally, I will knock

1760
01:22:09,814 --> 01:22:13,773
on doors for you tomorrow,
the day you beat me, because

1761
01:22:13,773 --> 01:22:15,796
I want to win that district.

1762
01:22:15,796 --> 01:22:17,759
I'm doing what I think is right.

1763
01:22:17,759 --> 01:22:22,719
I'm doing what I think can
get us that vote in Congress.

1764
01:22:22,719 --> 01:22:26,224
if I'm wrong I will be
the first volunteer on

1765
01:22:26,224 --> 01:22:30,118
your on your docket that
is my mentality about it

1766
01:22:30,118 --> 01:22:33,448
and I I get it if people
don't love that I'll

1767
01:22:33,448 --> 01:22:36,778
give you an example I
got hired by a New York

1768
01:22:36,779 --> 01:22:40,791
group that wanted to save
Republicans in Nebraska

1769
01:22:40,791 --> 01:22:44,899
that were anti-death penalty
Nebraska has a unique

1770
01:22:44,899 --> 01:22:48,095
legislature which are
unicameral one house and

1771
01:22:48,095 --> 01:22:51,800
they're all nonpartisan so
these races were all death

1772
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:55,438
you know anti death penalty
Republicans versus pro

1773
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:58,011
death penalty Republicans and
they were all Republicans

1774
01:22:58,011 --> 01:23:01,279
they were horrible on
every other issue and but

1775
01:23:01,279 --> 01:23:06,095
you know it's kind of like
well looking at the choices

1776
01:23:06,095 --> 01:23:10,859
choices, this person sucks
and this person sucks less,

1777
01:23:10,859 --> 01:23:13,136
okay, that's okay with me.

1778
01:23:13,136 --> 01:23:15,819
And, you know, so it's, again,
representing their community.

1779
01:23:15,819 --> 01:23:20,131
It's, you know, figuring
out is that a choice that's

1780
01:23:20,131 --> 01:23:22,037
okay with your values.

1781
01:23:22,037 --> 01:23:24,692
And, you know, I mean, even
if I was there myself,

1782
01:23:24,692 --> 01:23:27,279
I don't think I'd agree
with 100% of my own vote.

1783
01:23:27,279 --> 01:23:31,636
So, you know, so
you do your best.

1784
01:23:31,636 --> 01:23:34,296
And then I just want
to add this question.

1785
01:23:34,296 --> 01:23:35,019
OK, yeah.

1786
01:23:35,019 --> 01:23:36,095
I'll just wait.

1787
01:23:36,095 --> 01:23:39,037
I want to make sure we have
our next questions go forward

1788
01:23:39,037 --> 01:23:39,719
in the back.

1789
01:23:41,519 --> 01:23:46,238
It's really nice to hear
something about party structures

1790
01:23:47,319 --> 01:23:48,957
going up and everything.

1791
01:23:48,957 --> 01:23:53,158
I have a saying that in Seattle,
there are only two people that

1792
01:23:53,158 --> 01:23:54,337
vote in Seattle.

1793
01:23:54,337 --> 01:23:56,158
A million people could
vote in Seattle,

1794
01:23:56,158 --> 01:23:59,618
but I don't believe there
are only two major voters--

1795
01:23:59,618 --> 01:24:02,198
The Stranger and Seattle Times.

1796
01:24:02,198 --> 01:24:06,421
So when we talk about door
knocking or party structure or

1797
01:24:06,421 --> 01:24:10,296
even policies and everything,
how do you break?

1798
01:24:10,296 --> 01:24:14,319
And it's something I want you
all to address with boldness.

1799
01:24:14,319 --> 01:24:16,997
You know, it's not wrong
to call out the media.

1800
01:24:16,997 --> 01:24:20,853
How do you now tell people
to break away from the two

1801
01:24:20,853 --> 01:24:22,779
major voters in Seattle?

1802
01:24:22,779 --> 01:24:24,987
Because they play a
major role in wherever

1803
01:24:24,987 --> 01:24:26,814
we have it in Olympia,
or wherever we have

1804
01:24:26,814 --> 01:24:29,676
in City Council, wherever
we have in King County.

1805
01:24:29,676 --> 01:24:35,256
How do you address that
now in this day and age?

1806
01:24:35,259 --> 01:24:36,537
- Woo boy.

1807
01:24:36,537 --> 01:24:37,337
- Great question.

1808
01:24:37,337 --> 01:24:39,399
- Sure, I'll do it.

1809
01:24:41,319 --> 01:24:44,997
Look, I think this
goes back to me

1810
01:24:44,997 --> 01:24:48,386
to a point I made before,
which is that borrowed power

1811
01:24:48,386 --> 01:24:50,238
is always just borrowed power.

1812
01:24:50,238 --> 01:24:54,210
And as a progressive community,
we've been too lazy in letting

1813
01:24:54,210 --> 01:24:58,259
other people make decisions that
we need to make for ourselves.

1814
01:24:58,259 --> 01:25:02,551
We've been too complacent in
letting single newspapers,

1815
01:25:02,551 --> 01:25:06,399
cheat sheet, be a replacement
for knocking on doors

1816
01:25:06,399 --> 01:25:09,978
and raising money and
talking to our neighbors.

1817
01:25:09,979 --> 01:25:12,877
And, you know, is this
the year that breaks?

1818
01:25:12,877 --> 01:25:14,658
I have no idea.

1819
01:25:14,658 --> 01:25:19,064
I will just say like at
the end of the day voters

1820
01:25:19,064 --> 01:25:23,818
vote not papers and yeah
like typically it's made

1821
01:25:23,819 --> 01:25:27,756
a big impact I'll go to
the mat and see if we can

1822
01:25:27,756 --> 01:25:31,694
if we can change that you
know and I just think

1823
01:25:31,698 --> 01:25:35,078
my pitch to everyone is
like take over your own

1824
01:25:35,078 --> 01:25:38,460
agency and this isn't
about The Stranger like

1825
01:25:38,460 --> 01:25:41,139
Like, The Stranger
is whatever it is.

1826
01:25:41,139 --> 01:25:42,944
To me, this is about
everything that I've been

1827
01:25:42,944 --> 01:25:43,800
trying to talk about.

1828
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:46,591
Like, as a Democratic
Party, I think we have

1829
01:25:46,591 --> 01:25:48,296
taken too many shortcuts.

1830
01:25:48,296 --> 01:25:51,524
We have just been like, in some
ways, it's like, I want to

1831
01:25:51,524 --> 01:25:54,756
complain about the decisions
that labor unions make,

1832
01:25:54,756 --> 01:25:57,417
but I haven't put my
money where my mouth is.

1833
01:25:57,417 --> 01:26:00,015
Like, I'm still relying
on their money to win

1834
01:26:00,015 --> 01:26:01,279
any race in this city.

1835
01:26:01,279 --> 01:26:04,479
So like who do I who
am I to complain?

1836
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:07,069
At the hand that feeds me
right until I put my money

1837
01:26:07,069 --> 01:26:09,658
where my mouth is and I try
to change it my damn self

1838
01:26:10,877 --> 01:26:12,916
And and I think that's
what this comes down to me

1839
01:26:12,916 --> 01:26:14,118
like it's a reckoning about

1840
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:18,020
There's a salience in the party
right now that we're we're

1841
01:26:18,020 --> 01:26:20,657
subservient to just a handful
of individual stakeholders

1842
01:26:20,657 --> 01:26:23,078
corporations individuals
unions special interests

1843
01:26:23,078 --> 01:26:25,452
If we want to change
that, it's going to be

1844
01:26:25,452 --> 01:26:26,639
a lot of work to do it.

1845
01:26:26,639 --> 01:26:30,814
But I think the upside is, the
place I want to end personally,

1846
01:26:30,814 --> 01:26:34,069
is I am not interested in
a party that is pushing

1847
01:26:34,069 --> 01:26:37,577
for 218 votes in the House
or 50 votes in the Senate.

1848
01:26:37,578 --> 01:26:41,145
I want a party that can
win 60 votes in the Senate

1849
01:26:41,145 --> 01:26:43,158
and 280 votes in the House.

1850
01:26:43,158 --> 01:26:47,867
I am pushing for a party that
is stronger than one decision

1851
01:26:47,867 --> 01:26:51,658
maker. I don't want it to be
one point of failure that if

1852
01:26:51,658 --> 01:26:54,265
one individual political
director says, oh, I

1853
01:26:54,265 --> 01:26:57,649
don't know, I've got other
priorities this year, that

1854
01:26:57,649 --> 01:26:59,229
suddenly we can't act.

1855
01:26:59,229 --> 01:27:00,893
To me, that's nonsense.

1856
01:27:00,893 --> 01:27:04,143
And I think we've all just
called the question on

1857
01:27:04,143 --> 01:27:05,569
our own complacency.

1858
01:27:05,569 --> 01:27:08,578
Maybe we're satisfied
with it and we prefer to

1859
01:27:08,578 --> 01:27:12,009
just diffuse our
responsibility to somebody

1860
01:27:12,009 --> 01:27:15,796
else. I think ultimately
this is a real test of that

1861
01:27:15,796 --> 01:27:16,689
and we'll see.

1862
01:27:16,689 --> 01:27:19,287
And I think that's a
question that Seattle

1863
01:27:19,287 --> 01:27:21,529
is going to grapple
with and who knows.

1864
01:27:21,529 --> 01:27:23,886
In any other city I work
in, this wouldn't even be

1865
01:27:23,886 --> 01:27:24,475
a question.

1866
01:27:24,475 --> 01:27:27,270
There's no powerful force
like this in Portland,

1867
01:27:27,270 --> 01:27:28,243
Oregon, right?

1868
01:27:28,243 --> 01:27:29,886
But it is something that's

1869
01:27:29,886 --> 01:27:30,711
unique here.

1870
01:27:30,711 --> 01:27:32,939
And I like to think
Seattle's not like

1871
01:27:32,939 --> 01:27:35,689
so exceptional that it's
unique that one paper

1872
01:27:35,689 --> 01:27:38,921
will always have power, or
the other paper will always

1873
01:27:38,921 --> 01:27:39,652
have power.

1874
01:27:39,652 --> 01:27:42,279
I think it can conform
to the same political

1875
01:27:42,279 --> 01:27:44,113
realities that literally
every other city in

1876
01:27:44,113 --> 01:27:45,179
this country conforms to.

1877
01:27:45,179 --> 01:27:48,259
And there's also like four
newspapers in Portland, you

1878
01:27:48,259 --> 01:27:51,404
know, like why do they have
more for half the population,

1879
01:27:51,404 --> 01:27:52,679
which is kind of crazy.

1880
01:27:52,679 --> 01:27:56,527
But, you know, thinking about
that question and it's very

1881
01:27:56,527 --> 01:28:00,854
interesting because, you know,
I don't know about legislature,

1882
01:28:00,854 --> 01:28:04,301
but for city council and
mayor, if you didn't get the

1883
01:28:04,301 --> 01:28:08,067
Seattle Times or The Stranger,
you didn't get through, you

1884
01:28:08,067 --> 01:28:11,752
know, for the large extent
with one notable exception,

1885
01:28:11,752 --> 01:28:13,595
which was Teresa Mosqueda.

1886
01:28:13,595 --> 01:28:15,729
Right. And and she
beat that system.

1887
01:28:15,729 --> 01:28:16,863
And do you know why?

1888
01:28:16,863 --> 01:28:19,563
Because she actually ran
a real campaign, you

1889
01:28:19,563 --> 01:28:22,613
know, and she had real
support and real organizing.

1890
01:28:22,618 --> 01:28:25,938
I mean, she came out of labor
and was an amazing labor

1891
01:28:25,938 --> 01:28:29,024
union organizer and she
busted her ass and did it

1892
01:28:29,024 --> 01:28:30,877
and came out of that primary.

1893
01:28:30,877 --> 01:28:33,685
And I have a lot of I have a
lot of respect for her and

1894
01:28:33,685 --> 01:28:35,537
admiration for her for doing it.

1895
01:28:35,537 --> 01:28:38,662
But by and large, the
Politburo on the left and

1896
01:28:38,662 --> 01:28:42,198
Politburo on the right have
picked our candidates.

1897
01:28:42,198 --> 01:28:44,438
And sometimes in the
general, one wins.

1898
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:45,337
Sometimes the other wins.

1899
01:28:45,337 --> 01:28:47,179
And I think it's
a little absurd.

1900
01:28:47,179 --> 01:28:47,978
But you're right.

1901
01:28:47,978 --> 01:28:49,787
And no other major
city in America does

1902
01:28:49,787 --> 01:28:50,917
this exist except here.

1903
01:28:53,296 --> 01:28:55,018
And I think that
takes us to time.

1904
01:28:55,018 --> 01:28:57,818
So everyone, can we give it
a hand to Steven and Dean?

1905
01:28:57,819 --> 01:28:58,819
Thank you.

1906
01:28:58,819 --> 01:28:59,537
Thank you.